Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet) - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: jossiel on January 09, 2023, 07:10:31 PM

Does the ledger's website says different shipping timeline? What's the earliest month it says it will be delivered based on your browsers? Mine says shipping will be around by April this year using a TOR browser.

What does the type of browser have to do with the date when the new devices will start shipping? Everyone is shown the same date, because it would be really idiotic to prioritize some regions of the world over others. In addition, considering the price and the fact that this is a completely new device that can have various vulnerabilities, I do not believe that there will be much interest in its purchase.

Even if it costs $100, I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't trust that company after they showed how they handle their clients' data and how they tried to marginalize the whole thing.

jossiel

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I've visited Ledger's website and thought that it was just going to be a not so expensive new release. But yeah, that's a lot for pricing with a tag of $279 for this new release almost doubled with its older versions, it says free shipping.

But wise buyers will wait for those reviews from the early buyers and will ask what they think about it. Does the ledger's website says different shipping timeline? What's the earliest month it says it will be delivered based on your browsers? Mine says shipping will be around by April this year using a TOR browser.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on December 06, 2022, 12:45:45 PM

For me the old Nano S is still good enough and I agree that Ledger is again pursuing new directions - of course, they are supposed to bring more income - instead of fixing their actual (and old/known) problems that would keep their existing customers happy.

Yep, I agree. For me there's no need for something really fancy when it comes to hardware wallets, and both the Nano S and X are easy to use and are small. I don't know about anyone else, but bigger is not better with HW wallets IMO.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on December 06, 2022, 12:45:45 PM

Should I add that it costs the same as a decent 2022 Android phone? I mean, come on...

I'd never pay $279 for a HW wallet. Jesus, I think I've owned cars that cost less than that.

dkbit98

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Ledger released this new wallet called Stax and I have to say it does look cool physically, but what I was researching is inside components.
Most of the components and secure elements are the same that are used in ledger nano S plus, but they also included battery in Stax and that is the thing that makes me think this device will have similar problems like model nano X.

For people who don't know there is still a lot of problems with quality and control of batteries put in nano X, and I still see a lot of complains on their reddit page.
There are other problems people report with screen for model S, or bricking device when updating new firmware, but that is different story.

Here is one guy saying recently that 3 of his 6 ledger devices are defective!
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/103w9fb/3_of_my_6_ledger_devices_are_defective/

Different guy saying [Nano X] Not working when on battery. Ledger support not answering:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/103g7ez/nano_x_not_working_when_on_battery_ledger_support/

Few days ago, Ledger Nano X : Error Battery Cannot charge:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/zvrmsx/ledger_nano_x_error_battery_cannot_charge/

Stax is using rechargeable lithium-ion 200 mah battery, and model X is using lithium-ion 100mAh battery, so I think it's just difference in number of cells.
We still don't know if they are using same partners from China for batteries in model Stax, but if they are, I would stay far away this new ledger device.

Lucius

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Quote from: Husires on December 08, 2022, 06:28:41 AM

It's almost the price of an average phone, with no extra features, and they haven't even tried to attract privacy-conscious individuals with a small privacy-related version.

Maybe you can buy an average smartphone for about $300, but that phone is far from those premium devices that cost at least twice as much, but also justify the investment because they are reliable, comfortable to work with, due to powerful processors and at least 6 GB of working memory. For example, I invested more than $600 in a smartphone 3 years ago and it still works perfectly today as it did on the first day - and one of my friends who bought these a little cheaper has already changed 2 devices.

What I want to say is that I find it a little funny that people compare a hardware wallet with the price of something that has nothing to do with each other - I can also say that for that price you can buy an electric romobile that you can use to go to work and to the store every day and thus save a lot of money on fuel that you would spend if you used a car.

Husires

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It follows the methodology of what the market wants. In the end, Ledger is a company that focuses on profits. Enhancing privacy is a problem for customers, whenever it is profitable, they will focus on it.

When people come to cryptocurrency community, they remember the banking systems, where you open an account and get a card that you can spend from, this device is an application of AIO, you will get everything in one device.

Is it worth this price?

It's almost the price of an average phone, with no extra features, and they haven't even tried to attract privacy-conscious individuals with a small privacy-related version.

Pmalek

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Quote from: bitmover on December 07, 2022, 01:14:03 PM

Ledger is the only hardware wallet ho has this certification (I don't know how much good is it anyway)

Quote

The Ledger Nano X receives CSPN (First Level Security Certificate) certification issued by ANSSI (National Agency for Information Systems Security).https://www.ledger.com/ledger-nano-x-recognized-as-certified-crypto-hardware-wallet/

That's probably because Ledger is the only hardware wallet vendor that operates out of France. ANSSI is the French National Cybersecurity Agency. Other countries may or may not have their own laws, requirements, and standards that companies in those jurisdictions need to adhere to. When an ANSSI certified laboratory checks a product, they issue it a security visa. It's like a stamp or guarantee that is supposed to give customers and all other parties confidence that a national authority has inspected and verified the product.

