Topic: KNCMiner and their 'magic' SHA256 alogorithm - page 4. (Read 8798 times)

OK, 2 problems:

1/ they can't get a better/other algo, it's SHA256 or nothing.

2/ they're a joke on the BUSINESS side. (relates to false claim about 1/).

They're full of it, period. This is not about the SHA256 algo, it's about their continuous BS. ORSoC is not making those stupid claims, it's all KNCMINER's doing (which brings me again to the fact that ORSoC is NOT KNCMINER, so don't confuse the two, even if they are in close ties - it'll be KNCMINER losing your money, if).

Get the head OUT of the tech, it's only a small part of it. It's the business that will screw you (if).

For the record, there are only 2 Saturns for Bitcoinorama KNCFANS one for and one for me. Joking aside jajajajaa.

Never trust or distrust someone because of their nationality.

P.D Saab finally closed in 2012. Nokia had the good fortune of partnering with Microsoft to use WindowsPhone. They could amputate the gangrenous limb. Because Symbian was very good 8 years ago but was obsolete.

This way I see this whole thing right now is as follows:

1. KNC / OrSoC presented their concept with so much relative transparency and a base level of credibility that they were embraced, if for no other reason than in the Land of the Blind, the One Eyed Man is king.

2.  Some of the claims they've made trigger red flags in some of the Old Pros.  Often, old Pros are right about their instincts and what happens when things are presented that are out of synch with their knowledge and experience.  But not always.  Some of the Old Pros at IBM mocked the ridiculous personal computer as nothing but a Heathkit without the fun of building it oneself.

3.  There's a presumption that foundries see the bitcoin asics as a pain in the ass, and will piss on that business from a high distance.  While their meat and potatoes is the 3 million chips to go into the new Sunbeam toaster, which retails for 28 bucks,  there might well be suits upstairs who will pay attention, even to promoter-types who think ASIC is Latin for ASAP, when those guys offer to pay them 28 bucks a chip for a small run.

The bottom line is we don't know.  Kids are filled with grand schemes and irrational exuberance.  Often they don't think it thought or fail to acknowledge the small stuff that can kill a big project.  That could well be the case here.  

I wish they weren't taking pre-orders; Sweden has some vibrant financing, and some world-class product comes out of Scandinavia, from Saab to Nokia to ABB down to companies micro-sized relative to those.  

If people hadn't been so damned blinded by the greed that allowed this scammable vendor/customer relationship to spawn in the first place, this whole environment would be in a lot better place than it is today.      

Given that neither of the naysayers in this thread will admit that there is more than one way to implement an algorithm (and thusly demonstrate they are not engineers and in no position to judge KNC or OrSoc), the only thing that will satisfy them is a free fully operational Saturn from KNCMiner.
Lots of luck. 

Like I said, the Mars miner is fact number 1 (on the positives, I won't recap the negs again, read the 120+ pages). Can't wait for more facts (& less wishful thinking/excuses/speculation).

I do not want you to think I'm a KNCFAN, I was in orsoc, Mars was off and connected to the laptop. The watt meter is put 0w as logical.
When launched it takes a few seconds to be operating the 6FPGA of each PCB. Cgminer once operated 5.8-6.1 ghs with 400-450w. I do not remember exactly
I thought may be a video or any ruse. Logical doubt, if you buy something.
As in BTCguild were mining told that they should go on the web and should do the login.
I must say that out of respect look away when they placed the password. (Reflection type of informatic)
In a few seconds by pressing F5 updated one worker 5300-6300mhas. I do not remember exactly

I'm not saying it can not be a scam. Everything can be a scam to a marriage of years.
But if I have defrauded it worked very well.

Not prevent him to travel to Sweden to collect the debt

Meh... their magic SHA256 algo is just one in a number of false claims.

Maybe the shills could come up with "factuals" instead of just "shilling"... It's hard as it is to try and stay unbiased with all the BS flying around.

So far the only thing that's staying true is they have a prototype that has been shown to mine (well, they showed a laptop, but I'll take the word of the people present at the open day it wasn't faked - and that's a big assumption). What other "facts" are there?

There will always be haters and people who argue for the sake of arguing. There are also people who are convinced that the way they see things is the only right way to see them and won't give up trying to convince others of the same.

Why are you so cranky?

With due respect, you came at this the wrong way, IMO.  

Your theme is that some of the statements they've made around design strategy, as well as about supply logistics, don't seem to hold water.

That's a valid -in fact, vital- criticism of a tech startup vendor.  But to come in by accusing them of lying about the efficacy of their core process implementation in effect derailed your own thread, and covered an important professional opinion with a veneer of troll-like bullshit.

Sorry, the point of your post is?

At what point did you decide the debate had finished?

How does this differ from their statements? Were you taught the meaning of percentages at school? Have you ever done any real engineering?

Another contributor was right - who gives a f*** for anything but the hash rate?

Except, possibly, if there is misinformation about one major thing, how can you trust anything you are told? For example, delivery times.

The more I hear about this project - mostly from it's 'believers' - the more I worry. Not for me, but for the hard working people that have bought into it (literally) and not been given the full facts about what might happen to their money and expectations. They deserve better.

