Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet)

SFR10

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Quote from: zherbert on August 28, 2023, 05:04:42 PM

Ironically the curved e-ink is only there to show a wallet label on the side so you can "stack" multiple devices together. I don't understand why anyone would need more than one device?

They don't but somehow, they've managed to master the art of convincing their customer of the need to purchase more than a single device of the same kind ^{[refer to some of the comments in their subreddit]}.
^{- They seem to enjoy taking advantage of their ignorant users (SMH)!}

Quote from: zherbert on August 28, 2023, 05:04:42 PM

https://app.news.ledger.com/e/es?s=1909208&e=658949&elqTrackId=efd74c1a1b7a40299e524d6e5aa03bea&elq=dac020f6a554448cb87c74246b90cb5a&elqaid=674&elqat=1

Quote
We planned to ship Ledger Stax earlier this year, but it has taken our display provider months more than they originally expected to ensure every screen matches our quality standards.
Wait, what?! I didn't know they had any
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Often when v1.0 products come to market, they're really v0.9. This delay with the screen has allowed us to deliver a product in Ledger Stax that is truly beyond v1.0 at launch.
IIRC, there was also a delay with Nano S Plus, but there were still a lot of issues at its launch!

NotATether

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Quote from: satscraper on August 29, 2023, 06:28:45 AM

If the given wallet is BIP85 compliant then there is no need to write down all bunch of the child mnemonics. All of them are derived from a single master SEED which makes mnemonic management to be very easy matter. For instance in the case of HW backup one has to write down solely the master mnemonic and be safe forever. BTW, Passport 2 has such functionality as generate multiple child SEEDs from master mnemonic while Ledger Stax has not.

I don't like BIP85 personally, because it overloads the "coin" part of the deviation number. Coin is supposed to be used (per BIP44) to identify the coin network. As someone who's making a wallet library, this means that I won't be able to use BIP85 and multi-coins at the same time.

Why didn't they just use "account", which is also hardened? Is that not it's intended purpose?

satscraper

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Quote from: NotATether on August 29, 2023, 02:53:29 AM

I fail to see how that's going to be useful since not only will it have the same effect of generating more addresses inside a single wallet, but there will also be more mnemonics to write down.

If the given wallet is BIP85 compliant then there is no need to write down all bunch of the child mnemonics. All of them are derived from a single master SEED which makes mnemonic management to be very easy matter. For instance in the case of HW backup one has to write down solely the master mnemonic and be safe forever. BTW, Passport 2 has such functionality as generate multiple child SEEDs from master mnemonic while Ledger Stax has not.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: NotATether on August 29, 2023, 02:53:29 AM

If you mean multiple wallets in the same HW, I fail to see how that's going to be useful since not only will it have the same effect of generating more addresses inside a single wallet, but there will also be more mnemonics to write down.

There's the beauty of it! You don't need to write down any mnemonics! For the low price of only $10 per month per mnemonic, Ledger will store them all for you! Such secure! Many value! Wow! Roll Eyes

There is an argument to be made to have a second hardware device which you can use for the emergency recovery of your funds should your primary device be lost, stolen, or damaged, so you don't need to risk importing your seed phrase in to a hot wallet. But if you can always just buy a new device should this happen and you are willing to wait a few days. And if you do need an emergency back up device on hand, then you can pick up something cheap like a SeedSigner and not splash out $300 for this NFT picture frame.

NotATether

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2023, 02:38:37 AM

I don't understand why anyone would need this device, at all:

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 06, 2022, 04:17:49 PM

My thoughts exactly. And not just harmless gimmicks, but gimmicks which actively compromise your security. Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it? So if I lose it an attacker knows who to $5 wrench attack to get the PIN? And why would I want it to display NFTs? So I can whip it out in public to show everyone my super expensive and rare NFT and make myself a target for attacks? And I really don't understand the stacking function. They want you to buy a separate device for each wallet? At $280? Lol. Or maybe you and your family members are meant to stack all your devices together in the same place to make it super easy for an attacker to steal them all at once?

Have Ledger forgotten that passphrases exist? Or derivation paths? Or even just resetting the device and entering a different seed phrase? Why would anyone need multiple devices?

And the latest gimmick is a protective case? I thought the whole point of this stupid wallet was to stack them together and show a picture on the front and text up the side? Now they are telling you to slap these cheap cases on them to stop them stacking together and to hide the picture and text?

Remember this is a Tony Fadell design, so it has a lot of features that resemble Apple but do not make much sense for cryptocurrency at large. Minimalist interfaces do not really work in this industry.

However:

Quote

They want you to buy a separate device for each wallet?

If you mean multiple wallets in the same HW, I fail to see how that's going to be useful since not only will it have the same effect of generating more addresses inside a single wallet, but there will also be more mnemonics to write down.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: zherbert on August 28, 2023, 05:04:42 PM

Ironically the curved e-ink is only there to show a wallet label on the side so you can "stack" multiple devices together. I don't understand why anyone would need more than one device?

