Lightning Network Observer - page 28.

fillippone

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Activity: 2268

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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

The other day I read an interesting article by Lyn Alden. It was super interesting, but I forgot to post it here, untile I saw it relaunched by Micheal Saylor:

It’s not an easy ready, but definitely worth it.

A Look At the Lightning Network

Quote

Examining the scaling method of the Bitcoin network and its evolution from a store of value to a medium of exchange.

This article examines the relationship between a monetary asset being a store of value vs being a medium of exchange.

Specifically, it focuses on the scaling method of the Bitcoin network as its main example, but also takes a broad look at the history of trade-offs in the cryptocurrency space as well to see why a layered approach makes the most sense.

The primary goal of this article is to examine the topic of how bitcoin has evolved as a medium of exchange, and more broadly to analyze the order in which new monetary assets can be accepted as a store of value and a medium of exchange.

As a big part of that, I’ll include an analysis of the Lightning network, which is a small but fast-growing payments layer that is interwoven into the Bitcoin network.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Quote from: n0nce on August 03, 2022, 09:58:56 AM

I'd personally steer clear from something like this.

I would agree with you, but I would probably use this as temporary solution more than using other any stablecoins built on top of shitcoin networks.
Imagine people that had tokens like TerraUSD, any stablcoins on solana network, or they would have to pay crazy fees on ethereum for USDT or USDC.
Just for comparison sake, there is a list of 22 failed ''stable'' coins so far, some of them I never heard before:
https://cryptosec.info/failed-stablecoins/

It would be interesting to make something like Stablesats but with decentralized exchanges like Bisq (instead of using OKX), so you would remove biggest risk.
However, this is easier said than done for many resons.

n0nce

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 5834

not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: cygan on August 03, 2022, 09:27:08 AM

Quote

“With Stablesats-enabled Lightning wallets, users are able to send from, receive to and hold money in a USD account in addition to their default BTC account,” said Nicolas Burtey, CEO of Galoy, in a statement sent to Bitcoin Magazine. “While the dollar value of their BTC account fluctuates, $1 in their USD account remains $1 regardless of the bitcoin exchange rate.”

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/galoy-brings-us-dollars-to-bitcoin

As the article states, if a lot of people buy e.g. 1BTC worth of stablesats and Bitcoin loses half its value, the company will have to give each such user 1BTC, and the users would be able to cash out 2BTC, right?
In a longer bear market, it will absolutely wreck the company if they don't have enough reserves.

Seeing that they are looking for money in the single-digit-millions-range, it doesn't appear to me that they have sufficient reserves.
Maybe they are working with centralized exchanges in a way that is often suspected already to be happening: those 1BTC I mentioned earlier, will be 'printed' out of thin air at the exchange, in hope that not all users withdraw to non-custodial wallets at the same time.

I'd personally steer clear from something like this.

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

Quote

“With Stablesats-enabled Lightning wallets, users are able to send from, receive to and hold money in a USD account in addition to their default BTC account,” said Nicolas Burtey, CEO of Galoy, in a statement sent to Bitcoin Magazine. “While the dollar value of their BTC account fluctuates, $1 in their USD account remains $1 regardless of the bitcoin exchange rate.”

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/galoy-brings-us-dollars-to-bitcoin

n0nce

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 5834

not your keys, not your coins!

I often reference https://walletscrutiny.com/, when it comes to questions like 'How good is wallet X' or 'What wallet would you recommend?'.
Mostly for their regular tests of build reproducibility. Open-source code gains you nothing if the firmware you are flashing to your hardware wallet or the software package you are installing, doesn't match the source.
That's why I value their service a lot.

The other day I noticed they are looking for donations and their donation page supports Lightning payments.
I think it fits the 'Lightning Network Observer' topic since it's a way to spend some sats and support a good cause..

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

the lightning network is getting bigger and bigger Cool

👌

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

today i accidentally came across a very good ln-bot for telegram. this bot is a BTCitcoin lightning wallet that can send tips (small amounts) on telegram. to send a tip, add the bot to a group chat. the basic unit of tips are satoshis and with the start of the bot, a lightning address is automatically created for the respective user - in my case the: [email protected] Grin

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Whimsical Pants

Quote from: fillippone on July 15, 2022, 07:05:59 PM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on July 14, 2022, 04:19:05 PM

But if it exists for X amount of time I will recover it. I just have to decide what X is.

This amount is defined in blocks?
How long this channel has been opened?
I guess it is fair to set roughly the same amount of time the channel was open.

By this metric he has 3 months. My node made requests for force closes 30 days ago. The channel was opened 120 days ago. Leaving him 3 months to return.

