Lightning Network board | Bitcointalksearch.org

cygan

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Quote from: dkbit98 on September 27, 2021, 01:02:43 PM

Bumping this up for theymos and others, I think it's finally time to create Lightning Network Board in Bitcointalk, and maybe do some autumn cleanup and moving all LN topic there.

Stats are showing big increase in LN usage, number of nodes and channels are growing, and I see a bunch of interesting development happening around LN with PoS and wallets, not to mention that millions of people in El Salvador are using Chivo wallet based on LN.

a very good find to get such an old thread again
would also be in favor of a mod here to create/open a section for Bitcloin lightning network and put there all threads what concerns the topic ln
the topic is already so big that you are actually forced to create an extra board for it

dkbit98

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Bumping this up for theymos and others, I think it's finally time to create Lightning Network Board in Bitcointalk, and maybe do some autumn cleanup and moving all LN topic there.

Stats are showing big increase in LN usage, number of nodes and channels are growing, and I see a bunch of interesting development happening around LN with PoS and wallets, not to mention that millions of people in El Salvador are using Chivo wallet based on LN.

Timelord2067

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 05, 2019, 03:46:41 PM

...

I've only just come across this thread as I don't visit meta too often.

I'm giving the LN a chance as evidenced by my

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/timelord2067s-timely-test-main-net-lightning-loans-to-a-t-in-202122-5184177
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max. thread even though I'm finding the LN very klunky with a lack of connection paths Vs the block-chain broadcasting to the entire network.

That said, I'm not interested in signing up for yet another forum elsewhere, but am ok with looking in on more lighting node threads (child boards) here on BCT.

Quote from: Rath_ on June 21, 2019, 03:45:47 PM

LNchat.org domain will remain under Zand's control and I will continue maintaining our Lightning Network node which has quite a lot of opened channels.

All the channels are currently showing as "closed" which is one of many reasons I want to spread my channels around instead of putting all my eggs into one basket. One major node fails (for what ever reason) and most connections are cut off.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: LoyceV on September 19, 2019, 07:19:48 AM

Quote from: bitart on September 18, 2019, 05:05:04 PM

Maybe we need a second hype similar to the year end of 2017, when the transactions were sitting in the mempool for days before they got confirmed in the end... even if they had very high fees compared to the normal days before and after....
That time the demand for the LN was higher than now, despite of the system was in an earlier status, with less functionality and similar things...

That's not going to work: At the fee-peak in 2017, it took about $25 for a small transaction to get a confirmation. A transaction funding a LN-channel is bigger (in bytes), and you'll need a similar transaction to close the channel. You may be looking at $100 to fund and close a channel, and there's no amount of small coffee payments that can justify that.

right

that's why I'm dedicating alot of effort to getting my Lightning node as well managed as possible now, long before any spike in transactions occurs again.

Once enough people are running Lightning, it becomes increasingly less likely that transaction spikes on-chain will last long, or that they'll even be as intense as they were in 2017.

There's another reason to get Lightning in the best shape we can: it mitigates DDoS of the on-chain network. So a well subscribed, liquid, and operationally reliable lightning (or another 2nd layer) is actually vital for Bitcoin's overall robustness.

It's kind of beautiful really. all that could be achieved from an attack against miners or nodes would be:

strengthen Lightning
reduce the effectiveness of attacks against Lightning (assuming Eltoo hasn't yet been deployed in this scenario)
increase BTC value (as there would be an inevitable reduction in BTC supply)

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitart on September 18, 2019, 05:05:04 PM

Maybe we need a second hype similar to the year end of 2017, when the transactions were sitting in the mempool for days before they got confirmed in the end... even if they had very high fees compared to the normal days before and after....
That time the demand for the LN was higher than now, despite of the system was in an earlier status, with less functionality and similar things...

That's not going to work: At the fee-peak in 2017, it took about $25 for a small transaction to get a confirmation. A transaction funding a LN-channel is bigger (in bytes), and you'll need a similar transaction to close the channel. You may be looking at $100 to fund and close a channel, and there's no amount of small coffee payments that can justify that.
For LN-nodes, that leads to small dust inputs, which is very expensive to consolidate again, so they may just stop accepting new channels.

If I may add my own "maybe": Maybe we'll get a LN-board (or second-layer-board) when there's more demand, and more merchants accept LN. I recently paid a $1 VPS through LN, and the fact that they accept LN was the only reason to buy it. I still want to travel to Arnhem (Dutch) to buy groceries and pay through LN Cheesy

I realize I'm going off-topic, but I like LN's potential.

