Topic: Ledger nano S or Trezor T? (Read 3335 times)

I hope they will finish shipping out pre-orders by the end of the next week. Did anyone here pre-ordered their new device? What batch are you in? I'm in the third batch. Magnetic dock is a nice thing to have but I have no idea where I should place it. What a pity that SD card features are not ready yet, hopefully they will release proper updates to enable such things as encrypting, labeling etc. According to TREZOR's twitter, regular sales should start in Q2 2018.

The preorders have already been sent out from what you can read up on their official company website
https://blog.trezor.io/first-trezor-model-t-dispatched-warehouse-shipping-preorder-86615b55ffd3

and they are telling of the shipments of those individuals to expect an email to be received once they are shipped to them just released about 2 hours ago
https://twitter.com/TREZOR/status/969233175783333889

I've been waiting for some weeks to see if finally Trezor starts selling Trezor T for anyone, but I see little movement with that. Now I'm doubting between keep waiting or buy Ledger Nano S now, since nano is available again.
Same question as the subject of the thread but a few months later. It annoys me that I finally decide to buy Ledger Nano and then they begin to sell Trezor T 

To be honest, it *had* to happen... Google are removing Chrome Apps, so it wasn't a long term solution...

I'm looking forward to checking them out, especially the mobile app... as unfortunately the "best" Android solution we currently have (Mycelium) has become a bit of a nightmare following their decisions to try and turn the wallet into an ad platform and/or dodgy Russian ICO marketing platform

It will be be nice to have an alternative.

Praise the Lord!  
I'm truly amazed and in fact (which is rare in my case) I'm not being sarcastic right now  


Cheers!


PS. a very good move, in my (modest) opinion.

Looks like you're getting your "one app to rule them all"

https://www.ledger.fr/2018/02/23/announcing-new-ledger-wallet-desktop-mobile-applications/

Yeah, sure, I'm mailing them back & forth for a week now to get an invoice, so I rather pass.

All good mate... as you say, just pointing out some things from *my* perspective

Wasn't meant to come across as definitive statements for why things are as they are, but more "I think it is like that because...". Honestly, the only people who REALLY know for sure are the Ledger peeps... maybe go hit them up directly and provide some feedback, I'm sure they appreciate the thoughts from a new user.

Thank you for your answer. The important thing here is to understand, that I was posting only MY PERSONAL OPINION as a brand new/fresh user (what I've stated in my original post, but maybe not clearly enough).
Anyway, I tend to value opinions of every other person, cause that's help me to understand other points of view and update (at some points) my assumptions in terms of better UX designing.

As I wrote, I'm not an engineer and probably there are solid TECHNICAL reasons this is constructed in a way it is now, I'm not arguing on that.
The only thing I'm arguing is the stupidity of some solutions that Ledger is imprinting here - and ONLY as a new user!
I also wrote (which you also pointed) that probably after weeks of using Ledger you just get use to it and treat it like a "normal". These were only my initial impressions.

Still, I beg to disagree in some points.

[Chrome apps]
You're right with cross-platforming, but then you've got a Ripple Wallet, which is... Windows native app, not Chrome app as others.

[separate apps]
Still believe that one "main" app, even if it will have separate "subprograms" for each wallet will benefit for UX/UI.

[additional buttons]
Yes, I still believe adding third button would benefit to UX.
There are several ways to implement it, f.e. there could be a button on the other side of the device, there could be a "flat" button on the side where the LCD is, and so on...
The whole device could be a little bit bigger to hold 3 or even 4 buttons (next, prev, OK, exit).

KEEP IN MIND:
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone to my point of view!
I just like to broaden my horizons through discussion and all of these opinions are only my subjective, personal opinion after using the gear for the first time for like 60 minutes for now

Have a good day and thank you for your input.

Most likely because it is already cross-platform... and easier to maintain ONE codebase than three.


Why? It helps keeps thing segregated. The number of people who seem to like loading up BCH addresses and sending BTC when on exchanges that have everything in one place would indicate that this may not be such a bad thing.

Also, it means from a development perspective, there are less likely to be issues when updating/adding new coins... you change something in BTC app you only need to test BTC app, you don't have to do regression testing on EVERYTHING to make sure you haven't screwed up another part of the codebase... makes testing faster and means they can release updates faster, which is good for users


No, it isn't... can you imagine the problems that might occur should you happen to start "managing" apps while the wallet is busy communicating with one?

Ensuring that only ONE process is using the device at a time is a good thing in my opinion.


I'm not sure I follow, you launch the wallet app in Chrome and it opens and waits. You then select the coin you want to use on the device and it "pairs" with the Chrome wallet app. Not really any different to connecting say your phone to a WiFi hotspot is it?


I'd say it was more about "space"... I think a 3rd button would have been a bit of a "tight" fit and could have lead to accidental clicking of buttons.

And, to be honest, I don't see the need for a third button... is it really that hard to click both buttons together as "select"?


Mind you, I've been using it for a while now... so it might just be an experience thing.

My Ledger did arrive (apart from all invoice stuff) and after initial problems I was able to initialize it, create a new wallet and secure it.