You can find more information about it here:
https://www.ssi.gouv.fr/en/actualite/the-anssi-security-visa-by-the-french-national-cybersecurity-agency/

bitmover

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Quote from: DireWolfM14 on December 07, 2022, 12:28:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on December 07, 2022, 10:44:14 AM

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

Quote

* Conditional sale

Please note that delivery of the product is conditional upon completion of the applicable product certification process.

Should the product certification not be obtained, Ledger will automatically issue the refund.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

Lol, good catch. I missed that when looking it over. *Check out our awesome new hardware wallet, but it's not really a hardware wallet just yet!

When are they going to know if it passes certification, who's certifying it, and who certifies the certifiers?

It is a third-party who certificates

Ledger is the only hardware wallet ho has this certification (I don't know how much good is it anyway)

Quote

The Ledger Nano X receives CSPN (First Level Security Certificate) certification issued by ANSSI (National Agency for Information Systems Security).https://www.ledger.com/ledger-nano-x-recognized-as-certified-crypto-hardware-wallet/

DireWolfM14

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 07, 2022, 07:34:41 AM

Quote from: PrivacyG on December 07, 2022, 07:01:18 AM

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them. They certainly have the marketing budget to shill this one to the sky, and I am sure that's what they are going to do. I don't doubt we will also see a few celebrities advertising this thing as something you just have to own and those techniques will be enough. Don't forget that people are still camping outside of shops when a new model of their favorite item is ready to be officially unveiled.

Unfortunately people are very impressionable by marketing and media, and critical thinking skills are becoming extinct. Being skeptical is no longer taught in schools and those who follow the lemming mob off the cliff are commended and revered as "good citizens."

Quote from: bitmover on December 07, 2022, 10:44:14 AM

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

Quote

* Conditional sale

Please note that delivery of the product is conditional upon completion of the applicable product certification process.

Should the product certification not be obtained, Ledger will automatically issue the refund.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

Lol, good catch. I missed that when looking it over. *Check out our awesome new hardware wallet, but it's not really a hardware wallet just yet!

When are they going to know if it passes certification, who's certifying it, and who certifies the certifiers?

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Quote from: SFR10 on December 07, 2022, 09:27:25 AM

Is it normal for such display types to have a ghosting effect when it goes to another page or "this" is another one of Ledger's masterpieces?

That's normal for E Ink displays, and you can see that on some Kindles as well.

You guessed correctly: the effect is known as "ghosting". The way it's explained, is that E Ink displays are made up of black and white particles. Every time the screen changes, those particles get rearranged to create the next elements on screen. Unfortunately, it also happens that the previous elements don't change completely, so it looks like you can still see what was there before.

Quote

Those that are new to E Ink ebook readers like Kindles, Kobos and Nooks often ask if it’s normal to see faint text from previous pages on the background of the screen.

The effect is entirely normal with E Ink screens, to a certain extent, and it is often referred to as ghosting. E Ink displays are composed of tiny capsules of black and white particles that get rearranged every time the screen changes, and sometimes they don’t fully change.

Over the years E Ink has made an effort to speed up the refresh rate and minimize full screen flashes, but this results in more ghosting.

Ghosting is an afterimage that remains on the screen after the page has turned or anytime the screen changes.

The ghosting effect appears as a faintly visible grayed-out version of the previous page or image.

https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2019/10/28/seeing-faint-background-text-on-ebook-readers-is-normal/

bitmover

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 06, 2022, 02:07:30 PM

Anyone interested in preordering should read the bottom of https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax.
Ledger still needs to get their new HW wallet certified. If the required certification isn't obtained, I guess the production won't go ahead or it will be delayed. Those who preordered will in that case receive refunds.

It is impressive how can people are really pre ordering this just because it is beautiful, and it is not even certified that it is safe yet. Omg, a hw should be safe first, then beautiful.

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

Quote from: Pmalek on December 07, 2022, 07:34:41 AM

Quote from: PrivacyG on December 07, 2022, 07:01:18 AM

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them.

It is a very beautiful model, but it is more expensive than a smartphone. I see no reason to buy one.

SFR10

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on December 06, 2022, 10:25:02 AM

Your thoughts?

It's an overkill ^{[e.g. wireless charging, curved/wrap-around screen and etc...]}!

Quote from: DireWolfM14 on December 06, 2022, 12:49:18 PM

Do they really expect people to buy multiples of these, when you can use the same hardware wallet with multiple accounts?

