Topic: Litecoin Is NOT Dead (It Is Just Dying A Slow Death) - page 17. (Read 28336 times)

No, but I like to pretend to be one.


I'd venture to say there are more companies that have failed, or at the very least not done as well as they could have done, by not embracing innovation and being more forward thinking. In the OP I listed a whole paragraph of them that dwarfs your tiny list of examples in one industry, and I even forgot one of the biggest ones... AOL. I believe my examples were mostly technology companies, as with crypto currencies, things develop quickly and those that don't innovate and adapt are left behind. It is completely different than the automobile industry which technology is not really advancing at such a fast pace. We could sit here naming companies that have innovated and been successful, and companies that have not innovated and still been successful all night. This is again an opinion and it seems yours differs from mine, the difference is you act like your statements are facts when I admit my opinions are just that... opinions.

I guess it also depends on how you measure success. Success to me is staying as the #2 crypto currency or maybe even surpassing Bitcoin. If you deem Litecoin to be successful just as long as it doesn't die (which admittedly is impossible.. scotcoin is still kicking, see last page of coin market cap), then I guess that is again your opinion.

I hate that I have to explain myself again as I've already gone over the following in great detail in his thread. It would be nice if you actually read the thread before posting.

I've gone over market acceptance and the network effect already in this thread if you would have read it before posting. As to market acceptance.. payment processors will add the most popular crypto currencies regardless of whether their name is Bitcoin or Litecoin. The reason for that is merchants will get more business than they would have if they only accepted Bitcoin or Litecoin. I am certain I received a few extra sales for physical Litecoins because of the fact I used coinpayments.net as my payment processor which accepts 30+ alternative crypto currencies. I had a few people pay in coins that are not named Bitcoin and Litecoin, and Im not sure if I would of made those sales if I only accepted Bitcoin and Litecoin. It just makes sense to merchants to give their customers as many options for payment as possible, so that they can do more business than they otherwise would have been able to do by only accepting one or two coins. The most forward thinking payment processors will become the most popular ones, those that only process payments for one or two coins will slowly be phased out as merchants pick the payment processors that give their customers more options to pay. If you get paid with a crypto currency that you don't want to keep, it is stupidly easy to have an exchange like Cryptsy automatically and instantly (or place an order on the top of the sell side and wait a bit) exchange those coins for a coin that you do want. This is all a no brainer to me.. it is not even up for discussion. Other popular coins will become just as widely accepted as Bitcoin and Litecoin over time due to these reasons.

I agree the Litecoin has the network effect going for it, however I think most Litecoiners overestimate the importance of the network effect when it comes to Litecoin. They see how important Bitcoin's network effect has been to its success, and think it will automatically translate over to Litecoin. Bitcoin's network effect is much stronger than Litecoins. Bitcoin is the one in the news all day everyday, not Litecoin. Litecoin's network effect is somewhat limited in scope to those that are already in the crypto currency community, someone is exponentially more likely to find out about Bitcoin before Litecoin, due to its network effect being much stronger. Since Litecoin's network effect is somewhat limited to this community, people are more likely to see through the bullshit arguments for Litecoin and see it for what it is... Bitcoin with a few changed parameters.


Well, I can certainly tell that you can speak for yourself.


The free market agrees with me over the past six months, so by your own statement you have proven yourself wrong. The same amount of Litecoins can only buy about half of the Bitcoins they could of bought 6 months ago. The free market is seeing what I am seeing, and only the true hardcore Litecoiners are left living in denial.


Yes, you are right that is one instance of Litecoin being 3 releases behind as being a good thing. Actually... the only instance of that. Congratulations.

What I meant by that statement is that if another crypto currency was to become so popular due to its features and innovations over Bitcoin, that Litecoin is dead in the water. If Litecoin would embrace innovation and be more forward thinking, then they would still have a chance in this scenario because they would have more features than Bitcoin does and less likely to topple.

#1 - I am not a developer
#2 - I do not own any Litecoins and haven't for about 6 months or so.
#3 - Since I don't own any Litecoins, I didn't feel it neccessary to put it upon myself to do all the work of forming a team to create new features on top of Litecoin. What would be in it for me since I don't own any Litecoins? Again, although I like to spend my free time supporting causes I am interested in and think are important, making people who own Litecoins rich is not one of those causes. As I've said to you before, I don't see you over on the Feathercoin forums trying to help out Feathercoin. Why is that? Probbly because you don't own any Feathercoins. That is just a random example, but would be applicable for any crypto currency you are not interested in and/or do not own.