Question: I have several ERC20 tokens, currently hold in Coinomi mobile wallet.
I want to transfer them to Ledger - is there a way to scan/replicate/teleport/sweep my funds from Coinomi to Ledger OTHER than simply send tokens?
I'm asking, cause transfer fees for ERC20 are awfully expensive comparing to other coins...

Initial impression - it's a very complicated ecosystem with veeeeery bad UX/UI in my subjective opinion.
Chrome apps? Really? Why there is not a native Windows/Linux/Mac app with all the accounts holds together?
Separate apps for almost each coin is super counterintuitive.
Also, the system, when you have to close one "wallet" chromium app to launch manager for example is hyper stupid.
From UX point of view, also launching app is stupid - the app should initiate the connection, not the device itself - device should only confirm PIN/password.
Last but not least - why 2 buttons only? Was third button really so expensive to add?

I know, that human can get used to almost everything and maybe (I'm not engineer) there are some technical specification that force this kind of "stupidity" but for me, as a UX designer (I'm not bragging here, just trying to say, that I'm not a "rookie" in computer tech) and a normal user this is just plain stupid. And calling hardware wallets "easy" to use
- as I saw in some websites - are waaaaaaaaaaaaay exaggerated.

It is more important to buy the Trezor direct from the manufacturer. In theory, someone could load compromised firmware into a Trezor, repackage it, and sell it on to an unsuspecting buyer. Trezors come from the factory containing only a bootloader, forcing buyers to load fresh firmware. If the device arrived already loaded, then something is wrong! However, a clever hacker could still get around this protection.

The Ledger apparently performs a validity check with every use. Thus, you can have a higher confidence that the firmware isn't compromised. Plus, Ledger's use of a Secure Element (an I/O limited 2nd microcontroller) makes it a lot harder to hack.

Both devices can fall victim to social engineering. A crook could preload a seed and trick people into using it by including an "updated" manual. To protect against this, a user should spend time on the Trezor and Ledger sites and learn about how the device should work. If the received device acts differently, then something is wrong.

...

The two devices have vastly different approaches to security:

Trezor has security through an open source design. This has allowed "white hats" to discover flaws. Conversely, it also allows "black hats" to create malicious clones.

Ledger has security through obscurity. Nobody outside of Ledger knows fully what is going on inside the Secure Element. But what happens when the secret leaks...

I've ordered Ledger from "LedgerWallet" seller on Amazon.de, it's official account of Ledger France and so far (it doesn't arrived yet) I'm very dissapointed, as Ledger wrote me, that they don't raise VAT-EU invoice.
So, I'm waiting for another reply from Ledger itself and Amazon and I will probably return it and buy Trezor.

On amazon, it seems the ratings are a lot higher for the trezor vs nano ledger s.  Is there a reason for that?  The other thing i noticed is the price of the trezor has dropped a lot to where price is similar to nano ledger.  Is there reason why?  Heard lot of negative reviews of ppl buying ledger s through amazon saying its a fake or compromised one.  Is there a reason there hasn't been cases of this with the trezor?


So basically if you buy a nano ledger s, make sure you buy it from manufacturer.  But with trezor, it doesn't matter?  I haven't heard of cases where a compromised trezor was bought.  Anyone read about that?


Does anyone know if nano ledger s you could put a 25th word yourself?  So with trezor and the 25th word, it generates you 24 word seed.  Then you make your own 25th word which could be any word you want, no matter how many letters?  So if someone were to figure out your 24 word seed on trezor as it got exposed somehow, does that mean its basically impossible for them to access your trezor if you put a 25th word?  Like imagine your 25th word was something like
hewenttogetsomedrinksagain?

thank you so much, now it's clear! So, it's just important as the other words of the seed and i have to use it when i create a new wallet on electrum with a seed..

thank you too, European Central Bank

Exactly what happens when you load up your Trezor wallet with no passphrase... You get a completely different wallet generated.

The Trezor folks have a really good explanation about seeds and passphrases (and PINs) here: https://blog.trezor.io/seed-pin-passphrase-e15d14a0b546

This is why they talk about passphrases being a "25th word"... Like the other 24 words, it is absolutely 100% required to recreate your wallet if you use it to generate the wallet...

And like the other 24 words, if it is spelled incorrectly or missed out, you will be unable to recreate your original wallet.

not much. it certainly won't come up with your addresses if you don't have the 25th word. the 25th word unlocks all the other seed words. without it they're scrambled.

think of it like a seed password, not a wallet password.

thanks both for your reply, but i'm not sure to have understood well.. so i ask: what happened if i try to import my seed of trezor (without the passphrase) to electrum?

Yes, it does...


This option (available when you click the "Options" button on the seed display screen) allows you to effectively add a Passphrase to your Electrum seed. It is NOT the same thing as a wallet password (which is used to encrypt the data in the wallet file)

A passphrase have no equivalent in Electrum (check the post beloiw, my bad). Trezor give you 24 words, consider that passphrase as the 25 word that you can create yourself (can be anything) so even If someone have access to your seed, he can't do anything.