Topic: Lightning network (Read 619 times)
This is not a new thing in crypto, this is just a new system implementation on Bitcoin which is currently still has issues that can be seen from some failed transactions. Many users even early adopters are dubious or even reject this, some are here too, this is a natural thing, as long as it doesn’t drop the price and create a security gap then it’s a good thing IMO.
Lightning network is a good thing for Bitcoin, but the implementation is still in the experimental stage that causes some transactions failed. If looking at the price of Bitcoin, the current market is still cannot response positive or negative.
Fees
1. LN default average fee per transactions is $0.06 and that is if only 1 hop is required.
Litecoin average onchain fee per transaction is $0.01
1. LN default average fee per transactions is $0.06 and that is if only 1 hop is required.
Litecoin average onchain fee per transaction is $0.01
Any coin can have cheap fees on-chain if there isn't sufficient demand for their usage.
Litecoin's total blockchain size is 18.61 GB
Bitcoin's total blockchain size is 210.86 GB
If Litecoin was forced to handle the volume of traffic Bitcoin handles, there are two possible outcomes. Either their fees wouldn't be so cheap, or their total blockchain size would be substantially larger than Bitcoin's currently is because of their shorter blocktime. It's called supply and demand. Maybe you should gain a better understanding of simple concepts like this before you go making inane comparisons that don't actually mean anything.
Litecoin is also segwit infected and as such also usuable on the Lightning Network.
This is a positive, not a negative. Wait for Atomic Swaps. Litecoin might actually see more on-chain demand then. That could be where people choose to make their micropayments. These are the possibilities we're creating.
So while LN makes bitcoin faster & cheaper, it still does not make it faster and cheaper than all alts.
It doesn't need to be "faster and cheaper than all alts". This is what you don't understand. Bitcoin has a greater mining difficulty and total hashrate than any other network on the face of the planet. It is therefore the most secure. It seems that many users place a great deal of value in the security of Bitcoin and they're clearly willing to pay for it. If you feel your transaction doesn't need as much security, you can do it off-chain, or use coins on another LN-compatible chain and then Atomic Swap back to BTC later when you need to deal with more significant sums of money.
As you can see some alts are so much cheaper and faster, they play on a completely different level.
A level so insignificant that no one cares about them.
Go and play with your SHITECOIN if you think it's so much better, leave us in peace.
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
Hmm Yeah, the answer is no.
Some problems with your thoughts,
Fees
1. LN default average fee per transactions is $0.06 and that is if only 1 hop is required.
Litecoin average onchain fee per transaction is $0.01
Speed
1. While LN promises ultra fast transactions , it is an offchain system , and any offchain system can process transactions in microseconds.
Such as using any coin on any exchange that allows offchain transfers.
So it has no real benefits over other coins.
Now if you are a purist and think only LN offchain scaling is capable of these amazing speeds (It's not , but for the sake of your argument.)
Even if it was, Litecoin is also segwit infected and as such also usuable on the Lightning Network.
So while LN makes bitcoin faster & cheaper, it still does not make it faster and cheaper than all alts.
FYI:
Just for comparison sake,
ZEITCOIN average onchain transaction fee is $0.0000025 per transaction.
For values under $20 , it is safe to wait for only 4 transactions which is only 2 minutes to be completely finished.
While with LN, you can wait up to 2 weeks to fully redeem any coin transacted on the LN network.
As you can see some alts are so much cheaper and faster, they play on a completely different level.
Lightning Network is the best way to make bitcoin better than before. If the lightning network will be implemented, the bitcoin transaction costs will be much smaller than before.
The lightning network is really the best way to do Bitcoin more perspective for all people in the world. I agree that it gives the speed and transaction fee can be much smaller than now. It will be really good for Bitcoin.
I think in next 6-8 months we have a lot of good news to come all at once , like ETF , NYSE related exchange for bitcoin , lightening network etc . as expected Q4 seems might be starting of bull run again , same like previous year where not just btc but all other alts also were booming .
For the years of Bitcoin existing many of different projects were trying to improve and develop bitcoin transaction system more, but as far as we can see none of them were succeed, I don't know what is the reason for that.
Some information on Lightning Network
Each blockchain block is limited to 1MB in size to increase the hierarchy of the network, but this also limits Bitcoin's transaction processing capabilities, leading to higher transaction fees and lower transaction processing. On August 24, 2017, Separated Witness was put into use, a precursor to the Lightning Network - a subset of the vast Bitcoin Blocks network with intelligent contracting features such as Ethereum. This enhances Bitcoin's blockchain capability to handle almost unlimited transactions at a little cost, by routing transactions through the network gateway of the payment gateway. The Lightning Network has been tested with version 1.0 since December 2017 with the first transaction at Bitrefill and will be officially launched in 2018.