I direct you to my last statement, I did not (and still don't) own any Litecoins at the time, and it is not my job to make you guys rich. It is not my fault that you guys can't see where crypto currencies are headed in the next 1 to 2 years. I think you will realize that new and improved (innovative..) features are a good thing for crypto currencies to compete in this very competitive industry.

1. You are right, no one makes anyone pay for mining hardware, however when all mining hardware available is unprofitable, what is the point of buying it in the first place? Many people that have bought Bitcoin ASICs (and now.. Scrypt ASICs) are starting to realize it's a fools game. Once this sentiment is shared by the community, the network will become more decentralized than ever as old money crypto, corporations, and old money FIAT take over mining. Again, at that point it is not a decentralized currency like what you are advertising it to be.

2. A hard fork is better than mining being monopolized by old money crypto, corporations, and old money FIAT. Crypto currencies are marketed as being a currency by the people for the people, but that will not be the case once they are controlled by a small group of powerful individuals. They can literally do anything they want at that point. I have faith that someone will find a way to block out ASICs from mining, as I think it is a horrible thing for a decentralized currency. If not, then there are always PoW alternatives like PoS. I think PoW is on its death bed as it's so wasteful. I again point to Forbes estimating that in December $15 million in electricity is wasted by securing the Bitcoin block chain every day. If you are 100% for PoW and not alternatives like PoS, then I feel like you must hate planet earth. There are other more sensible choices that don't use a fraction of those energy costs. Furthermore, there are certain use cases like Primecoin which actually do something useful to society with their PoW. Sure, finding prime numbers is not all that exciting, but it helps in the advancement of mathmatics which is a lot more than SHA256/Scrypt can say. There are other interesting use cases like coins that award users for BOINC processing etcetera. If we're going to burn the electricity and you insist on using PoW, then we might as well be doing something useful with it. These are only the first use cases of using PoW to do something useful, I have a feeling that more will come along that will be deemed "more useful" than its predecessors. Primecoin was important in that it showed that the PoW can be so much more than just a waste of energy and securing the block chain.

3. Complaining that ASIC mining is fool's game is just the sad reality of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining today. Since I'm so bad at picking ASIC horses, how about you go purchase some ASICs and come back to tell me how you do. I would be shocked if you broke even in terms of Bitcoin. There are many people on these forums that know where I am coming from when I say that ASIC mining is a fool's game. The ASIC manufacturers squeeze all of the profit out of mining, leaving their customers lucky to earn back their money and left with worthless mining equipment.


I do not think that the newer coins will become more popular than Litecoin because of their security, they will beat Litecoin because they are more forward thinking and innovative than Litecoin. The security issues will be solved over time, and people will trust the newer coins more and more as time goes on and no problems are had. Sure, they may not embrace them quickly.. this is why I'm giving Litecoin 1-2 years to stay at #2. Furthermore, over time more and more developers will look at, analyze, and update the code base of these coins, making them just as secure as Litecoin today. To say that just because a crypto currency is new it is not as secure as Litecoin is baloney. If the developers were well educated, smart, and security focused, there is not reason why their crypto currencies couldn't be as secure or even more secure than Litecoin.


At least we agree on something.


He was gone for months, and as I said in the OP I am not judging him for that, but it was hard not to notice the coincidence that he showed back up when Litecoin went up to $0.15-$0.30. Ever since Litecoin blew up in price he has been a lot more active as far as posting and development, but for a long time people (me including) were upset with him for the lack of updates and were worried about Litecoin. Litecoin was way further behind on updates at that time, much more so than only 1 or 2 updates. Even if he is busy with real life, he could of recruited help (which it seems that's what he ended up doing.) However, he didn't do that until he saw Litecoin rising in value and realized it could actually be worth something one day. It seemed like it was just a hobby he lost interest in for before then.