Or Channel opened 727763 Close request 741000 current 745150. It was open for roughly 13k blocks. So sometime around 758500 would do.

I am in no hurry. I will also have to learn how to craft the close action by hand... that might be tough.

His node was YOUNG. Mine was from 2019. At the time his channel was worth ~2kUSD (half that now). Who would walk away from this much. Craig Wright? Franky? Really only a raving lunatic!

fillippone

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 16328

Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on July 14, 2022, 04:19:05 PM

But if it exists for X amount of time I will recover it. I just have to decide what X is.

This amount is defined in blocks?
How long this channel has been opened?
I guess it is fair to set roughly the same amount of time the channel was open.

Banking Freedom

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Bitcoin Beach Wallet is now open to other countries not just El Salvador!
Works perfect in Europe!

First NFC Bitcoin Card (Bolt) works perfect in UK (more LN locations on Isle Of Man)
Buy the Bolt NFC card for free (use £10 Bonus) with my invitation: https://www.coincorner.com/?AffiliateId=9224 (required £100 deposit and one trade/change for £10 Bonus)

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Whimsical Pants

Quote from: fillippone on July 11, 2022, 02:34:17 AM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on July 09, 2022, 07:50:56 PM

So you really only want channels with reliable nodes.

Interesting ethic debate. Those funds are stuck on the channel. You could recover all the funds and then be ready to return those if the poor fellow will ever contact you.
Just to prevent the fact an accident on your side could make those funds lost forever.

I did the forensics on this and I am amazed.

The zombie channel was indeed initiated by my channel partner. And I do not believe it ever had any traffic. So they are just kissing .05BTC goodbye. Wow. I assume eventually they will come to their senses and force close it. But if it exists for X amount of time I will recover it. I just have to decide what X is.

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

Quote from: fillippone on July 13, 2022, 01:58:19 PM

Quote from: cygan on July 13, 2022, 01:33:57 AM

finally

it continues to move in the right direction... a us central bank has just recognized the importance of the ln for BTC

Very nice find.

It’s duty of the public regulator to keep an eye on the innovation in the field.
✂

there is also no way around continuing to observe these great innovations and implementing them step by step in the entire ecosystem.
and i think that there will soon be more positive news about the lightnig network and its many advantages.

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: franky1 on July 13, 2022, 03:37:08 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 13, 2022, 09:04:12 AM

Quote from: franky1 on July 13, 2022, 04:14:30 AM

there are hundreds of millions of users using central exchanges. and only 17k nodes
(...)
but i guess people dont want to observe actual numbers and actual real life stuff playing out. they just want to find any fluff piece that sounds like it meets their utopia

We're not suggesting there will be "hundreds of millions" of LN users at any point in the near future. If you are, then perhaps you are the utopian dreamer. Maybe try to keep your precious scenarios at least somewhat grounded in reality.

It seems as though you decry every new service adopting LN, because you realise each one means a small, incremental rise in liquidity. Whereas your goal is to try and scare people away one user at a time with your ludicrous hyperbole and fearmongering. You're not going to succeed.

my quote was in reference to someone pulling a puff piece suggesting that LN is the reason there is no bitcoin congestion.

Who said it? Obviously it's wrong, or to be fair to that "someone", you probably have taken it out of context like in some of our debates?

Plus it's better to educate him/her franky1. Be respectful, and don't ridicule people in the forum. Given that demand for transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain can be limited, with limited supply of block-space, the network will congest, driving fees higher. In theory it can also be the same with the Lightning Network, because of the limited supply of capital, the Bitcons, "locked" in payment channels.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4270

Merit: 4534

Quote from: DooMAD on July 13, 2022, 09:04:12 AM

Quote from: franky1 on July 13, 2022, 04:14:30 AM

there are hundreds of millions of users using central exchanges. and only 17k nodes
(...)
but i guess people dont want to observe actual numbers and actual real life stuff playing out. they just want to find any fluff piece that sounds like it meets their utopia

We're not suggesting there will be "hundreds of millions" of LN users at any point in the near future. If you are, then perhaps you are the utopian dreamer. Maybe try to keep your precious scenarios at least somewhat grounded in reality.