Each blockchain block is limited to 1MB in size to increase the hierarchy of the network, but this also limits Bitcoin's transaction processing capabilities, leading to higher transaction fees and lower transaction processing. On August 24, 2017, Separated Witness was put into use, a precursor to the Lightning Network - a subset of the vast Bitcoin Blocks network with intelligent contracting features such as Ethereum. This enhances Bitcoin's blockchain capability to handle almost unlimited transactions at a little cost, by routing transactions through the network gateway of the payment gateway. The Lightning Network has been tested with version 1.0 since December 2017 with the first transaction at Bitrefill and will be officially launched in 2018.
Lighting network is good technology, which upgrade bitcoin. And I like to see how bitcoin growing.
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
thanks for the information you provide. but I do not think it would have a major impact on the current bitcoin price. If we look at 2-3 years ago maybe what you give this will look and have a direct impact on bitcoin prices because there were very few people in the world who know of bitcoin as a digital exchange tool. Hopefully, if used could have an impact on the current bitcoin price even though I'm still a bit hesitanthttps://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
https://www.coindesk.com/merchants-bitcoin-lightning-network/
After the lightning network is launched to the public, the impact will be seen.
@Wind_FURY
You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk
Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.
Enjoy your free time.
You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk
Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.
Enjoy your free time.
I rebuked all your claims with facts and I am the ignorant one? Hahaha. Ok, I wish you good luck in trying to convince the newbies in all your lies and misinformation. But I am self-assured that those lost newbies will learn the truth in time.
It is certainly good that a lightning net has appeared, but how the government will look at such operations.
[snipped]
dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.
It's undoubtedly easier for us to recognise that Zin-Zang is a troll, because we have the experience and knowledge to make an informed judgement. But it would be just as easy for anyone new to Bitcoin to be lured in by such posts and start believing something that's not true. Best to nip it in the bud. The last thing we need is a whole forum full of people claiming it's some sort of conspiracy to create "banking 2.0".
Wow , both of you think I am a troll, both of you luv bitcoin and both of you think LN is great
therefore according to Pursuer small world theory , you too must be the same person.
Nah, I have never been that lame as to believe people that shared the same views are all the same person.
Enjoy your conspiracy.
P.S. I am Batman in my spare time.
https://i.imgur.com/vRaulCN.gif
(Took 6 weeks for that leg to heal.)
@Pursuer,
Shame you can't tell the difference between someone speaking the truth and someone trolling.
But your problem , not mine.
LN is most definitely Banking 2.0 and multiple people have said this.
And I doubt they are all the same person.
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system
Would you care to name this supposed third party?
LOL, LN Hub operators.
Serious how did you not know that?
Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America.
What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.
Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.
Guess it is not apparent to you either.
But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.
Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.
https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/
FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43006363
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license
Quote
full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public
Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin
LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))
LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.
Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.
And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2
This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.
LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.
Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.
http://newsprom.ru/i/n/631/198631/tn_198631_1251597f1cf3.jpg
I agree more on-chain solutions, cross-chain liquidity/DEX/private smart contracts etc are needed.
Though I think extra layers can be useful, they should not compromise on fungibility/privacy or decentralization
@Wind_FURY
You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk
Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.
Enjoy your free time.
You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk
Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.
Enjoy your free time.
I think lightning network will be more helpful to reduce transactions fee & increase the speed of network transaction in future.
exactly my thoughts, it should bring more benefits and overall be a great addition.
Yeah. Lightning network implementation will hugely impact bitcoin positively. I do hope the development will be finished soon enough.
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system
Would you care to name this supposed third party?
LOL, LN Hub operators.
Serious how did you not know that?
Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America.
What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.
Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.
Guess it is not apparent to you either.
But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.
Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.
https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/
Quote
DOJ Employs Money Laundering Statute to Prosecute Venezuelan Oilmen for Foreign Bribery
If you are thinking you live a free world, you are sadly mistaken.
*Ask Vinnik*
https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-extradition-request-complicates-case-of-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-alexander-vinnik
Quote
Vinnik, who is a former owner of crypto exchange BTC-e,
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.
How would arresting one person stop the whole Lightning Network?
Plus report Lightning to the authorities! There are more than 7,000 nodes laundering money! Hahaha.
You and your debate is lost.
FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43006363
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license
Quote
full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public
Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin
LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))
No. There is no "ledger" in Lightning. All your transactions are stored locally until you broadcast them in the blockchain.
Quote
LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
FUD. What part of multisig do you not understand. Plus you have 100% control of your funds because you can broadcast the last state of the channel ANYTIME you want.
Quote
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.
FUD. That is impossible because your coins are locked 1:1 in a 2 of 2 multisig wallet. How can coins be "printed" from thin air in Lightning? You cannot.
Quote
Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.
And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2
This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.
And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2
This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.
Yes Lightning fees are unfairly cheap as promised.
Quote
LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.
Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.
Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.
Then why would there be a Lightning "Bank of America" node again? Was it not your first debate was "to earn high fees from the users"? Hahahaha.
Lightning network for crypto will become wow, bitcoin will become fast and often often is the network of lightning in bitcoin
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