Would it help if I make "1 thread to list them all", like my GUIDES-topic, until there's a LN-board?

bitart

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Quote from: DooMAD on September 18, 2019, 12:58:14 PM

* moved by request from https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52488736 *

Quote from: Rath_ on September 18, 2019, 06:21:53 AM

Quote from: bitart on September 18, 2019, 06:05:25 AM

-snip

I proposed it about 3 months ago and nothing has happened since then. A board dedicated to second layer solutions might help us not to abuse this topic and divide information into separate threads without having to worry that they will end up on the 20th page of this section. If you want to discuss it further, please reply in the previously mentioned topic.

I'd assume it's more a case of "when" than "if", so once the demand is there and it makes sense to have one, we'll probably get it then. Difficult to tell how long it might take, but I guess that's up to devs, retailers and anyone else working towards the goal of increased adoption.

Maybe we need a second hype similar to the year end of 2017, when the transactions were sitting in the mempool for days before they got confirmed in the end... even if they had very high fees compared to the normal days before and after....
That time the demand for the LN was higher than now, despite of the system was in an earlier status, with less functionality and similar things...
So maybe the demand won't depend on the LN devs but the market situation, so the devs needs to make sure to have something nearly final by the time the mempool reaches such a status again...

DooMAD

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* moved by request from https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52488736 *

Quote from: Rath_ on September 18, 2019, 06:21:53 AM

Quote from: bitart on September 18, 2019, 06:05:25 AM

-snip

I proposed it about 3 months ago and nothing has happened since then. A board dedicated to second layer solutions might help us not to abuse this topic and divide information into separate threads without having to worry that they will end up on the 20th page of this section. If you want to discuss it further, please reply in the previously mentioned topic.

I'd assume it's more a case of "when" than "if", so once the demand is there and it makes sense to have one, we'll probably get it then. Difficult to tell how long it might take, but I guess that's up to devs, retailers and anyone else working towards the goal of increased adoption.

Rath_

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Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on June 21, 2019, 03:14:15 PM

Little bit of off topic here, but when LNchat.org will be up and running?? This is directed to @BitCryptex

We have decided to put that project on hold; that's why I proposed the creation of Lightning Network board on bitcointalk. We found a few developers which were interested in implementing features desribed here, but the cost of development was a bit too high, especially if we consider the current popularity of the Lightning Network. I will focus on contributing on bitcointalk. I am currently reviewing the FAQ before reposting it.

LNchat.org domain will remain under Zand's control and I will continue maintaining our Lightning Network node which has quite a lot of opened channels.

TheBeardedBaby

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Little bit of off topic here, but when LNchat.org will be up and running?? This is directed to @BitCryptex

bitart

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Quote from: DooMAD on June 19, 2019, 08:14:44 AM

Quote from: bones261 on June 11, 2019, 03:05:51 PM

The only problem that I see with a dedicated LN board is that most threads on the topic end up becoming derailed and the threads become locked.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. LN topics can get locked in all the places they currently get posted, but they can still provide some useful information before they get derailed by trolls. If we allow disruptive behaviour to hamper our ambitions, the trolls have been successful in their goal. Don't let them win.

The Lightning Network topic should be somewhere in an universal place because it does not only support bitcoin but several alts too, so a child board under bitcoin development would not cover all the features (or will get off topic several times when it comes to the alts...)
Anywhere it goes, I'll have a close look on it

DooMAD

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Quote from: nutildah on June 19, 2019, 08:23:24 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on June 19, 2019, 08:14:44 AM

Quote from: bones261 on June 11, 2019, 03:05:51 PM

The only problem that I see with a dedicated LN board is that most threads on the topic end up becoming derailed and the threads become locked.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. LN topics can get locked in all the places they currently get posted, but they can still provide some useful information before they get derailed by trolls. If we allow disruptive behaviour to hamper our ambitions, the trolls have been successful in their goal. Don't let them win.

Isn't that a bizarre phenomenon? I know you've noticed it too -- what's up with this crowd that just hates LN? Nobody's forcing anybody to use it... Its just weird to me that a very select minority trash it every chance they get. I can't imagine being so angry at a technology.

There's a part of me that wants to believe it's simply some ideological differences combined with an unhealthy dose of bitterness on their part, but increasingly I'm starting to think it's malicious. Like they are just attempting to undermine Lightning purely because any user they can turn against it could potentially start using whatever it is these trolls are supporting.

