Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 137.

LaserHorse

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Quote from: nightengale on August 10, 2013, 01:26:56 AM

[…] Just like a child, he is testing the community to determine what he can get away with. Letting him simply ship these chips 6-10 weeks late and get away with it is inexcusable.

I believe this is precisely our current situation. The psychological evidence seems fairly obvious. Of course, this is a business relationship - best to avoid too much personal analysis.

Our task now is to properly motivate BitSyncom, by any legal means possible, to ship our product to us immediately. I have no interest in future discounts/vouchers/etc as I will not be purchasing Avalon products again.

jesse11

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Ants Rock

I fully agree with you nightengale, Yifu actions are most inexcusable! As far as the K16's go, I like to see Mining Hardware at work, Bitcoins fascinate me. Bitcoins are a tech ahead of it's time.

nightengale

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Quote from: jesse11 on August 09, 2013, 11:54:56 PM

Good point xjack, I'd rather have my K16 Miners instead of a chip refund any day of the week. I hope all will work out and steamboat receives the chips.

Your k16s are almost certainly worth less than what you paid for them thanks to the delays.

A chip refund and further possible discount consideration are a much fairer outcome. The more we attempt to impress this on Yifu, the better outcome we will achieve. Just like a child, he is testing the community to determine what he can get away with. Letting him simply ship these chips 6-10 weeks late and get away with it is inexcusable.

jesse11

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Ants Rock

Good point xjack, I'd rather have my K16 Miners instead of a chip refund any day of the week. I hope all will work out and steamboat receives the chips.

xjack

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I'm thinking an assembled miner will sell for more than a chip refund and half a warehouse full of other K16 parts. I'm hoping Yifu gets his head out of ass and delivers quick enough for me to flip these before Oct.

adamthefishman

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Quote from: LaserHorse on August 09, 2013, 10:47:08 PM

Quote from: adamthefishman on August 09, 2013, 10:28:14 PM

I run a small business, and have some small amount of experience with shipping from China.

There is no way I would have shipped large amounts of chips in one shipment. It is too much of a risk.

Shipments should have been separated over several smaller shipments, over multiple days. He probably also should have used different delivery companies, and different packaging.

This would have resulted in at least some chips getting through.

I regard one large shipment getting stuck in customs, as bad management, and thus the fault of the business. I think a partial to full refund is in order, and priority for the 2nd Gen chips when released.

All this is a pipe dream though.

Thanks for posting your relevant experience.

One small request - please avoid qualifying your view of a fair outcome as "a pipe dream" or similar impossibility.
Perception shapes reality.

Agreed.

We all should liaise with Steamboat at some time, about making a formal request for refund/priority in 2nd Gen etc, at some time in the future.

As to when this should be done will require some thought, but should probably be after the saga has reached a conclusion, and we are in possession of more facts.

If everything is handled properly, and the correct negotiations undertaken, there is no reason that can't end up being a win win for all parties involved.

LaserHorse

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Quote from: adamthefishman on August 09, 2013, 10:28:14 PM

I run a small business, and have some small amount of experience with shipping from China.

There is no way I would have shipped large amounts of chips in one shipment. It is too much of a risk.

Shipments should have been separated over several smaller shipments, over multiple days. He probably also should have used different delivery companies, and different packaging.

This would have resulted in at least some chips getting through.

I regard one large shipment getting stuck in customs, as bad management, and thus the fault of the business. I think a partial to full refund is in order, and priority for the 2nd Gen chips when released.

All this is a pipe dream though.

Thanks for posting your relevant experience.

One small request - please avoid qualifying your view of a fair outcome as "a pipe dream" or similar impossibility.
Perception shapes reality.

adamthefishman

member

Activity: 114

Merit: 10

I run a small business, and have some small amount of experience with shipping from China.

There is no way I would have shipped large amounts of chips in one shipment. It is too much of a risk.

Shipments should have been separated over several smaller shipments, over multiple days. He probably also should have used different delivery companies, and different packaging.

This would have resulted in at least some chips getting through.

I regard one large shipment getting stuck in customs, as bad management, and thus the fault of the business. I think a partial to full refund is in order, and priority for the 2nd Gen chips when released.

All this is a pipe dream though.

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: Xian01 on August 09, 2013, 02:42:31 PM

Quote from: cardcomm on August 09, 2013, 12:31:23 PM

And the worst part is, after he fucked us, he said "Don't worry, I'll do it again harder in October!"

No. The worst part is that there will be people willing to give him money in October after he pulled this stunt.

