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Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 89. (Read 1079974 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
A lot of people were talking about the thermal image when the pictures of the chips were posted.  I actually ran the numbers and came up with about 1W of cooling for the chip (Well, per side - but one side would be against the PCB)

Kind of amazing that they would make a mistake like this, something that was obvious to random people on the forum.

Not exactly.  The W/mm2 issue has to do with the size of the physical chip, not the size of the packaging.  There's only so much heat that can be removed from silicon for a given temperature gradient. For the packaging, you can use materials like copper or aluminum that have higher thermal conductivity then Silicon.

While the die size determines the heat transfer at the silicon junction, the size and more importantly type of package is also important as the thermal energy must pass through the package as well and the lower the thermal conductivity the higher the core die temp is going to reach.

Yeah, I was just pointing out the size of the packages is not the major determining factor.  A "chip scale" flip chip BGA package would probably be tiny but still be able to remove a lot of heat (from what I understand)

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The bizarre thing is that they reported using "QFP packaging, 44 pin, no exposed heat pad" for the size of the die that makes absolutely no sense @ >12W and is still hard to believe even at 5W.  They do make packages with exposed metal heat pad to improve heat transfer.  For example this is the Avalon chip.



It is strange. It would be helpful to have more information from them on why they decided to forgo the heat pad. Maybe they think the plastic will be able to dissipate the heat.  

The thermal conductivity of plastic is about 0.2-0.5 W/mK, compared to 200 for aluminum.

But, remember the 'm' stands for the thickness of the material, not the surface area.  If the package material is very thin, it can still conduct a decent amount of heat.

If you have a surface area of 1cm (0.0001m2), thermal conductivity of 0.5 W/mK, 50C temperature difference, and 0.25mm thick layer of plastic, you should be able to move

-(0.5W/mK) * 0.0001m2 * (50K / 0.0025m)
=-0.5W/K*0.0001m*(20000K/m)
=-0.5W/K*0.0001*20000K
=-0.5W*0.0001*20000
=-1W.

So, just one watt of cooling using those parameters. Maybe 2 watts if you count both sides.

It's also possible that they could be using a type of plastic with a higher thermal conductivity as well.

And, it's also possible my math could be completely off.  The units did cancel properly, but I could be doing that totally wrong Tongue

EDIT: A 12-inch wafer is 0.775mm thick, and a lqfp44 package is 1.2mm thick (not counting the pins).  So the thickness of the packaging should be 0.21mm on either side. But there could be other materials in there as well. If so, that should increase the amount of heat able to be emitted package a great deal.

Anyway, we'll find out in a few days what's actually possible.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
A LOT of promises are being made...

Agreed. And nothing of substance. Not surprised here.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
So an Advisory Board is going to be formed.  This is a very positive sign and if it happens could be just what the community needs in terms of information sharing.

it seems like he is willing to work with us. shame this didn't happen a few weeks ago - but a number of us have done well getting more shares..

Everything is not always at it seems.

Why doesn't the guy just prove his identity and whereabouts? He was able to take people's money for mining hardware, but can't give back any "good faith" information?

full member
Activity: 504
Merit: 102
CLEARSIGHT- THE #1 BLOCKCHAIN JOB PLATFORM
Samuele Noi.

Consider that about 3 people having a phone number in Italy have surname "Noi" (http://www.paginebianche.it/persone?qs=noi&dv=).
Pretty uncommon, isn't it?

That name sounds just plain fake.

Fake name!!!!

So no one cares about my last post where there is evidence showing that Fabrizio is using 'labcoin" forum name and Samuel Noi's name to sign forum posts?

http://pastebin.com/ECm7V0LT

Google translate - http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpastebin.com%2FECm7V0LT

legendary
Activity: 2786
Merit: 1031
Samuele Noi.

Consider that about 3 people having a phone number in Italy have surname "Noi" (http://www.paginebianche.it/persone?qs=noi&dv=).
Pretty uncommon, isn't it?

That name sounds just plain fake.

No one uses land line nowadays, and it's only one per house, only one name is listed.

That is not evidence.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Samuele Noi.

Consider that about 3 people having a phone number in Italy have surname "Noi" (http://www.paginebianche.it/persone?qs=noi&dv=).
Pretty uncommon, isn't it?

That name sounds just plain fake.

hahaha all chinese immigrants in phone book? Look under restaurants man!
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1808
Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
Ok... my take is that lots of promises were made but he couldn't deliver. On purpose? Maybe yes, maybe not. If you look at other ASIC companies they ALL had issues and delays too.

The reason for the poor communication and poor management? It's a SINGLE guy doing Labcoin as a side project. Is it wrong to do this as a side project? Maybe yes, maybe not.

Lots of promises were made... but the guy did show up. Late as usual, but he did.

So my veredict? I think before the chat there was a 5% chance of Labcoin turning things around, that chance is now 15%. But that's my opinion of course.

I think its more like 50%, the guy is going to send kit to the 7, he is willing to take on a board of shareholders & if he cant fix the issue through outsourcing he will reach out to the community, im buying more - Fuck it, 20TH is worth 5 X what we are @ now
hero member
Activity: 564
Merit: 508
Samuele Noi.

Consider that about 3 people having a phone number in Italy have surname "Noi" (http://www.paginebianche.it/persone?qs=noi&dv=).
Pretty uncommon, isn't it?