Yes, this was a factor in my decision to leave. This was not the only case of the developers ignoring me, as you can see in my "community project: let's create a protocol on top of Litecoin" thread. That was the final nail in the coffin when I was completely ignored in that thread and the thread was moved to alternative crypto currency subforum. Maybe its just me, but if I was the creator of Litecoin, I would go above and beyond to support the people that are putting forth a real effort to further the Litecoin brand and name recognition. I can't help but notice him supporting and posting in your and Coinographic's threads and voicing his excitement and support... he really seems genuine. It is odd that I got left out of that group.. if he doesn't have the time, why does he have time for you guys? This goes back to my thinking that there is a click in Litecoin that is hard to get into. I'm not sure who Coinographic is, but I would venture to say they've been around for a while and are part of the "good ole' boys" club like you are. If I am not appreciated for what I am doing, then I am not going to continue to do it. I didn't make ANY money off of making and selling coins.. it all went to my bad decision for a BTC denominated loan. I am still paying for that decision today.

So in summary, yes that was a factor to my decision but it obviously is not the only one. Maybe that is a bit childish and I can see how you could think that, but it is what it is. "I ams who I am" - Popeye


I agree there is a market for faster transaction confirmations, however there are coins that are faster than Litecoin so I don't see Litecoin as being the solution to this. Who is going to want to even wait 2.5 minutes to pay for a cup of coffee?? Answer: no one. The reasoning Litecoin supporters have given for not going with a quicker block time than 2.5 minutes have been proven false by a lot of the copy and paste coins that came out. They claimed that they would be filled with problems like stales and forks, however it has been proven that a block time of one minute to two and a half minutes is not the end of the world like Litecoin supporters had claimed. Since there exists much quicker block speed coins, I don't see this as being a reason for Litecoin to be #2.

Furthermore, many merchants and payment processors process small payments (like a cup of coffee would be) instantly because a confirmation for a $2 purchase is not really necessary. The amount of times you're going to get double spent on are going to be so small compared to the instances where the transaction will happen as advertised across the network.


Yes, but the newer more innovative and more forward thinking coins may not share that same sentiment.  

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

+1

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years 

Are you a financial advisor?


Since when does innovation = success and only in that case? How about I name drop on you: Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc. They all COPIED Ford yet they haven't changed much about the design of a car in the innovative sense, yet they have been successful.

innovation =/= success
innovation =/= market acceptance
innovation =/= network effect


Thanks we can all speak for ourselves. The free market will speak for itself as well and prove your statement true or not. But it isn't for you to claim it as true.


Looks like Litecoin did just well when Bitcoin forked the block chain in March of 2013 due to the fact that it was 1 or 2 releases/versions behind Bitcoin.


So you were depending/expecting others to do it? Why don't you take it upon yourself to hire people to do what you want to get implemented then have it released out into the wild so people can choose to adopt or not? That seems like a better approach than yours described above as a "hard push" which equates to posting on a forum. lol


You sound very judgmental here. Not everyone can always respond to everyone and just because you didn't get an answer or the answer you wanted isn't reason enough to give up and whine. I've donated to the litecoin development team 1000 LTC and haven't made as much ruckus about them ignoring people as you have. Time and time again?  You make like you donated enough funds to get the changes you wanted done done. Yet you should just get it done yourself if you are that passionate about it instead of complaining so-in-so is not doing what I asked or isn't responding to my request for these changes.


1. No one makes people pay for hardware. They can make their own choice.

2. ASICs can't be stopped. Changing the mining algorithm would mean a hard fork which likely will burn many users who are not paying attention to the update. Also it would only delay the inevitable that ASICs would be created to do the calculations for the new mining algorithm.

3. Complaining that mining is a fool's game sounds like your version of not looking at the risks of mining before investing and now hind-sight is getting the best of you.


And you think newer code bases for other coins which have not been as extensively tested for flaws would be a better choice? lol


For once I agree with you. The genie is out of the bottle.



Well boo hoo.



No one is required to be at a certain place at a certain time. Some of us have lives and to make a judgement purely on him is childish.


So because in your view Charles didn't "support" your physical coin efforts in the way that you had expected you are going to complain about it? Charles wasn't always available to me when I sought him out. But you don't hear me crying about it as I am aware he is a family man and has much more important responsibilities than "making Coinhoarder feel like he is supported in his physical litecoin endeavor". lol

I have much more respect for Coinographic because so far he has not given me a reason to not like him. He so far has kept his word and looks like he has his sh*t together. There are some things he has yet to deliver on but time will tell on that. He hasn't used me or my coins as a basis to lift the development of his coins up (in words) as you have done in the past.