It makes sense when you think about it:

Got no unique selling points for your preferred client/blockchain/whatever? No one cares about your shit ideas? Hardly any users? Why not try to sabotage the project that currently has all the support instead? Roll Eyes

I'm pretty sure that's how their mindset works.

nutildah

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Quote from: DooMAD on June 19, 2019, 08:14:44 AM

Quote from: bones261 on June 11, 2019, 03:05:51 PM

The only problem that I see with a dedicated LN board is that most threads on the topic end up becoming derailed and the threads become locked.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. LN topics can get locked in all the places they currently get posted, but they can still provide some useful information before they get derailed by trolls. If we allow disruptive behaviour to hamper our ambitions, the trolls have been successful in their goal. Don't let them win.

Isn't that a bizarre phenomenon? I know you've noticed it too -- what's up with this crowd that just hates LN? Nobody's forcing anybody to use it... Its just weird to me that a very select minority trash it every chance they get. I can't imagine being so angry at a technology.

In any case, yes a Lightning board would be great, I'm all for it. Pretty sure it will be catching on significantly in the future.

DooMAD

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Quote from: bones261 on June 11, 2019, 03:05:51 PM

The only problem that I see with a dedicated LN board is that most threads on the topic end up becoming derailed and the threads become locked.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. LN topics can get locked in all the places they currently get posted, but they can still provide some useful information before they get derailed by trolls. If we allow disruptive behaviour to hamper our ambitions, the trolls have been successful in their goal. Don't let them win.

bones261

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The only problem that I see with a dedicated LN board is that most threads on the topic end up becoming derailed and the threads become locked.

malevolent

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Typically, new boards (child-boards) are created when there is adequate demand for them. Right now, I'm seeing five LN-related topics on the 1st page in Development & Technical Discussion, zero such topics on the 2nd page, four topics on the 3rd page, three on the 4th, and two on the 5th, and there are forty topics per every page. Post more LN-related content if you have something meaningful to say or ask, and in time a new child-board will be created.

Quote from: ?? on ??

My only concern is who will be the moderator? AFAIK most moderators are busy.

That shouldn't be a problem, probably current Dev&Tech board mods + Global mods if a dedicated LN/L2 board was to be created.

edit: typo

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Quote from: ?? on ??

My only concern is who will be the moderator? AFAIK most moderators are busy.

I'm very sure that won't be difficult to find, we have numerous well reputed veteran members with basic knowledge on that area that will be willing to volunteer for the job and if the appointed mod isn't good at his/her or their job they get replace with immediate effect with someone else until theymos finds someone perfect.

I support this suggestion, I'm a frequent visitor to the technical discussion board but i do more of reading then posting as my knowledge in that area is below average. Also thanks OP for linking those other threads.

adamvp

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I fully agree that Lightening Network board is very good and much needed idea!
There is many FUD in this matter, FUDsters are using lack of people knowledge to discredit LN as idea at all.
I think Bitcoin need 2nd layer to continue its expansion so I really think LN is important enough to have its own board on BTC.

DooMAD

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Bit late to the party as I've been away on holiday, but fully supportive of a layer 2 section. It seems like half the time people can't decide if it belongs in Bitcoin Discussion or Development & Technical, so a dedicated sub would be ideal.

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Quote from: Lauda on June 06, 2019, 01:43:19 AM

...LN has a lot of features that justify this, and there's even more to come.

There is no doubt that the Lightning network is a complicated technology, as evidenced by the lack of naming in foreign languages for many elements and processes occurring in it.

Many times I see "free translation" added when I read tutorials, guides, articles in foreign languages about LN.

Personally, I was looking for materials about LN yesterday, after reading a very twisted article in which there were many interesting but unanswered questions.

A separate board is a very good idea because it will be very easy to search for help or materials on this topic. Many people are interested in LN and need detailed information and support.

There is a good chance that a specific community will be built around the Lightning Network, from insiders and supporters of this new board.

nutildah

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Quote from: Lauda on June 06, 2019, 01:43:19 AM

Quote from: jackg on June 05, 2019, 07:03:18 PM

To be honest I think this is going a bit too far... For example, segwit is about the same sort of thing as ln and it doesn't make sense to make a section for either. However putting it in alternate wallet software might be an idea if deemed necessary.

This is wrong, they aren't comparable at this point. LN has a lot of features that justify this, and there's even more to come.

I agree, because SegWit is an inherent part of the Bitcoin Core code and LN is a separate network.

All the more reason to give Lightning its own board. I think this may actually help make it easier to foster more innovation in (or adoption of) LN, if its easier to find and isolate information pertaining to it.

Topic: Lightning Network board (Read 994 times)