Topic: laughted at me when I said ASIC companies are manipulating you - page 4. (Read 4650 times)
P4man said 2 years ago that no one except the vendors and some early adopters would make a profit out of ASIC.
o the love in this thread.
BitCoin is a cryptocurrency designed around people getting fleeced for hardware and bitching on forums.
Seriously, people take stuff way too personally on forums and need to grow up. I had an issue with someone, I partially tarnished the name of one of my business partners (since he receives all our hardware), I resolved the issue privately and removed my overreactions from the forum. If the height of BTC today is threads like this we're all fucked.
o the love in this thread.
Really sucks how we've gone through most of 2013 and most people still don't have ASIC aside from ASICMiner's overpriced USB sticks. A few centralized hands have been grabbing up most of the BTC this year. Sad.
What exactly is the purpose of all this nonsense? To prove to everyone you were right about something? Does this give you some kind of satisfaction in your life that cannot be obtained through normal methods? If not, is your righteousness supposed to help others in some way now? If so, how? And if not, I ask you again, what is the purpose of this entire thread?
the point of this thread is I still cant believe the shit and humiliation are people willing to take just to have the chance to get in this rally, in the other hand we forget that these companies would treat us different if we valued our selves.
you put a Pre-order and your faith and money (without your pre-order they cant do shit), then they delay, lie, and treat you us shit like they are doing everyone a favor.
and when I try to talk about it about it everyone comes here and start trolling me, you are the one who has been trolled.
when you get your hardware (if you get it) you will mine with it to prepare to buy the next generation, you will never make a profit this way, because there will be always a newer tech and you will have to upgrade to it .
tldr: qq why does no one on the internets care what I think boohoo
What exactly is the purpose of all this nonsense? To prove to everyone you were right about something? Does this give you some kind of satisfaction in your life that cannot be obtained through normal methods? If not, is your righteousness supposed to help others in some way now? If so, how? And if not, I ask you again, what is the purpose of this entire thread?
the point of this thread is I still cant believe the shit and humiliation are people willing to take just to have the chance to get in this rally, in the other hand we forget that these companies would treat us different if we valued our selves.
you put a Pre-order and your faith and money (without your pre-order they cant do shit), then they delay, lie, and treat you us shit like they are doing everyone a favor.
and when I try to talk about it about it everyone comes here and start trolling me, you are the one who has been trolled.
when you get your hardware (if you get it) you will mine with it to prepare to buy the next generation, you will never make a profit this way, because there will be always a newer tech and you will have to upgrade to it .
LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.
LOL! You dumb shit.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2341763
And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.
I remember you
Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz
see the deference between us, I am a man of logic... and I do not beg for money I work hard to earn it. and I want to wisely invest it
And where does it say I'm begging, so fucking fail. It is a public address listed to be public, all my BUSINESS activity is paying for college. Not everyone has such a feeble mindset to beg.
I have a 1M business but any way here is my address I need to pay for college, what do you call that ?
Do you know how much a masters in Eng and a world class MBA costs?
What exactly is the purpose of all this nonsense? To prove to everyone you were right about something? Does this give you some kind of satisfaction in your life that cannot be obtained through normal methods? If not, is your righteousness supposed to help others in some way now? If so, how? And if not, I ask you again, what is the purpose of this entire thread?
The title sounds like he is crying. QQ.
LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.
LOL! You dumb shit.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2341763
And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.
I remember you
Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz
see the deference between us, I am a man of logic... and I do not beg for money I work hard to earn it. and I want to wisely invest it
And where does it say I'm begging, so fucking fail. It is a public address listed to be public, all my BUSINESS activity is paying for college. Not everyone has such a feeble mindset to beg.
I have a 1M business but any way here is my address I need to pay for college, what do you call that ?
Do you know how much a masters in Eng and a world class MBA costs?
What exactly is the purpose of all this nonsense? To prove to everyone you were right about something? Does this give you some kind of satisfaction in your life that cannot be obtained through normal methods? If not, is your righteousness supposed to help others in some way now? If so, how? And if not, I ask you again, what is the purpose of this entire thread?
The title sounds like he is crying. QQ.
That is for sure!!! it goes too far.
LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.
I cant agree with you anymore !!!
Totally agree with you, did then, did now.
Pricing affects the desire to recoup NRE and have sufficient means of production, distribution, marketing and customer service as well as the standard business requirements. Beyond that it is about making a profit.
Pricing affects the desire to recoup NRE and have sufficient means of production, distribution, marketing and customer service as well as the standard business requirements. Beyond that it is about making a profit.
What exactly is the purpose of all this nonsense? To prove to everyone you were right about something? Does this give you some kind of satisfaction in your life that cannot be obtained through normal methods? If not, is your righteousness supposed to help others in some way now? If so, how? And if not, I ask you again, what is the purpose of this entire thread?