I personally believe there is a market for faster transaction confirmations. Bigger purchases can stomach longer confirmations like in Bitcoin. But if you are going to pay for coffee who will wait for 10-60 minutes for a bitcoin confirmation? There has to be something to fill that market. Whether it is LTC or not is  irrelevant. The faster block times in my view is a good positioning mechanism in the crypto space at least for litecoin it is.


Last I checked Litecoin was never meant to replace Bitcoin.

This is my side of the story saigon, here is the unedited post (although I see a couple things I'd like to change/elaborate on.. but whatever, here it is:)

As I have explained over at the Litecoin forums in a separate thread where I addressed what Smoothie had to say about me (I will quote it after this post so you can hear my side of the story.) I would of left Litecoin whether or not I made the donation. All of my donations to the Litecoin development team have been no strings attached. This is something I cared very deeply about and I thought it was necessary that Litecoin make some changes to stay relevant. Smoothie is the one that accused me of trying to bribe the developers to get my way, which couldn't be further from the truth. This is just another case of Smoothie speaking of things he knows nothing about.

Smoothie has been talking crap about me on Litecointalk and Bitcointalk forums, so this is why I feel the need to defend myself. If someone started attacking you would you just sit there and take the blows? Sorry, but I'm not Jesus.

I haven't chosen which coin I'm going to support next, but I can tell you the projects that I find are interesting to me. In no certain order... Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, Nxt, Maidsafe, Monero, and Zerocash. I am still deciding, but there's no reason why I couldn't support a few or all of these projects.. they are all much more interesting to me than Litecoin ever was. I am sure I'm forgetting a few too.. there are so many awesome new coins coming out.

I've thought that the transaction volume would eventually get so high that the Bitcoin block chain is stressed to the point people are paying higher than the minimum fee to get transactions processed and that pressure would be the motivation to move latterly into other coins such as litecoin.

Ok - so read through the Litecoin Talk thread...It seems to me that Coinhoarder donated $1000 worth of LTC - his suggestions for changes to Litecoin were 'ignored' - this seems to have upset him. Unfortunately donations to the developers does not give a right to dictate Litecoins future, very much like what Goat did when he setup the Litecoin Foundation with an agenda to sell physical Litecoins. Donations should show support for Litecoin, not follow up with getting upset when the developers didn't do what you wanted.  

Its a shame you turned your back on Litecoin, but your posting tone is pretty arrogant - you supposedly left Litecoin in April but seem upset enough months later to continue posting about it. Your OP had some valid points but your tone lately shows someone who is upset, pissed off and hurt they were not listened too.

OP - What crypto community did you join after your left LTC? Genuinely curious..

Vague comments? I have been the most thorough person in this thread when it comes to explaining what I believe and why I believe it.

I am as sure of my prediction as you are that Litecoin will remain #2. No one can tell the future, and I am not claiming to be a fortune teller. I am stating my opinions that are based on facts and events that have happened over the past couple years.

I'm talking about the bullshit arguments that Litecoiners use to support the reason for its value, most of them are ridiculous.

I don't know how I can be any more clear. I think Litecoin will be replaced as the #2 crypto currency in the next 1 to 2 years, possibly sooner. That is not vague at all, what did you want.. an exact date and time this will happen?  

did g1 scrypt asics arrive in higher numbers than sha-256 asics did?  what happened to btc prices after the first asics were released?

and if something were to knock down litecoin, there would need to be a reason to pull asics from ltc blockchain.  what would replace litecoin in a year?

Looks like your word means nothing as you still have me not ignored lol.  

What bullshit are you talking about?

Are you claiming the following?

"I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year"

If so, well doesn't sound like you are too sure on your prediction as it is rather general and doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot.

Perhaps you can be more clear on your stance as opposed to making vague comments and then being able to retract and side step when proven wrong? Thanks

lol it will be refreshing to have you actually stick to something you say you are going to do.

If I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year, how is talking about it right now prolonging its life? If anything I am exposing the bullshit that you guys keep spreading about Litecoin.

