Topic: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June - page 18. (Read 91301 times)

I think I actually know the answer to this, but if they have said they don't want to specify I'll respect that.

Daggeteo, marvellous work, thank-you so very much for taking the time to do that!

I'm going to try and grab a flight on Monday when I get home tonight. The issue is being able to grab one to Skavsta that I can realistically catch once the tubes start running. It's impossible for me to catch a 6am Gatwick flight from the other side of London, so fingers crossed!

So based on what has been said/typed up and subsequent to digestion, if anyone has anything they want asked or expanded upon (KS especially), hit me up a PM!!

Note: feel free to bounce questions among yourselves based upon what you now know, and what your interpretation of events now are, but if they aren't sent to me as a PM, don't hold me accountable for not asking. Also I aim to post whatever list of Q's I have on Sunday for final review by you (plural), ok?

I forgot where I read it but it seems ORSoC had an agreement with eASIC, however their website only hints at 28nm being released "soon", so I don't think they are the ones.

Looking at the Mars proto, and wondering why they would use the underpowered Altera Cyclone FPGA (150MH/s), I think they might be using the Altera QuintusII/Hardcopy V "process". It's based on the Stratix FPGA, but I don't think it would be a stretch from the Cyclone.

KNCMINER said that they only needed to program the FPGA and the ASIC suppliers would do the rest. That is very much what Altera does and Altera has had a 28nm process since 2010 and is a TSMC partner (they also help TSMC test-drive the various nodes).

So, based on that (however little), I would say they're working with Altera for the ASICs. Now, who will be doing assembly, I don't know...

How far are they with the chip design?

Do they have RTL? Tape-out?
What is the hash rate gonna be for the chip?

Or are they planning to start after they recieve the money from the pre-orders?

+1

Yes good work. Thanks.

Hasn't convinced me to invest at this time but I really didn't think it would. I think I'll wait to see how this all pans out.

No, it is either TSMC or Global foundries. They are the two companies who have the capability to do this. KNCminer did not want to specify which one of those two that they are using for commercial reasons.

I gather they do the chips themselves

I am not an expert, however I know something of the process.

First off, there seems to be a "feel" in the bitcoin community that ASIC's are magical, new, crazy machines. They are not. What's new is adapting them to this specific application.

So, yeah, the ASIC layout should be almost the same as the FPGA layout. Using FPGA's to prototype is nothing new either.

Also, given that ASIC chips are used in a wide variety of things, they don't have to reinvent the wheel or even do a full mask. There might be some technological gains from doing this from the ground up, but for this sort of application (essentially doing one calculation over and over again) the gain is severely outweighed by the cost. Basically the engineering work is already done aside from the embedded application. Making the mask is expensive, not groundbreaking.

ORSoC already does 28nm ASIC chips. They just need the current team to do the last couple of layers over an existing design. This is not trivial, but as Yifu has already demonstrated, it's within the knowledge and capabilities of talented amateurs. ORSoC is not an amateur group.

The biggest likely hangup isn't adapting the design, it's getting it to their fabricator on time, and hoping that the fab doesn't stick their thumbs up their asses. I have not read daggateo's report yet, but I have little doubt about KNC and ORSoC being able to engineer the thing and going to fab in the timeline they are aiming for. I do have some doubts about a major fab giving them the priority they need. But again, they are an established company and therefore have more clout than most of the people currently doing bitcoin ASIC miners. I would say a month past their target is reasonable, two months even would be ok. It is highly unlikely that much will have changed by then, given the track record of the other players. The Avalon chips are about the only wildcard in that. I can't see BFL getting up to steam that fast, if ever, and the rest of the builders that I am aware of are either on a similar schedule or are awaiting the Avalon chips.

While as KS keeps pointing out, KNC is NOT ORSoC, they are nevertheless directly affiliated and do have some skin in the game, even if only reputation. But rep means a lot.

I am unfortunately not able to order at this time myself, but if I were I'd take this gamble. And I am a fairly conservative man.

Good work!

(KNCMINER *still* gave erroneous answers to funding and equity. Whatever...  )

I couldn't have put it better.
Anyone thinking anything else is quite simply deluding themselves. You are rolling the dice, if you don't know that you really shouldn't be "investing" in this.

Correction: some ORSoC *people* are part of KNCMINER, not ORSoC as a company. Different implications.

Forgive me if this has already been clarified;

Where is assembly and testing taking place?  
Is shipping directly from test site?

Cheers,
Kev

What engineering talent BFL had/has? Is it comparable to Orsoc's?
How does going strait to production sound, can some hardware expert enlighten me please?

Thanks for the effort daggeteo. I've included a TL;DR in the post above, plus some other facts:

Hi folks,
Sorry for the wait but the meeting was around 2 hours and it takes a shitload of  time to process all questions and make it fairly clear what was said.

Hopefully this will answer some of your questions and help you form a better perception on whether KNCminer is the real deal or not, ie if they can do this.

Since I don't wish to bombard the forum with a crazy amount of text I've put it in a GDoc. Let me know if there are any issues.

Link - https://docs.google.com/document/d/15js8JsyHAiGoq_ELzx0hxG4xdA9ePJrhrc8y2bbWbRc/edit?usp=sharing

Ok, thanks for your speculation. I only stated FACTS.

And yes, I took the gamble too - but let's cut the wishful thinking and only give FACTS to those craving for info - ok?