That name sounds just plain fake.
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 500
www.coinschedule.com
Ok... my take is that lots of promises were made but he couldn't deliver. On purpose? Maybe yes, maybe not. If you look at other ASIC companies they ALL had issues and delays too.

The reason for the poor communication and poor management? It's a SINGLE guy doing Labcoin as a side project. Is it wrong to do this as a side project? Maybe yes, maybe not.

Lots of promises were made... but the guy did show up. Late as usual, but he did.

So my veredict? I think before the chat there was a 5% chance of Labcoin turning things around, that chance is now 15%. But that's my opinion of course.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
let him talk and identify himself...

if he's serious and just got big problems with hardware then he's got nothing to worry about revealing himself.

reveal yourself and tell us where are you located..?

Would you let members view the boards and chips and try suggest how to save the situation.

Where are you and would you meet up with investors of Labcoin?  When and where?

Why only now do you folks actually try to verify identities and locations? After the fact...

There is a reason when you go in to take out a loan of a substantial amount from the bank that they take down your Full name, Copy of your ID (picture), SSN (or equivalent), address, job, references, etc.

So if you ever try to run they can find you.

Seems backwards how people operate online.

1. Invest

2. Get left hanging then try to do some due diligence.

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
I'd be correcting my name if I had mis-typed it.

So why didnt you, "gramma" Smiley
full member
Activity: 163
Merit: 100
ok, so seems almost clear that the "labcoin company"  lied and made lot of promises that never got fullfied.

Probably don't have anything besides about 7000btc + .. so ok u made a lot of money, now at least with half of it ,  just buy a bunch of miners,  put 50Th online so all the people who belived in this can get some % of roi back

We appreciate your effort!

Grazie
full member
Activity: 194
Merit: 100
Quote
[14:46] <+labcoin__> i am Italian
[14:46] <@radiumsoup> What is your actual name?
[14:46] <+labcoin__> Samuele Noi  

Uh huh. And s/he corrects other misspellings, such as the following:  

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<+labcoin__> Howard Wang did have a previous plan to leave for USA, Mr. Tatti is working at another company as well since Junge.
[14:45] <+labcoin__> June*

I'd be correcting my name if I had mis-typed it.

Quote
[14:48] <@radiumsoup> Have you proven your identity with burnside or anyone else who can vouch for you?
[14:48] <+labcoin__> Just Mr. Tatti did.

I bet.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
So hardware incoming before 16th October and a guarantee to repay over 50% of ipo price should project fail, which is >0.0005.

This means that the minimal value for these shares should be >0.0005  so they are currently undervalued.

Shouldn't be too long before the market catches up to this great news.

Decent divs by the middle of October means the project is pressing ahead with or without the naysayers.

Half you guys are just delusional at this point.  A "guarantee"?  Oh yes, because all of the other "guarantees" LC has made have been legitimate.  

Sometimes you just need a little faith and believe in your fellow human beings.  This Labcoin dude appears genuine so let's give him a chance to make things right.

This isn't a denomination of a religion.

You take on counter-party risk, you accept the risks. Simple as that.
hero member
Activity: 564
Merit: 508
Quote
<@radiumsoup> Are you Swiss or Chinese?
<+labcoin__> i am Italian
<@radiumsoup> What is your actual name?
<+labcoin__> Samuele Noi

Doubt the name is true
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
[21:28] <+labcoin__> yes, please start the process of nominating an advisory board to submit

this should go better than inactive mining version, at least this guy seems to be taking advice,

You're kidding right? Whatever is wrong with ActM, at least identities are real and you can speak to them on the phone. Ken has a plan, whether I agree with it or not, and has experienced third party engineers involved such as eASIC.

Labcoin, if not a scam, don't need an advisory board. They need a real board who make decisions, quickly and efficiently. Perhaps even a complete change of plan using remaining funds if the problems are not resolvable. An advisory board is absolutely pointless. It turned out that was effectively the way with ActM too but Labcoin are in a far worse position.

Right now, labcoin can't work without completely opening up, accepting all the problems, and effectively having a new management team. Immediately.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
So an Advisory Board is going to be formed.  This is a very positive sign and if it happens could be just what the community needs in terms of information sharing.

it seems like he is willing to work with us. shame this didn't happen a few weeks ago - but a number of us have done well getting more shares..

I just dumped my 100K+ shares at a massive loss.
I'm certain that Sam doesn't exist and even if he does, I don't feel comfortable with him in charge. After so many months he has not provided anything tangible!
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
Pics of boards hashing or gtfo. Seriously.. quit asking about gen 2 bullshit if they can't even prove their other shit. I was screaming this back at .0035.. ANYBODY AND I MEAN ANYBODY WHO PUTS ANY MONEY INTO THIS IS A COMPLETE JOKER. Now we are at .00035 on a spike. Looks like I've been right all along. And I'll say it again. Nothing has changed, it's actually gotten worse. This WILL GOTO 0 mark my words.

Can't wait for him to be out of time and leave on the Q and A of the company he owns.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
A LOT of promises are being made...

Unfortunately with mostly vague timelines. This feels like it's just a pet project, not a primary focus. We shouldn't have to follow up on everything, yet I feel we're going to need to.
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