Topic: (locked due to hijack) - page 2. (Read 4545 times)

And to show just how bad an Idea I think this is at this Point I donated 25$ to NORML to support the right way of changing things that are wrong. Do it the right way or NORML would have opened a shop to support there movement long ago. They have lawyers  that tell them this is not a good idea, or they would have farms and such to support the movement.
In memory of Viceroy

I will not remove my posts, no one should ever remove there posts. Your gamble has legal implications for anyone tied to it.
If I buy 50 acme's for 500 dollars then sell them for 500 dollars and transfer them to my bank account its still money laundering per US law.

You should be aware that there are several members of congress and the senate who abhor the IRS abuse and they are right now authoring laws to stop this rampant abuse.  The IRS does not make law and until the law changes to reflect this industry there will continue to be issues.
So nothing has changed yet which will still makes you that nasty word.

Lets see you business plan... with in 24 hours or I declare you do not have one... and are another pirate40 fishing for free money. Time 1:15pm EST till 1:15pm EST sunday

Civil Disobedience:The refusal to comply with certain laws or to pay taxes and fines, as a peaceful form of political protest.

Does not mean break the law....

I am telling you your headed for a road you will not want to walk down at this point in time. 1 name "Mark Emery" this shows the U.S. gov don't care how you do, where you do it. If they don't like it your singing the Folsum prison blues...

Now defend why Mark Emery is where he is.. how that is legal and why it won't happen to you or or business?

You do not support NORML nor the overturning of prohibition.  You are a prohibitionist shill who prefers to cut and paste information of propaganda.  If you'd like to have an intelligent conversation let's start by your erasing the WALL OF NON-RELATED TEXT that you chose to hijack my thread with.



If you could actually read you'd see that I wrote, and I quote "Here's a few facts for those interested...  The DEA while aware of a publicly available list of nearly 500 dispensaries in Colorado has done NOTHING to shut any down with the exception of stores that were within 1000 of a public school". 


Yes it is correct that in the major cities of the Netherlands they are attempting to stop marijuana tourism, and that is related how?


Well to be fair I think it's clear that thousands and thousands of people believe and accept that memo as the position of the DOJ on medical marijuana.  That, now famous, David Ogden memo was the impetus for the creation of 95% of dispensaries today.


Actually the reason the DOJ has used for most of the actions in California is exactly related to the IRS.  California law, unlike Colorado law, prevents dispensaries from operating as "for-profit" entities.  The VAST MAJORITY of DEA actions against California dispensaries was based upon the dispensaries "making a profit" which is verboten.  Additional DEA action in California came as a result of local law enforcement requesting their help.  The only case known where one of these two factors does not come into play is the current action against Harborside who Melinda Hagg said "is too big".


I'm asking for 75BTC and I make it clear in my OP that this is a gamble.  I know it's hard to see that with your WALL OF PROPAGANDA between this post and that.


Nope, that is certainly not the case.  I'm certain that bitcoins are not money and I am not hiding anything from anyone.  In fact all accounting in this industry is shared with Colorado's Department of Revenue.  Money Laundering is not something that the state Department of Revenue will allow or stand for.  All of this goes through the taxman.


You should be aware that there are several members of congress and the senate who abhor the IRS abuse and they are right now authoring laws to stop this rampant abuse.  The IRS does not make law and until the law changes to reflect this industry there will continue to be issues. 


I have a comprehensive business plan for a chain of medical marijuana retail store fronts and a large indoor production facility that took me months to write.  I have just begun working on this project based upon the overwhelming support among Bitcoiners on these forums. 

What you are asking for is an impossibly. A plan cannot be written that provides contingencies for all problems as the Fed has not yet decriminalized marijuana.  This November 6th in the general election we in Colorado will vote to enact a new Amendment which will put us at direct odds with the federal government.  Like was done at the end of alcohol prohibition we will be the first state to allow the sale, use and possession of marijuana by adults 21+ without any need for a "red card".

What we, in the industry, are all doing is something called "Civil Disobedience".  Like Ghandi we are standing up to the powers that be and saying "we are not going to take this anymore".  Not unlike what users of Bitcoin are saying to the worlds financial institutions.


280E was originally written to prevent organized crime syndicates from writing off their illegal gains.  In our case the regulation prevents people from writing off expenses incurred while producing or selling drugs. This is a MAJOR issue facing dispensaries and grows but lending or holding money for people is NOT ILLEGAL and therefore not subject to 280E (not to mention Bitcoins are not money).


I'm not being a defensive ass, you are being a propagandist ass.  Now, kindly, remove your non-related wall of text.

No don't ignore me cause, I can point flaws out....... If I did that with all my ideas, I would have well not many to talk to. Stop being asses and take constructive critique. If it was up to me we would do like the good book says in verse 1 page one.

Dude, you're out of your fucking mind.



Viceroy mentioned these shutdowns already...

Welcome to ignoreland, population you.

What kind of business are you going to register as on you LLC? You daft for thinking that this stuff does not actually happen. I was actually going to invest, but since you have no regard for the chance of gov intervention, I won't. You need to stop being a "pot head" wake up.
I SUPPORT NORML YOU DAFT ASS

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/08/us_attorney_shutting_more_colorado_marijuana_dispe.php
Don't try to hide the risk from investors on bitcoin. Now if you think the DEA is not going to move in on these letters sent if the FTC "failure to comply" then you need to re-evaluate your business. Maybe move it to Netherlands.... but wait they are changing the laws
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world/europe/dutch-law-would-stop-sale-of-marijuana-to-tourists.html?pagewanted=all

If you believe that stupid 'Memo" Obama released your a stooge, that shit did not hold. Thats why they went into cali still right? Thats why The IRS will not give deductions to ANY DRUG RELATED BUSINESS. http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/06/us-tax-court-says-pot-is-deductible-for.
http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/495779/california_marijuana_dispensaries_hit_with_big_tax_bills/

Dude research....  You make one wrong move your ass is "grass" as well as everyone's funds.

