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Topic: Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet) - page 3. (Read 968 times)

legendary
Activity: 3234
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It's almost the price of an average phone, with no extra features, and they haven't even tried to attract privacy-conscious individuals with a small privacy-related version.

Maybe you can buy an average smartphone for about $300, but that phone is far from those premium devices that cost at least twice as much, but also justify the investment because they are reliable, comfortable to work with, due to powerful processors and at least 6 GB of working memory. For example, I invested more than $600 in a smartphone 3 years ago and it still works perfectly today as it did on the first day - and one of my friends who bought these a little cheaper has already changed 2 devices.

What I want to say is that I find it a little funny that people compare a hardware wallet with the price of something that has nothing to do with each other - I can also say that for that price you can buy an electric romobile that you can use to go to work and to the store every day and thus save a lot of money on fuel that you would spend if you used a car.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1288
It follows the methodology of what the market wants. In the end, Ledger is a company that focuses on profits. Enhancing privacy is a problem for customers, whenever it is profitable, they will focus on it.

When people come to cryptocurrency community, they remember the banking systems, where you open an account and get a card that you can spend from, this device is an application of AIO, you will get everything in one device.

Is it worth this price?

It's almost the price of an average phone, with no extra features, and they haven't even tried to attract privacy-conscious individuals with a small privacy-related version.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Ledger is the only hardware wallet ho has this certification  (I don't know how much good is it  anyway)

Quote
The Ledger Nano X receives CSPN (First Level Security Certificate) certification issued by ANSSI (National Agency for Information Systems Security).https://www.ledger.com/ledger-nano-x-recognized-as-certified-crypto-hardware-wallet/ 
That's probably because Ledger is the only hardware wallet vendor that operates out of France. ANSSI is the French National Cybersecurity Agency. Other countries may or may not have their own laws, requirements, and standards that companies in those jurisdictions need to adhere to. When an ANSSI certified laboratory checks a product, they issue it a security visa. It's like a stamp or guarantee that is supposed to give customers and all other parties confidence that a national authority has inspected and verified the product.   

You can find more information about it here:
https://www.ssi.gouv.fr/en/actualite/the-anssi-security-visa-by-the-french-national-cybersecurity-agency/
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 6089
bitcoindata.science

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

Quote
* Conditional sale

Please note that delivery of the product is conditional upon completion of the applicable product certification process.

Should the product certification not be obtained, Ledger will automatically issue the refund.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

Lol, good catch.  I missed that when looking it over.  *Check out our awesome new hardware wallet, but it's not really a hardware wallet just yet!  

When are they going to know if it passes certification, who's certifying it, and who certifies the certifiers?

It is a third-party who certificates

Ledger is the only hardware wallet ho has this certification  (I don't know how much good is it  anyway)

Quote
The Ledger Nano X receives CSPN (First Level Security Certificate) certification issued by ANSSI (National Agency for Information Systems Security).https://www.ledger.com/ledger-nano-x-recognized-as-certified-crypto-hardware-wallet/ 
copper member
Activity: 2338
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If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them. They certainly have the marketing budget to shill this one to the sky, and I am sure that's what they are going to do. I don't doubt we will also see a few celebrities advertising this thing as something you just have to own and those techniques will be enough. Don't forget that people are still camping outside of shops when a new model of their favorite item is ready to be officially unveiled. 

Unfortunately people are very impressionable by marketing and media, and critical thinking skills are becoming extinct.  Being skeptical is no longer taught in schools and those who follow the lemming mob off the cliff are commended and revered as "good citizens."


They don't even know if it is safe yet!

Quote
* Conditional sale

Please note that delivery of the product is conditional upon completion of the applicable product certification process.

Should the product certification not be obtained, Ledger will automatically issue the refund.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

Lol, good catch.  I missed that when looking it over.  *Check out our awesome new hardware wallet, but it's not really a hardware wallet just yet!  

When are they going to know if it passes certification, who's certifying it, and who certifies the certifiers?
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Is it normal for such display types to have a ghosting effect when it goes to another page or "this" is another one of Ledger's masterpieces?
That's normal for E Ink displays, and you can see that on some Kindles as well.

You guessed correctly: the effect is known as "ghosting". The way it's explained, is that E Ink displays are made up of black and white particles. Every time the screen changes, those particles get rearranged to create the next elements on screen. Unfortunately, it also happens that the previous elements don't change completely, so it looks like you can still see what was there before.

Quote
Those that are new to E Ink ebook readers like Kindles, Kobos and Nooks often ask if it’s normal to see faint text from previous pages on the background of the screen.

