Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 252. (Read 452224 times)

|| Bit's approach to 'valuation', opaque as it may be, is made with what I assume to be good intention. That said, intention may make a better paving stone on a road to some other place than profits if the facts are not clear.

I remember oh so well the dot com bubble where everyone said that regular business norms did not apply to the internet.... another altogether too well traveled road that we do not want to go down.

In a later, mature state of these investments we will see the standard metrics of 'regular' investments applied. To try and invent some new metric now is foolhardy. Better to make relative comparisons between the offerings and know, to the greatest extent possible, the track record of those involved. Owning several good companies in the cloud mining sector is the wisest move if you believe in this model IMO.

Disclosure: I own LRM shares (and others).

While I agree that 1BTC/Bond is a stretch, you can't compare Pre-ordering hardware to a PMB. The whole point of these PMBs is that you are buying them, getting PAID, and then hopefully selling them at the same price or more than you bought them.

You can't buy a machine, mine with it for X months, sell it back at the value you purchased it at or more.

That's the main difference, the price will price itself out based on dividends being paid and the risk of no one coming after you to rebuy that same bond for what you paid for it. Anyone purchasing at 0.22BTC obviously thinks that someone in the future will buy it for at least that.

I agree that +1 btc per bond is a stretch however as per Lab_Rats comments we should see the hash rate per bond increase with bond sales and BTC increases.

"The current estimate for the hashrate per bond to be paid out is over 600MH/s per bond based on current bond sales (after all hardware is received.) Subject to change with bitcoin price and further sales of bonds. (Updated: 08/28/2013)"

Lets hope lab_rat can push this past 1gh/bond with the latest price spike

Nice disclaimer, but why are you bothering with such ridiculous speculations? Your 'speculations' stretch credulity beyond reason.

If one 'bond' ends up representing 600MH (or is that 400MH ... so many numbers floating around here these days), that would mean that people would have to believe 600GH will be worth ~$143,000 (1.1btc/share, $130/btc, 1000 shares) to $228,800 (1.76btc/share). Is that really what you think based on your "various info, deductions and price to dividend ratios"?

Um, newsflash, but anyone can buy 600GH worth of October BitFury hardware for $12,000 right now. So if one can buy 600GH worth of hardware for $12,000, why would anyone buy a bond that is 15x-20x more expensive even at 600MH/bond (which it isn't even going to reach any time soon)? The answer is: they wouldn't.

Even at the current 0.22btc/share, LRM is already approaching 'overpriced' territory. Again, assuming 600MH/bond, 0.22btc/bond equates to $28,600 for 600GH ... more than 2x more expensive than the equivalent in BitFury hardware. And it can be argued that BitFury hardware is already overpriced compared to its competition.

I think you need a reality check. 0.22/share is already at the high end even assuming it had the full 600MH/share right now (which it won't for months) ... the continual rise in difficulty will continue to put downwards pressure on the value of these bonds.

You seem to have a vested interest in seeing these bonds go higher (pump and dump?), but I think we would all appreciate it if you play your games elsewhere and stop spreading FUD. People here trying to make informed decisions about buying, selling, and holding LRM bonds deserve better.

Lab Rat Mining bond price. Based on various info, deductions and price to dividend ratios...

Current week's average ~0.22btc

Speculation: ~December 1, 2013. Range, Low ~1.1btc, High ~1.76btc

Disclaimer: Even though I feel the numbers were fairly treated... this could, obviously, be very wrong.

The overpay day dividends was suppose to be ฿0.00083112. That same amount was overpaid.

The following week dividends dividends came out to ฿0.00066604 after some deduction to recoup the overpay. But he said the new hashing added no value for bad luck and not enough time hashing in the pool. So, what seems to have been taken out is  ฿0.00083112 - ฿0.00066604 = BTC0.00016508. That is almost exactly 1/5 the overpay amount. So, it looks like he is maybe planning to deduct 1/5th of the overpay each week for five weeks. Though, I thought it was going to be two weeks. Not sure.

Coming up, LRM will have had a full week at double that prior hash rate this week. So, that next week should come out to about roughly twice that dividend.
That is ฿0.00083112 x 2 = BTC0.00166224. Not accounting for one bump in difficulty perhaps.*

Deduct another 1/5th of the overpay amount, and you get an anticipated dividend next weekend of BTC0.00166224 - BTC0.00016508 = BTC.00149716.