I have nothing to gain or lose whether KNC succeed or fail. But I'd give any other company exactly the same criticism if they came out with shoddy or false specifications, misinformation or unachievable goals.

After all, I thought one of the major purposes of this forum was to watch each others' back? I'll bet you that with the response this post has had there won't be too many chancers offering their 'asics' anytime soon unless they have a proper ,documented plan.

+1

And how does this differ from their statements? I'm pretty sure they have never given any explicit details except basically "we go it faster" which if correctly implemented they very well might. I think most people (I hope) understood they didn't actually claim to be taking shortcuts in solving the actual crypto. I for one give absolutely zero shits about exactly HOW a miner reaches a certain hash speed, just that it does it.

Could it be that even Orsoc KNC do not know their work, and want to sell vaporware.

But you believe that a company like Altera with 40% market share & 2000 Million$ in 2011 sell VAPORWARE
HardcopyV product offers:
Design Environment

Prototype your system with Stratix V FPGAs to prepare your system for production, prior to ASIC design handoff. Hand off your completed design to Altera's HardCopy Design Center to implement the low-cost, low-power, pin-compatible HardCopy V devices.

Lower Risk and Total Cost

Working in partnership with Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Ltd. (TSMC) has proven to be very beneficial in the production of high yielding, highly manufacturable, and highly reliable HardCopy ASICs. In conjunction with the ability to prototype your designs in Stratix V FPGAs, Altera’s design methodology delivers lower risk and total cost.
Copy from: http://www.altera.com/devices/asic/hardcopy-asics/hardcopy-v/hcv-index.jsp


My question as I put here a few days ago.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2508262
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2511055

But still do not know why they said "A" and now is "B". When I told them it is better Stratix. They said save costs. Now the costs are not important?
I guess now enough money for a more expensive process

Sorry if you thought I laughed at your profession. Nothing is

With all due respect, there is no place in my profession for deception, exaggeration, poor design, dubious methodology and 'try it and hope for the best' attitude.

Or they wanted to build the boards, case, cooling solutions and integrate all of it (and test it) in parallel while OrSoc builds the ASIC (which is probably pin-out compatible with the FPGA). Yes, laying out an ASIC is different than laying out an FPGA and that is probably why they went with a serious ASIC design house instead of trying to do it themselves. However, there are quite a few "tricks" to be done while setting up a 128 stage pipeline be it on ASIC or on FPGA.

Shit, hit the wrong key.

To continue on my response;

3. I could not believe my eyes when I read that the plan is to simply solder the prototype chips straight
    onto the board without testing. This is an unbelievably stupid plan; any engineer worth their salt
    would be horrified. In asic design there is a well worn path for carrying out evaluation of new chips,
    and this isn't it. It's amateurish and totally unworkable. Plus, it suggests that they have no actual
    test strategy or production test program. But hey, who needs it? (Intel, AMD ............)

    But if you trust your thousands of dollars to these guys, good luck to you.

As regards some of the other comments about semantics, my initial post was about the fact that KNC were misleading potential customers by claiming they had something which they don't. It's dishonest, no
matter what spin you try to put on it. I've still not seen one solid piece of data from them or any of their
'fans' about their design architecture, die size or contingency plans if things go wrong, and if was giving
my money to them, these are not 'optional' facts.

What I did initially see was the specification of their Mars miner which seemed to be able to sold for less than a third of the price that the FPGAs alone within it cost. Bad marketing? Poor engineering? Voodoo?
Who knows, but if you want to be successful in building a complex device costing many hundreds of thousands of dollars in tooling costs, you'd better get your paperwork and specifications right.

The thought of these guys with millions of dollars of pre order money horrifies me - until I get some
straight answers at least.

But again, if you want to be a 'Believer', who am I to tell you otherwise? I've spent my entire
professional life dealing in facts, specifications and good solid engineering methodology. My 'belief'
in this system has always worked, and will continue to do so.

But greed blinds most people. Just look at what's happened to the financial fantasies of the BFL pre
order herd.

Sounds like the best they've done before is a 40nm hardcopy.

Well, well. Seems my post has caused a little bit of debate and controversy.

In answer to some of what I assume are the adolescents among us, I did read the visit 'report' to KNC and I can only surmise it was written by someone who is a True Believer, much like those misguided souls who believe in UFO's and related claptrap. From the little factual content presented, there emerge further disturbing facts:

1. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the asic industry would tell you that silicon foundries are not
    at all excited at the prospect of possibly a few hundred k asics for 28nm. To suggest they will
    'compete' to get KNC's business is a very quaint idea, but totally untrue. KNC will have to convince
    a foundry to give them access to the technology, and it's not a dead cert that they will. I know for a
    fact that foundries have been 'plagued' (their words, not mine) by people calling them up with plans
 for
    Bitcoin asics,who don't seem to have the first idea what is actually involved.

2. Designing an FPGA is totally different from designing an asic. I'm not going to go into the details, just
    ask anyone who works in the industry. To think that you just take the same HDL code and out pops
    your asic is not the case. Any competent engineering graduate could write the HDL for a SHA256
    engine in an afternoon, and put together a compiled FPGA solution in a few days, at most.

    To do the same in an asic is a totally different ball game. Clearly the lads at KNC either have never
    done this,or are making some potentially fatal assumptions.