Again, lets debate the arguments for/against Litecoin Smoothie, I'm ready for you. I've just been warming up the first 6 pages of this thread.

Yeah Smoothie, I'm just going to let you unload on me and not defend myself...

When I saw 8 ignored posts from you I had a feeling you were talking shit about me and I was right.

I have the right to defend myself.. anyways as you say I'm not a man of my word, so did you really expect me to keep you on ignore like I had said I would?

Again, feel free to debate the arguments I made against Litecoin, otherwise you are dead to me.

lol there you have it people...CH made this thread because of me and how he did not like how I spoke about him leaving the LTC community which is something he made public for everyone to read.

Because I had an opinion doesn't mean it was rude. It was only rude in your opinion, not in actual facts.

Anyone is welcome to go over and read what CH wrote before he "left" then came back. lol

CH claims Litecoin is dying a slow death (meaning it will die at some point) yet is still talking about LTC which keeps it alive. Genius. 

Ahh lol I now see that you retracted your statement that I was put on ignore.

Funny to know you can't even stand to stick to your word even on that one. lolz

"irrelevancy"....nice back pedal there.  

It never ceases to amaze me how much crying you do. You remind me of Goat who does the exact same thing when he gets called out on his BS.

You making comments about smart money and not actually being in the smart money group says you are full of it. The fact that you went silent for over a month while your mining hardware customers/investors were waiting for you to respond to them is very telling of your character. They lost out on mining opportunity and all you can really say is "sorry guys" and send them a few extra cables to attempt to make it "right".

Track record is a good indicator of someone's bullshit levels when they talk. For you I still call it how I see it. You are one to over-promise and under deliver, make statements that you are disqualified in making as you haven't lived it yourself, and then at the first sign of opposition you end up running away as you did with Litecoin.

If you can't handle what I have to say I suggest you put me on ignore again as I will continue to be honest in how I see things. If that is too much for you, you should run along with your ignoring.

BTW your thread is doing absolutely nothing but entertaining myself as well as others as to the inconsistencies you keep making in your statements and actions. Your thread is actually keeping LTC revelant and alive as we are still discussing it.

Nice job there BTW. 

this

Ah Smoothie... I've been waiting for you.

I'm not surprised that you would try to focus on technicalities of the English language, and not on the arguments I have made against Litecoin. I know you are one to cherry pick the statements that support your cause and ignore the ones that don't, so I won't judge you for this. Perhaps dying is the wrong word, and "irrelevancy" is more appropriate.


You are actually the reason I started this thread. You talked very rudely about me on the Litecoin forums about my decision to not support Litecoin anymore, so I thought I would explain myself to everyone the reasons for my decision. Also, the Litecoin faithful are going around spewing their usual marketing strategies based on half truths, so I thought I would let it be known that not everyone feels that way. I am different from the other anti-Litecoin trolls in that I was a dedicated supporter of Litecoin for a very long time, and I have recently changed my mind. I thought people would be interested as to why, and it seems they are as this thread is pretty long for being up less than a day.


Some of my opinion is based on speculation, but a lot of it is based off of facts. The truth of the matter is no one knows what will happen in the future, but this is how I think it will play out. As to me being butthurt, grow up Smoothie. I am not crying... I am laughing at how ignorant all of you are and pointing out how hypocritical the arguments for Litecoin being the #2 crypto currency are. I am certain I will have the last laugh. If you want to refute some of the points I have made in this thread then go ahead and I will debate them with you, but it seems all you have are personal insults.

There you are again nitpicking on the words of "death" and "dying", use "irrelevant" instead if it makes you feel any better.


I have made some poor business and life decisions, but part of those poor decisions are not my ability to pick crypto currencies that are likely to blow up in value. I was right about Bitcoin and I was right about Litecoin, some of my friends and family have made bank because of me suggesting them to invest into them. However, the crypto currency landscape is changing quickly and I can no longer say Litecoin is a sure bet for obvious reasons. I have already stated most all of them, again, if you would like to debate them then lets go at it, however if all you can do is insult me then I'm just going to put you back on ignore like you were before I saw 8 ignored posts by Smoothie in this thread. This is why I have you ignored, all you can do is hurl insults at me and you can't really back up your reasoning for supporting Litecoin.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.