Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 94. (Read 423279 times)

 Not that I plan on joining an angry mob (yet), but isn't it just a bit too soon to bring out the pitchforks ?

 Ugh. I'm having trouble believing that Steamboat is intentionally screwing us.

 Here's hoping we hear something decisive and definitive this week. I will admit I am starting to become a bit impatient, however.

I hate to ask this, but didn't SB provide his personal info to John K.?

Has anyone who went through the refund request process even heard anything about the status on that?

I filled out SB's request form within the first 48 hours it was offered and still have heard nothing one way or the other about what's happening with that.

I'd find it very tough to believe that there aren't at least enough people wanting refunds to make it to 10,000 chips and do at least one batch.

I'd love to know what's happening with assembly/hosting costs as well, but at this point that's not as pressing for me as getting some information about these chip refunds.

he wont answer to anyone .. wich is really .... disappointing

Hi Steamboat

Can you issue the refund on one of the batch orders? say #2?

im sure more than enough people want their cash back ASAP.

Something to read from bkk thread....
Steamboat silence is very bad!!!

Lack of updates is really a problem here.

When things were going great, updates were almost constant.

Now that there are challenges, there are no - or at best very infrequent - updates.

+1

This!!!  ^^^

Please tell us what's going on SB!!!

By and large if you look at all the other big groupbuy organizers they have all been refunded for all the orders they requested - they have also finished refunding individual buyers. Sebastian had refunded 40,000 chip orders, zefir another 30,000 and then moved on to a bitfury group buy. Problem here is without communication we don't know where we stand.

Damn. If this is the case I will be disappointed but sadly not surprised.

Yifu did this before with batch 3. One group buy organizer had ordered 50 Avalons, but then when they were delayed and the refund option was offered, he asked for the refund. He got no response, inquired repeatedly and then weeks later all 50 units shipped. When they arrived he just had to make the best of it. This feels like what is happening to us -- Yifu processed some refunds for chips, but when they received more chips they just said, "Eh, ship them and let the customers deal with it."

OK, here's how I see things:
1. We can refund 95% of the chip cost.
2. Steamboat has already purchased materials and entered into agreements to produce boards, leased and begun work on a hosting center, paid for a large number of custom heat-sinks, and probably purchased lots of other equipment.
3. Many other people are in the same situation, including BKKCoins, who has personally invested a great deal of time and money into producing the K16 and K1 boards.

The chip cost can be refunded, because that comes from Yifu. The other costs are not reversible.

Our options at this point are:
1. roll up the whole thing and individually take a loss
2. enter into costly and ultimately fruitless litigation
3. retarget the K16 board for another mining chip

I'm not in favour of giving up. I've personally invested in 128 K16 boards, paid from previous mining income. I'm sure lots of others would prefer to (at the very least) break even on this venture.

Litigation is only worthwhile when you're up against an entity with lots of money. Otherwise, only the lawyers benefit. Besides, the terms of the purchase agreement were crystal clear: this was a risky venture with many unknowns. This is not Steamboat's fault. This probably isn't even Yifu's fault. We don't know what happened.

That leaves retargeting for another chip. Most of the BOM probably won't change, and the most expensive parts (the PIC, the regs) almost certainly won't change. If we collectively get refunded for all batches, we'll be in a good position to negotiate for bulk purchase from a chip producer that is actually shipping product. At least one other group has retargeted to Bitfury's offering. I think we should take a more wait-and-see approach and not make the same mistake by targeting a chip that isn't shipping. We're not going to make an easy buck at this point, so we might as well be rational about how we're going to proceed.

Perhaps this sentiment is being used to keep more orders unrefunded.  No updates, unknowns, and uncertainty is preventing some refunds being submitted.  I can't see the entire assembly cost being lost--if it were, what would the assembly crew be paid with when/if the chips come in?

I can't request a refund until I know how much I can get back on assembly. 

So, steamboat, what's the tally? Have you gotten a batch refunded yet? Or are you still waiting for them to deliver so you can build your rigs?

@hoss

http://btc.anapaapps.com/


interesting BTC calc with % increases

I think you are being optimistic about how much assembling the boards and mining would net you. What is your expected start date? You should factor in at least 2 more retargets, if you think assembly will go without a hitch.

Not to mention hosting. I've already paid the set-up fee for hosting too. Really hate being stuck in limbo.

I REALLY wish Steamboat would comment again and revise his "no assembly refunds" policy. That's really unfortunate and essentially theft if he keeps our ~$60 assembly cost (not incl. the ~$30 BOM parts). I would at least like an explanation as to why he feels he needs to keep that section of the overall cost. Maybe there's a non-refundable deposit to some degree, and we can only get 2/3 or even half of that $60 back, its better than nothing. It's looking like completing assembly and running our boards will net us just above the amount of money we would get if we just refunded and skipped the headache.

It's a sorry state of affairs, we all lost here. I'd appreciate if my money for assembly wasn't kept for an undisclosed reason, Steamboat. Explain the situation to us, or refund us the $60 assembly per board. This way myself and many others could get a full chip refund, and a majority of us can get more than the paltry chip refund back.

In my case,

~$2565 back in chips
~$1408 back in assembly
~$650 loss (5% to you, $30/board BOM parts.). <-- I can live with this, it was part of the risk after all.

Estimated Losses by option:
Chip refund only: -$2058
Est. from mining: -$1498
Chips and $60/board assembly refund: -$650

Man, that $650 loss looks so good right about now. Please, do the right thing and find a way to refund us our not-yet-performed assembly that we paid two months early up-front. It would make so many of us happy.