I don't understand why anyone would need this device, at all:

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 06, 2022, 04:17:49 PM

My thoughts exactly. And not just harmless gimmicks, but gimmicks which actively compromise your security. Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it? So if I lose it an attacker knows who to $5 wrench attack to get the PIN? And why would I want it to display NFTs? So I can whip it out in public to show everyone my super expensive and rare NFT and make myself a target for attacks? And I really don't understand the stacking function. They want you to buy a separate device for each wallet? At $280? Lol. Or maybe you and your family members are meant to stack all your devices together in the same place to make it super easy for an attacker to steal them all at once?

Have Ledger forgotten that passphrases exist? Or derivation paths? Or even just resetting the device and entering a different seed phrase? Why would anyone need multiple devices?

And the latest gimmick is a protective case? I thought the whole point of this stupid wallet was to stack them together and show a picture on the front and text up the side? Now they are telling you to slap these cheap cases on them to stop them stacking together and to hide the picture and text?

tenant48

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 28, 2023, 06:00:33 PM

You mean other than making more profit for ledger? Cheesy

Instead of releasing a practical thing with a regular screen without curves and also install a removable battery, they want to release this "misunderstanding". So they will not see profits, but rather will receive losses due to small sales and the need to spend their resources on supporting Ledger Stax on an equal footing with other models.

dkbit98

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Quote from: zherbert on August 28, 2023, 05:04:42 PM

Update on Stax from Ledger, looks like they are delayed due to the curved e-ink display. There is no new delivery date specified.

Maybe they are also affected by ledger recover release news that resulted in decline in popularity and lower sales.
Stax maybe looks nice but I would never waste my money on this device, from inside they don't have anything special or new compared with their older models.
I don't know anyone who owns Stax wallet, and I never tested it so I can't say more about it.

Quote from: zherbert on August 28, 2023, 05:04:42 PM

Ironically the curved e-ink is only there to show a wallet label on the side so you can "stack" multiple devices together. I don't understand why anyone would need more than one device?

You mean other than making more profit for ledger? Cheesy

zherbert

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Update on Stax from Ledger, looks like they are delayed due to the curved e-ink display. There is no new delivery date specified.

https://app.news.ledger.com/e/es?s=1909208&e=658949&elqTrackId=efd74c1a1b7a40299e524d6e5aa03bea&elq=dac020f6a554448cb87c74246b90cb5a&elqaid=674&elqat=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1hyxbZibaY

I had predicted this is what was causing issues. https://twitter.com/zachherbert/status/1682015265326874630

Ironically the curved e-ink is only there to show a wallet label on the side so you can "stack" multiple devices together. I don't understand why anyone would need more than one device?

dkbit98

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Decrypt just released first in-depth review of new Ledger Stax hardware wallet that is showing most we saw so far, but I am not sure if this is paid or sponsored review.
Funny enough they didn't like ledger's E-ink display ^{(I like it btw)} because it can't be fully used to display NFT's in full color, and with right they say that some users don't like wireless protocol for communicating with other devices.
I expected to see more from this review, maybe comparison with older ledger wallets or showing other improvements or weak points, but whatever.
https://decrypt.co/122367/ledger-stax-hands-on-review-hardware-wallet-ipod-design-flourishes

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 14, 2023, 08:20:05 AM

Why would you want all your wallets in the same location, all subject to the same risk of loss or theft?

Nobody is doing that, and ledger just pay their marketing team to invent bunch of fantasy features that sound cool but in reality they don't have any usability.
My joke suggestion is that shitconers can use separate Stax wallets for each of their shitcoin and nft junk they own.
And if people want to waste money on this thing, go ahead and stack them together with magic magnets Cheesy

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 14, 2023, 08:20:05 AM

The fact that apparently an entire team of people at Ledger thought this was a good idea really makes me question what other stuff goes on behind the scenes there that we are unaware of.

Most of the ledger devs are clowns like their co-owner aka reddit mod btchip, and I am patiently waiting to hear first complains about battery and other hidden issues this device have.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dkbit98 on January 12, 2023, 04:20:26 PM

Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUmNHHBHEP8

God damn I hate like 99% of YouTube. 2:20 in to the video before he actually said anything useful.

But he does (eventually) touch on what I've said already in this thread - the stack feature makes absolutely no sense. Including it as a second thought would be strange enough, but naming the device after it as a flagship feature is just completely bizarre. 99% of user will not own more than one device, especially not at $280. For the tiny minority of users who do own more than one device, encouraging them to stack them together and therefore store them in the exact same place is the opposite of security. Why would you want all your wallets in the same location, all subject to the same risk of loss or theft?

The fact that apparently an entire team of people at Ledger thought this was a good idea really makes me question what other stuff goes on behind the scenes there that we are unaware of.