I didn't look up what the difficulty was in the week the overpay value happened. If it made a 30% jump after that week, then maybe anticipate something closer to BTC0.00115166 (and this would mean deductions are not being made over five weeks, but maybe something sooner - which is what I thought it was going to be).

* Speculative bond price using a price-to-dividend ratio of x120 and x190 give a bond price in the range of: .199 to .315; if difficulty is a factor: .153 to .242
However, this should change sharply up once hardware starts flowing in. Some calculations done w/ reasonable assumed hardware delivery times gives a price that is multiples higher.
But you never know.

Well how much hashrate does he need for 100MH/Bond at current bonds sold? 4.2TH?

The Bulk of his order from Dave (Bitfury) well be coming near the end of this month I believe and he's going to continue acquiring hashrate from other sources till then.

If I remember correctly he has something like 30+ TH on order so 4.2 Shouldn't be that hard to obtain.

I don't think it has been ~8+ weeks yet. Are we in the 5th week or something now? I think we'll see the guarantied 100 MH/s in the next few weeks. Then hopefully the 600 MH/s a month or so after.

Can you confirm this Labrat?

LRM needs to start delivering 100 Mh/S per bond as advertised in the IPO as soon as possible,  we have had progress but we need to meet the advertised minimum hashrate per bond target soon

Now that Bitfury is shipping in the US is that promised hashing from Dave being added or is it already on from last week? Did we get in on any august orders or is it all for October?

Fair enough - my calculations said they didn't quite add up even considering all that and was curious to hear his thoughts, but as you say, maybe it all works out... Either way, the future's not looking too bad

He stated that the 1.3TH was only mining for around 1 Day of last week because of the 120 Confirmations per block, they also had some bad luck involved as well.

The calculations add up.

Now that we have a full week of that 1.3TH at the same difficulty we'll see a decent payout this coming week.

At the same time he just announced we would be at ~2TH by the end of this week/beginning of next week.

But where did the figure of 1 millions bonds come from?! Why not 1 billion?

Also, at the projected 600MH/s per bond, 1M shares would give LRM 600TH/s, which would mean that being valued at 1% of the total BTC would probably be quite cheap as it would control most of the network!

But the point is, where is this number coming from? It doesn't have any relation to the share-price... (there are currently 41,414 shares in circulation btw)

I can't help but think that this mining operation is slightly overpriced.

If every share cost reaches an estimated .25 BTC at 1 Million shares it would cost 250,000 BTC that is more than 1% of the total BTC that will ever be in existence!

I do doubt that any one person could sell all the shares at once and it is uncertain what the price of the stock will be or the number of stocks that will be issued but we're talking about a whole lot of BTC here.

I'm a latecomer to crypto-currencies I've only been active since Fall 2012 so I wonder what people think about this.

I have 6 shares of LabRatMining (I like this BTC farm)

Just a quick query on the hash rate per bond listed on the website:

You list 34.27MH/s/bond, but using the numbers 1.3TH/s, 41,414 bonds and 75% payout that only gives 23.55MH/s by my calculations. Which one of these needs changing?

Also, even taking the value of 23.55MH/s/bond and multiplying by the number of bonds I'm holding, and accounting for the 5 BTC held back for recouping the dividend mistake, I still seem to be coming up considerably short. Any idea why that might be?

Cool, TY!

Update on the site: http://www.labratmining.com/index.html

As per the cut in dividends, it will be 3 weeks ~5 a week to recover half of the ~30 double paid.

Great minds apparently think alike

Could you be a little more quantitative please? How much it would have been had there been no cuts, i.e. what percentage was actually paid? And also, when you say "a couple of weeks" does that mean that next week will be the last week with reduced dividends, or are you spreading it out further than that

I just think it's important that people know what to expect, especially as this is affects people's buying and selling decisions (and also, fwiw, this is not in keeping with what was announced previously about the way in which the double dividend situation would be dealt with, not that I'm really bothered, but some people might be...)

Great!

Can we get how much was taken out and how much is left?