It seems as though you decry every new service adopting LN, because you realise each one means a small, incremental rise in liquidity. Whereas your goal is to try and scare people away one user at a time with your ludicrous hyperbole and fearmongering. You're not going to succeed.

my quote was in reference to someone pulling a puff piece suggesting that LN is the reason there is no bitcoin congestion. i clearly stated when there are only 17k LN nodes but hundreds of millions of centralised exchange accounts.. no fluff. its actual numbers anyone can find should they dare observe..
the reality is people are using exchanges as "bank accounts" to avoid the bitcoin network. rather than using LN.

as stated there is real world evidence. not just the hundreds of millions of exchange customers. but also that even the CHIVO dropped LN, to instead prefer centralised exchanges as the back bone account management system of crypto/fiat of chivo payments

atleast my goal is not to lock people into LN and then give lame excuses for why they should never exit it. by screaming how bitcoin is bad, bloated, heavy,broke just to make your network look good
while simultaneously trying to ignore, hide, avoid, the flaws of your favoured network

have you dared to even read your own post history and tally how many times you shamed bitcoin vs how many times you shamed LN.. go on try it observe your bias

yea you hate bitcoin network i get it. but do yourself a favour. if you want to be a PR guy for LN.. try better.

fillippone

legendary

Activity: 2268

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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Quote from: cygan on July 13, 2022, 01:33:57 AM

finally

it continues to move in the right direction... a us central bank has just recognized the importance of the ln for BTC

Very nice find.

It’s duty of the public regulator to keep an eye on the innovation in the field.
Let me quote the abstract:

Quote

The Lightning Network (LN) is a means of netting Bitcoin payments outside the blockchain. We find a significant association between LN adoption and reduced blockchain congestion, sug- gesting that the LN has helped improve the efficiency of Bitcoin as a means of payment. This improvement cannot be explained by other factors, such as changes in demand or the adoption of SegWit. We find mixed evidence on whether increased centralization in the Lightning Network has improved its efficiency. Our findings have implications for the future of cryptocurrencies as a means of payment and their environmental footprint.

DooMAD

legendary

Activity: 3724

Merit: 3063

Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: franky1 on July 13, 2022, 04:14:30 AM

there are hundreds of millions of users using central exchanges. and only 17k nodes
(...)
but i guess people dont want to observe actual numbers and actual real life stuff playing out. they just want to find any fluff piece that sounds like it meets their utopia

We're not suggesting there will be "hundreds of millions" of LN users at any point in the near future. If you are, then perhaps you are the utopian dreamer. Maybe try to keep your precious scenarios at least somewhat grounded in reality.

It seems as though you decry every new service adopting LN, because you realise each one means a small, incremental rise in liquidity. Whereas your goal is to try and scare people away one user at a time with your ludicrous hyperbole and fearmongering. You're not going to succeed.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4270

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Ha i laugh
yet there are hundreds of millions of users using central exchanges. and only 17k nodes

seems like the 'lack of congestion' is that people are using central exchanges as bank accounts more so than LN
to a tune of.. wait for it a 200,000+:17 factor (more then 200m vs 17k)

this is also backed up by the fact that the el salvador situation moved AWAY from LN in winter and is now using a central exchange as their bank account back bone of chivo customers balance (alphapoint)
but i guess people dont want to observe actual numbers and actual real life stuff playing out. they just want to find any fluff piece that sounds like it meets their utopia

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

finally

it continues to move in the right direction... a us central bank has just recognized the importance of the ln for BTC payments

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4142590

cygan

legendary

Activity: 3262

Merit: 8492

icarus-cards.eu

https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1546887982363320320

Foxbit is a BTCitcoin and cryptocurrency company headquartered in são paulo (brasil), it aims to revolutionize the financial market

franky1

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 11, 2022, 02:25:07 AM

I'm not debating your claims, ser. The point of my post is if criticisms are something like what you have said before, that "Lightning transactions are made of IOUs", then that's absolutely wrong and misleading.

if you have not learned anything from observing the LUNACY of the sidechain pegs of other networks that didnt not have guaranteed pegging mechanisms. thats on you

if you havnt learned that there is no network consensus or protection to avoid a bad 'rounding' error of converting a onion payment message into a commitment. thats on you.
(your not reliant on a network consensus. your reliant on the trust of the wallet update version you personally download, meaning many risks are at play)

just try to run scenarios and actually look into the whole 1sat:1000msat pegging code.
it will surprise you
(observe that LN does not transmit bitcoin transactions around LN route channels/nodes)

if you have not observed the difference between a onion payment and a commitment. thats on you.
if you have not observed the mechanism of the difference between an onion payment(msat) and commitment(sat) thats on you

malicious users can tempt eager customers to download a variant of software offering "new features"(your buddy calls it this. not me) which can allow and do allow fractional reserving, depegged/unbakced msats and other risky stuff.. because IT HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY

Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 28. (Read 13570 times)