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Adam Venture also mentioned something that I thought about the first time I read about the features of the Ledger Stax. I am talking about the screen that can always stay on to display your NFT collection and the likes. Who keeps their hardware wallets out in the open to enjoy their NFTs? Is this HW supposed to be by your side when you are working so you can occasionally glance at your NFTs and be happy about having them? When you go out for dinner, are you going to put it on the table next to your plate to enjoy your digital monkey and banana collections? I also don't see a future where people go out clubbing with their Stax's in one hand and a drink in the other. Maybe Ledger thinks that will happen.

dkbit98

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Quote from: SFR10 on January 13, 2023, 05:49:47 AM

And speaking of magnets, I was wondering if they could damage some of the internal components in the long run ^{[I'm getting mixed results/answers from Google/Youtube and AFAIK, they (Ledger) haven't mentioned what kind of magnets are being used or how strong they are]}?

I don't think this magnets are strong enough to damage anything, except maybe the brains of people who blindly trust this ledger propaganda.
Oh it must be great device that was designer by iOS designer and he added that special secure click sound feature Roll Eyes

Another stupid suggestion is that Stax is somehow family friendly device, so you would use this magnets to connect all family wallet, that one of the more stupid things I heard in a while.

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Quote from: dkbit98 on January 12, 2023, 04:20:26 PM

It's not the sound of security. It's the sound of bullshit and a marketing campaign. Not that I am interested in the device, but I will check out the video review just to see what he thinks of it.

Quote from: SFR10 on January 13, 2023, 05:49:47 AM

And speaking of magnets, I was wondering if they could damage some of the internal components in the long run ^{[I'm getting mixed results/answers from Google/Youtube and AFAIK, they (Ledger) haven't mentioned what kind of magnets are being used or how strong they are]}?

It has to be a really strong magnet for it to cause any damage to the electronics inside the device. That's surely not the case here. I have a shaker that I sometimes take to the gym. It's equipped with two magnets so you can stick it to metal objects like the machines you train on. The other side of the shaker has a magnet that can hold your phone if you want. I have used it a few times and there were no problems at all.

SFR10

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Quote from: dkbit98 on January 12, 2023, 04:20:26 PM

Ledger Stax is using magnets, that can be used for connecting multiple devices,

And speaking of magnets, I was wondering if they could damage some of the internal components in the long run ^{[I'm getting mixed results/answers from Google/Youtube and AFAIK, they (Ledger) haven't mentioned what kind of magnets are being used or how strong they are]}?

dkbit98

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There is one nice review video released for Ledger Stax and I think it will clear things up for many people who are thinking of buying on of this devices.
I won't say any spoilers but I have to give credits to Adam Venture for spotting something I missed, how misleading ledger website can be sometimes.
Ledger Stax is using magnets, that can be used for connecting multiple devices, but they are saying that this somehow magically creates the sound of security, while it has no connection with security whatsoever.
Customers can get the wrong impression that Stax is somehow safer than other hardware wallets, when in reality it has the same tech like older models.

https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax
Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUmNHHBHEP8

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Quote from: Lucius on January 11, 2023, 06:13:53 AM

Quote from: jossiel on January 10, 2023, 05:16:15 PM

That's okay, you really don't have to buy it if you don't like the stuff and the company.

Even ignoring all the negative things that happened in the past, I don't see the point of such a device at such a price. I have their S and X models and personally I prefer that the HW is smaller and doesn't look like something like a smartphone or tablet. Maybe some people will be interested in such a concept because it will be easier for them to handle such a device - but older Ledger models have the possibility to be connected to smartphones anyway for those who want such an experience.

I have the S version and I'm good with its design as its handy. We've got the same thoughts and likes about an HW that's too big, I don't like that as well.

They're designing and probably still on the phase of monitoring if the sales will surge with the new design, yeah for sure there will be buyers and even those that have got the older versions are likely to purchase it because it's "new".

Lucius

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Quote from: jossiel on January 10, 2023, 05:16:15 PM

That's okay, you really don't have to buy it if you don't like the stuff and the company.

Even ignoring all the negative things that happened in the past, I don't see the point of such a device at such a price. I have their S and X models and personally I prefer that the HW is smaller and doesn't look like something like a smartphone or tablet. Maybe some people will be interested in such a concept because it will be easier for them to handle such a device - but older Ledger models have the possibility to be connected to smartphones anyway for those who want such an experience.

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Quote from: Lucius on January 10, 2023, 07:58:34 AM

Quote from: jossiel on January 09, 2023, 07:10:31 PM

Does the ledger's website says different shipping timeline? What's the earliest month it says it will be delivered based on your browsers? Mine says shipping will be around by April this year using a TOR browser.

What does the type of browser have to do with the date when the new devices will start shipping? Everyone is shown the same date, because it would be really idiotic to prioritize some regions of the world over others. In addition, considering the price and the fact that this is a completely new device that can have various vulnerabilities, I do not believe that there will be much interest in its purchase.

It's because some companies prioritizes what's close to them and such releases are being done there first before the customers that are offshore. That's what I'm thinking of but if on this case and they're not like that then that's good. All of the releases from any place on Earth that orders this stax is by April.

Quote from: Lucius on January 10, 2023, 07:58:34 AM

Even if it costs $100, I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't trust that company after they showed how they handle their clients' data and how they tried to marginalize the whole thing.

That's okay, you really don't have to buy it if you don't like the stuff and the company.

Topic: Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet) (Read 764 times)