The effect is entirely normal with E Ink screens, to a certain extent, and it is often referred to as ghosting. E Ink displays are composed of tiny capsules of black and white particles that get rearranged every time the screen changes, and sometimes they don’t fully change.

Over the years E Ink has made an effort to speed up the refresh rate and minimize full screen flashes, but this results in more ghosting.

Ghosting is an afterimage that remains on the screen after the page has turned or anytime the screen changes.

The ghosting effect appears as a faintly visible grayed-out version of the previous page or image.
https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2019/10/28/seeing-faint-background-text-on-ebook-readers-is-normal/
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 6089
bitcoindata.science
Anyone interested in preordering should read the bottom of https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax.
Ledger still needs to get their new HW wallet certified. If the required certification isn't obtained, I guess the production won't go ahead or it will be delayed. Those who preordered will in that case receive refunds. 

It is impressive how can people are really pre ordering this just because it is beautiful, and it is not even certified that it is safe yet. Omg, a hw should be safe first, then beautiful.

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them.

It is a very beautiful model, but it is more expensive than a smartphone. I see no reason to buy one.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
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Your thoughts?
It's an overkill [e.g. wireless charging, curved/wrap-around screen and etc...]!

Do they really expect people to buy multiples of these, when you can use the same hardware wallet with multiple accounts?
As much as I hate to say it, that's actually the case with some of their users and I'm not referring to those who have multiple Nano S devices [as someone who visits their subreddit from time to time, I tend to see more than a few users that actually own multiple Nano X devices (here's one)].

but one thing I like is they are using E Ink touchscreen, something I suggested before that hardware wallets should use.
Is it normal for such display types to have a ghosting effect when it goes to another page or "this" is another one of Ledger's masterpieces?
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
Somehow I cannot lose the feeling that this will become Ledger Blue 2.0. Just hope that I'll be proven wrong, as it does look amazing.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them. They certainly have the marketing budget to shill this one to the sky, and I am sure that's what they are going to do. I don't doubt we will also see a few celebrities advertising this thing as something you just have to own and those techniques will be enough. Don't forget that people are still camping outside of shops when a new model of their favorite item is ready to be officially unveiled. 
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18748
Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges.
Maybe, but at the same time a lot of people who hold their coins on exchanges are very casual/small users, and they leave their coins on exchanges because they don't want to pay the $5 withdrawal fee that exchanges charge. These people certainly aren't going to buy a $280 hardware wallet when you can get a more secure one without all the stupid gimmicks for $50.

When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.
This is marketing speak. Their definition of "on" in this sense will be that it will still display your NFT or your name or whatever other risky information you decide to display on the cover, but it won't actually be powered up for months at a time I'm certain. E-ink displays only use a tiny amount of power. As soon as you start doing resource intensive tasks with it like signing transactions then the battery life will reduce accordingly.
hero member
Activity: 882
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Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary. 
I would understand if it was a prototype and an experiment.

We had phones before with E-Ink displays on the back that shows weather, notifications, E-mails and so on at all times.  These had an utility, although nobody asked for it and nobody seems to want it anyway.

But to be honest, the only utility I see with Ledger's new product is someone wasting $2,799 on 10 of these Stax and using them to display some kind of meme made out of character map or an NFT split into 10 different long pieces.

Ledger is becoming the new Apple with these prices.  How will a discount look?  Get the Family Pack containing four Stax at only $1,150 $1,099, because it is definitely worth the deal?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
My mind is going over scenarios where I’d crack or break the screen, besides having to be wary of battery running down or eventually depleting it
When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.

Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it?
Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary. 

They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto.
That's just marketing nonsense. However, you can't compare the security offered by a hardware wallet with that of a hot phone wallet. But there is nothing wrong with their other devices that would require me to purchase this $300 credit-card looking thingy as my travel companion. If I wanted a Ledger for travels, I would go for an additional cheaper one, not the most expensive and delicate HW.
legendary
Activity: 3234
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At a time when most people still complain that hardware wallets are too expensive devices, Ledger decided to make one just like that - so all those who think that they should allocate several hundred $ for HW will have another reason to continue living in their illusions. I can say that this device reminds me of their abandoned Ledger Blue model, with of course some modifications - but I certainly wouldn't buy it because of the magnet and the fact that it can display NTFs.

Somehow, it doesn't seem to me that this device will be too popular, if for no other reason than for the price, which at least 90% of users are certainly not ready to pay.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1789
This is such a weird product. They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto. I can see understand if it is like an NFC card or something similar like that. Since it is cheap and doesn't attract unwarranted attention, unlike this one.

Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges. Maybe one or two of their research department staff look at Reddit and see that this thing can sell since those people like fancy stuff, it is clearly not for me (and probably not for the majority of the user in this forum either). The price is also insane in my region, I can buy 3-4 Nano S for one of these, which is a better deal.
legendary
Activity: 1792
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I think that Stax is another beautiful toy from Ledger. Admittedly, this company knows how to lure buyers with an attractive and bright cover / wrapper.

You can't ignore the price. ~$280 is a bit pricey, but I'm sure there are geeks willing to buy this and brag about it every step of the way.

Also, I admit, the device looks nice, but this should not be the main function of the device. It is more important that the HW is reliable and safe for storing crypto, and not for flaunting the device at parties. It seems that the ledger focuses on the second, forgetting what exactly the hardware wallets is for.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1873
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Rather gimmicky, if you ask me.  I don't get the benefits of the magnetic stacking feature, or the wrap-around screen.
Just for the looks.  They are clearly looking to just make their products more eye catching, nothing more to it.  Because clearly as Bitcoiners E-Ink displays and magnetic cases is what we were always waiting for.  Not Open Source components and software, not providing Bitcoin the very basic functions such as Message Signing, Replace By Fee and the likes in Ledger Live instead of supporting all sorts of Shit coins.

Who the heck would pay almost $300 for that?  There was an expensive device Ledger made before, it was Blue and whoever bought it is now crying as Ledger abandoned it.  What exactly guarantees me this $300 device will not end up the same way?

In the picture OP posted there is almost $1,150 worth of 'Stax'.  Why would I pay this much just to have a few blocks of External Solid State Drive looking hardware stacked on top of each other with magnets.  For at most a few hundred I can get myself a much better storage option for my Bitcoin and even buy a decent amount of Bitcoin with the change too.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
December 06, 2022, 05:53:56 PM
#9
Your thoughts?
New closed source junk coming from ledger, that is way overpriced, and it's clearly oriented towards shitcoins and NFT circus show.
Paying €279 presale price for this device is a waste of money, but one thing I like is they are using E Ink touchscreen, something I suggested before that hardware wallets should use.
Bluetooth and Wireless is no go for me, and I don't see any real improvements and innovation compared to all other hardware wallets.
To be fair, I will have to wait for this device to be released before saying more, but for this price I would get Passport, Keystone, or several BitBox and Trezor wallets.

Absolute nonsense. They should be focusing on things like Tor support and bitcoin only firmware, but I guess those things don't make money. So instead we get stupid gimmicks.
Tor is not paying them anything, shitcoins are Wink
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18748
December 06, 2022, 03:17:49 PM
#8
Rather gimmicky, if you ask me.
My thoughts exactly. And not just harmless gimmicks, but gimmicks which actively compromise your security. Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it? So if I lose it an attacker knows who to $5 wrench attack to get the PIN? And why would I want it to display NFTs? So I can whip it out in public to show everyone my super expensive and rare NFT and make myself a target for attacks? And I really don't understand the stacking function. They want you to buy a separate device for each wallet? At $280? Lol. Or maybe you and your family members are meant to stack all your devices together in the same place to make it super easy for an attacker to steal them all at once?

Absolute nonsense. They should be focusing on things like Tor support and bitcoin only firmware, but I guess those things don't make money. So instead we get stupid gimmicks.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 10802
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December 06, 2022, 01:50:02 PM
#7
I’ve gone through a bunch of videos that are now cropping up here and there, until I eventually came across a segment of a video that displays how the new model works (at least a basic glimpse of a TX):
https://youtu.be/XlE0BlXaQ0g?t=605

Other Videos I’ve gone through so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0x31vhORY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlE0BlXaQ0g (encloses the above extract)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srwsw1VMai4

Personally, and this is just a first impression, I’m not that impressed. My mind is going over scenarios where I’d crack or break the screen, besides having to be wary of battery running down or eventually depleting it, storing it in a larger hiding place, making sure I don’t drop it, and so forth. The flashier it gets, the more delicate it becomes, and I’m happier off with a sturdier solution in any case.

The price is steep, and it doesn’t seem to take away the need to interface with Ledger Device or such either on a laptop or on a mobile phone. The name, if derived from the fact that you can stack them together (through embedded magnets), seems unbefitting, as that is not a feature to enhance by far.

All in all, I do like techy toys, but without further hands-on contact, that is what it seems to me at this stage.
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