As much as I hate to say it, that's actually the case with some of their users and I'm not referring to those who have multiple Nano S devices ^{[as someone who visits their subreddit from time to time, I tend to see more than a few users that actually own multiple Nano X devices (here's one)]}.

Quote from: dkbit98 on December 06, 2022, 06:53:56 PM

but one thing I like is they are using E Ink touchscreen, something I suggested before that hardware wallets should use.

Is it normal for such display types to have a ghosting effect when it goes to another page or "this" is another one of Ledger's masterpieces?

Mitchell

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Somehow I cannot lose the feeling that this will become Ledger Blue 2.0. Just hope that I'll be proven wrong, as it does look amazing.

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Quote from: PrivacyG on December 07, 2022, 07:01:18 AM

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them. They certainly have the marketing budget to shill this one to the sky, and I am sure that's what they are going to do. I don't doubt we will also see a few celebrities advertising this thing as something you just have to own and those techniques will be enough. Don't forget that people are still camping outside of shops when a new model of their favorite item is ready to be officially unveiled.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: joniboini on December 07, 2022, 03:00:59 AM

Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges.

Maybe, but at the same time a lot of people who hold their coins on exchanges are very casual/small users, and they leave their coins on exchanges because they don't want to pay the $5 withdrawal fee that exchanges charge. These people certainly aren't going to buy a $280 hardware wallet when you can get a more secure one without all the stupid gimmicks for $50.

Quote from: Pmalek on December 07, 2022, 06:49:59 AM

When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.

This is marketing speak. Their definition of "on" in this sense will be that it will still display your NFT or your name or whatever other risky information you decide to display on the cover, but it won't actually be powered up for months at a time I'm certain. E-ink displays only use a tiny amount of power. As soon as you start doing resource intensive tasks with it like signing transactions then the battery life will reduce accordingly.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 07, 2022, 06:49:59 AM

Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary.

I would understand if it was a prototype and an experiment.

We had phones before with E-Ink displays on the back that shows weather, notifications, E-mails and so on at all times. These had an utility, although nobody asked for it and nobody seems to want it anyway.

But to be honest, the only utility I see with Ledger's new product is someone wasting $2,799 on 10 of these Stax and using them to display some kind of meme made out of character map or an NFT split into 10 different long pieces.

Ledger is becoming the new Apple with these prices. How will a discount look? Get the Family Pack containing four Stax at only ~~$1,150~~ $1,099, because it is definitely worth the deal?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on December 06, 2022, 02:50:02 PM

My mind is going over scenarios where I’d crack or break the screen, besides having to be wary of battery running down or eventually depleting it

When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 06, 2022, 04:17:49 PM

Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it?

Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary.

Quote from: joniboini on December 07, 2022, 03:00:59 AM

They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto.

That's just marketing nonsense. However, you can't compare the security offered by a hardware wallet with that of a hot phone wallet. But there is nothing wrong with their other devices that would require me to purchase this $300 credit-card looking thingy as my travel companion. If I wanted a Ledger for travels, I would go for an additional cheaper one, not the most expensive and delicate HW.

Lucius

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At a time when most people still complain that hardware wallets are too expensive devices, Ledger decided to make one just like that - so all those who think that they should allocate several hundred $ for HW will have another reason to continue living in their illusions. I can say that this device reminds me of their abandoned Ledger Blue model, with of course some modifications - but I certainly wouldn't buy it because of the magnet and the fact that it can display NTFs.

Somehow, it doesn't seem to me that this device will be too popular, if for no other reason than for the price, which at least 90% of users are certainly not ready to pay.

joniboini

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This is such a weird product. They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto. I can see understand if it is like an NFC card or something similar like that. Since it is cheap and doesn't attract unwarranted attention, unlike this one.

Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges. Maybe one or two of their research department staff look at Reddit and see that this thing can sell since those people like fancy stuff, it is clearly not for me (and probably not for the majority of the user in this forum either). The price is also insane in my region, I can buy 3-4 Nano S for one of these, which is a better deal.

m2017

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keep walking, Johnnie

I think that Stax is another beautiful toy from Ledger. Admittedly, this company knows how to lure buyers with an attractive and bright cover / wrapper.

You can't ignore the price. ~$280 is a bit pricey, but I'm sure there are geeks willing to buy this and brag about it every step of the way.

Also, I admit, the device looks nice, but this should not be the main function of the device. It is more important that the HW is reliable and safe for storing crypto, and not for flaunting the device at parties. It seems that the ledger focuses on the second, forgetting what exactly the hardware wallets is for.

Topic: Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet) - page 2. (Read 764 times)