Yes gen2 clients should be thanking all chip buyers for funding gen2 release (if they stick to no full payment pre-orders).

driksson

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 09, 2013, 02:42:31 PM

Quote from: cardcomm on August 09, 2013, 12:31:23 PM

And the worst part is, after he fucked us, he said "Don't worry, I'll do it again harder in October!"

No. The worst part is that there will be people willing to give him money in October after he pulled this stunt.

I'm writing on a vote-poll, where i am suggesting Avalon to return all payments from the groupbuys to the managers of these purchases, and then we will all get our investments back should we want to. And those who want to remain, can gladly do so on the new "in stock order" process.
This is madness, and should never have been gone this far.

Ok guys, my VOTE/Poll is done. give me your votes!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pollvote-what-should-avalon-do-with-our-past-due-orders-270897

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: cardcomm on August 09, 2013, 12:31:23 PM

And the worst part is, after he fucked us, he said "Don't worry, I'll do it again harder in October!"

No. The worst part is that there will be people willing to give him money in October after he pulled this stunt.

KS

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Is there a status update on the parts availability for the F16 boards? I'd need another 20.

cardcomm

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The more I read through the steaming pile of bullshit posted on http://www.avalon-asics.com, the more angry I get! Frankly, it's hard enough to accept the "stuck in customs" excuse. Throwing in all that cloak and dagger garbage makes the whole story seem even more made up. And he really had the balls to advertise his next product in the same communication?!

The way I feel right now, I'll never spend another dollar on mining hardware. But I WILL spend it on an attorney. Steamboat - What legal recourse do you plan to pursue in this matter? Also, what can we do as group buy members to facilitate that?

We've all lost ROI and the group buy organizers are left holding the bag for huge amounts of money. What is the next step, and how long before we bring in a legal team?

Steamboat, I know you are blameless in all this, but could to please post something outlining your current thought process on how to deal with this mess? Hopefully you aren't putting too much credence in the "chips will resume shipping by end of next week for now" claim.

IMO, that statement should have read "ALL chips will be shipped by the end of next week" if he really wanted to avoid prosecution. This stinks to high heaven!

cardcomm

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 09, 2013, 12:22:14 AM

I can't imagine what Steamboat must be going through right now.

Let's hope we all didn't just get fucked by Yifu.

Oh, but we already did. Hard! You're gonna feel that one in the morning.

And the worst part is, after he fucked us, he said "Don't worry, I'll do it again harder in October!"

rocks

legendary

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So if Avalon is coming out with a gen2 55nm chip in October that is "for immediate delivery" what does that mean for our gen1 chip orders? Do we receive something in September at best that has one month before becoming outdated? That update was maddening.

nightengale

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Point is, if that little $h1t is being honest, this would seem to have been an avoidable delay.

driksson

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Quote from: bystander on August 09, 2013, 12:35:02 AM

Thinking back to Zefir's batch which arrived a couple weeks ago, he mentioned this:

Quote from: zefir on July 22, 2013, 03:53:13 AM

Update: 1st batch shipped

I got a a status update from Avalon - the first batch of chips has been shipped, including DHL tracking number. It should get delivered this week.

So they did send it through DHL with a tracking number, though it does seem it was shipped directly from Avalon rather than TMSC.

Factory's can send on behalf of brands/clients no problem.. Worldwide. They just call DHL, and use the clients details for payments and attach clients invoice for customs.

TomKeddie

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Quote from: powpow on August 09, 2013, 12:20:36 AM

Yes, China utilizes online tracking for all customs and can be viewed here with the tracking number (But Avalon didn't provide one):

http://service.customs.gov.cn/default.aspx?tabid=9405

I suspect a lie.

I think he is talking about the shipment to his distribution point from the foundry. Customs screw-ups are to be expected from new operations, it takes a lot of care and skill to get import/export right. I believe him, but I also think it is their fault, customs is just enforcing the law (lets assume there is no corruption at work, this might be a poor assumption).

nightengale

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Quote from: shep80 on August 09, 2013, 07:59:31 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on August 09, 2013, 12:22:14 AM

I can't imagine what Steamboat must be going through right now.

Let's hope we all didn't just get fucked by Yifu.

I very much agree with your sentiment about Steamboat. He has done a great job coordinating this process to date and it will be a shame if the venture ends up being a substantial loss for him (and his associated customers, of course).

A huge shame. From all appearances Steamboat has put together a first-class operation. One of the other chip-makers should hire him to run their logistics.

shep80

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 09, 2013, 12:22:14 AM

I can't imagine what Steamboat must be going through right now.

Let's hope we all didn't just get fucked by Yifu.

I very much agree with your sentiment about Steamboat. He has done a great job coordinating this process to date and it will be a shame if the venture ends up being a substantial loss for him (and his associated customers, of course).

Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 137. (Read 423279 times)