I wonder if anyone went into ASIC manufacturing/sales thinking it was a long-term investment. I mean... after the first batches, either BTC price needs to go through the roof, or the components need to be immediately available for shipping and at least 5x as powerful at the same price (or some lesser combination of the two).
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
Terrahash.
With a 2-4 week lead-in assuming they have chips (I have no idea, I stayed away from ASICs), there's virtually 0% chance of recovering investment without the price of Bitcoin soaring - but if you're factoring in a price increase, you may's well just buy the coins straight.
(Or I screwed up on the maffs, or there's a more cost-efficient or power-efficient model than the first one I clicked on - very possible. This also changes a slight bit if you have free or near-free electricity, but it's still almost as certain the initial investment never pays itself off, while you're taking on quite a bit third-party risk + time & effort.)
ETA: fixed all my screw-ups, I think.
I wonder if anyone went into ASIC manufacturing/sales thinking it was a long-term investment. I mean... after the first batches, either BTC price needs to go through the roof, or the components need to be immediately available for shipping and at least 5x as powerful at the same price (or some lesser combination of the two).
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
Terrahash.
I wonder if anyone went into ASIC manufacturing/sales thinking it was a long-term investment. I mean... after the first batches, either BTC price needs to go through the roof, or the components need to be immediately available for shipping and at least 5x as powerful at the same price (or some lesser combination of the two).
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
Maybe mining was just a diving board for them?
I can't take anyone on this forum seriously if:
A) They have that many spelling/grammar errors while trying to sound intelligent, and
B) Whine and complain and take everything personally. This is the internet: no one gives two shits about your opinion.
A) They have that many spelling/grammar errors while trying to sound intelligent, and
B) Whine and complain and take everything personally. This is the internet: no one gives two shits about your opinion.
New candidate quote for sig.
Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:
Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now think that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?
Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now think that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?
Lol this ended the thread for me. /interest
LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.
LOL! You dumb shit.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2341763
And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.
I remember you
Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz
see the deference between us, I am a man of logic... and I do not beg for money I work hard to earn it. and I want to wisely invest it
And where does it say I'm begging, so fucking fail. It is a public address listed to be public, all my BUSINESS activity is paying for college. Not everyone has such a feeble mindset to beg.
I have a 1M business but any way here is my address I need to pay for college, what do you call that ?
LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.
LOL! You dumb shit.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2341763
And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.
I remember you
Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz
see the deference between us, I am a man of logic... and I do not beg for money I work hard to earn it. and I want to wisely invest it
And where does it say I'm begging, so fucking fail. It is a public address listed to be public, all my BUSINESS activity is paying for college. Not everyone has such a feeble mindset to beg.
few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/asics-are-over-priced-222770
well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one. What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.
I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital. think about this very well
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/asics-are-over-priced-222770
well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one. What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.
I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital. think about this very well
Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:
I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.
ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.
One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.
The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2343075ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.
One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.
The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.
Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now thing that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?
- just to point out something. I can "pre-order" this right moment a hardware at these prices now, and I could "pre-order" a hardware even than, and even when I didn't have enough funds, I could work something out somehow, If it just seemed logical and reasonable. but it didn't that time and still don't .
- and yes this is what I am trying to say here, if we didn't have these fools doing the rally "who will get their asic first" and threw a shit load of money, no matter how these vendors disrespect them and shit on them and play them around, they still go and "pre-order" than beg and lick their ass as a bonus.
this is why the ASICs are over priced, but again you are still not getting it right ?
Your point remains moot. You're living in a fantasy world. Not only were you not laughed at at the time, but nothing has changed to offer you any sort of vindication. The post that I made in your original thread remains just as relevant as it was at the time. If you don't have the money to invest, the potential ROI remains irrelevant.
If you do have the money to invest, you have to be smart about where you invest it. And, as with any investment, it's a risk, so you need to learn how to evaluate that, and make sure not to put all your eggs into one basket, or to invest in such a way that it would ruin you if things don't work out.
With your juvenile 'understanding' of these concepts, I feel that I should advise you that Bitcoin probably isn't your 'game'.
I'm envisioning you more as the 'fry cook' type.
I will really avoid going deeper on this one, you maybe know me but you do not know who I am, I was involved in many investment and projects, many were risky, and we had to decide if it was worth it, but we made the right choice almost always.
anyway to make a point here I will copy what gentarkin said, try to read it and think deeply about what he was trying to say, I am thinking the same way he does and have to agree with him
Quote
yeah, you are completely correct mmitech. Ive been stating nearly the same thing in several IRC chats for months now.
ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"
They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.
The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.
This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.
Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.
In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.
I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.
They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.
ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"
They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.
The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.
This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.
Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.
In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.
I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.
They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.
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