What you are in essence proposing is  Money Laundering, by Federal standards. The reason the feds are using the tax law is to trump the state law. I wish you luck but I think you are way over your head. Show me a business plan with, contingency's for all these problems and people might feel a little more at ease with this investment.

Such as how are you going to convert Bitcoin to USD, and pay the tax man "Federal". Once you pay him hes got your number any time he wants to call it.  Do you have any idea how your going to handle 280E?, have you consulted legal advise? You local Laws? these are all things investors need and want to know.

Don't be a defensive ass cause you plan is high risk and people are going to point problems with it. Its bitcoin if you don't like it I suggest you leave now. At this point you asking for coins we have them....

Detailed plan would be nice or are you just throwing a ummmm ill thought idea out right now?

A pretty good bullshit story. A bitcoin address.  Nuff said.

You are right, I changed the wording, I meant that the DOJ has a WELL KNOWN PROPAGANDIST SITE.  Yes, that is what I said.  Come arrest me now AG Holder I've told the world your site is full of propaganda, I live on Weaver Drive in Colorado Springs.  I'll be the guy smoking a joint and laughing on his front porch. 

DrugWarFacts.org is indeed owned by a non-profit who does good work.

Thank you for the correction.  

His wall of text was actually from DrugWarFacts.org, an anti-prohibition site, with all stated facts being sourced from reputable locations. But yeah, I don't think he actually read it, just copied an entire page and posted it to scare you.

Talking about this venture online is NOT dangerous.  I am an American and I am allowed to speak freely about anything I choose.  I have no fear of the FED or any other group coming to my house and arresting me for anything as I have not broken any laws.  Your need to cut and paste from a well-known propagandist sources is not welcome, please go hijack someone else's thread.

I am happy to discuss facts but I will not wast my time responding to your wall of bullshit.  If you want facts you should do research not a cut and paste from the DOJ website.  Pah-leeze.

Here's a few facts for those interested...  The DEA while aware of a publicly available list of nearly 500 dispensaries in Colorado has done NOTHING to shut any down with the exception of stores that were within 1000 of a public school.  


Here is the federal governments position, from 2009: "As a general matter, pursuit of these priorities should not focus federal resources in your States on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana."  Do you know how many DEA raids have occurred at licensed dispensaries in Colorado since that memo?  ZERO!!!!!

I am not proposing to make an actual bank, that would be silly as I do not have access to the necessary $25,000,000 minimum capitalization required.  Nor would I waste my time as that does not solve the problem, I made it clear that BANKS do not accept these accounts in the OP.

I am proposing a "bank-like" operation.  Further the "bank-like" operation would be NO MORE ILLEGAL THAN BITCOIN IS ALREADY as the lending and holding and mining of bitcoins is NOT ILLEGAL ANYWHERE.

Please deal with facts, not propaganda posted by prohibitionists.

You do understand talking about this venture online is extremely dangerous? There is feds that watch this forum I can promise you that. Even though you think your safe in your state, the feds will trump your state law. They will trace your I.P. come to your house and confiscate and/or arrest you. Now turn to the banking business side, can not and will not happen. Reason being the IRS will chew you alive, you could not deduct 1 penny for costs or business expenses. You will have to pay full taxes on EVERY THING earned. The federal gov has also made it VERY clear they will come and take your shit if it is used in the crime.


From Drug Facts.org

(asset forfeiture - definition & outcomes) "Administrative forfeiture is the process by which property may be forfeited to the United States without judicial involvement. Federal seizing agencies perform administrative forfeitures. Seizures must be based on probable cause. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in 19 U.S.C. § 1607.

"Administrative forfeiture can be used to seize and forfeit the following:
• any amount of currency;
• personal property valued at $500,000 or less, including cars, guns, and boats;
• hauling conveyances of unlimited value.

"Real property cannot be forfeited administratively.

"Criminal forfeiture is an action brought as part of the criminal prosecution of a defendant that includes the forfeiture of property used or derived from the crime. If the defendant is convicted, the judge or the jury may find that the property is forfeitable. Forfeiture is limited to the property interests of the defendant and only to property involved in the particular counts on which the defendant is convicted. Only the defendant’s interest can be forfeited in a criminal case because criminal forfeiture is part of the sentence in the criminal case.

"Civil forfeiture is a proceeding brought against the property rather than against the person who committed the offense. Civil forfeiture does not require either criminal charges against the owner of the property or a criminal conviction.

"To obtain a federal forfeiture, the Government must prove the forfeiture and the connection between the property and the crime by a preponderance of the evidence. Forfeiture may be applicable to property that is traceable as proceeds of the offense, that facilitated the offense, or that was involved in money laundering. All claims of interest or ownership in the property, such as property owned by third parties, are resolved in a single trial."

Source: Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section, "Guide to Equitable Sharing for State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies." (Washington DC: U.S. Justice Department, April 2009), Appendix A. pp. 31-32.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/ri/projects/esguidelines.pdf

(asset forfeiture - definition) "...civil forfeiture is a legal fiction that enables law enforcement to take legal action against inanimate objects for participation in alleged criminal activity, regardless of whether the property owner is guilty or innocent—or even whether the owner is charged with a crime. Civil forfeiture actions are in rem proceedings, which means literally “against a thing”—the property itself is charged with a crime."

Source: Williams, Marian R.; Holcomb, Jefferson H.; Kovandzic, Tomislav V; and Bullock, Scott, "Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture," The Institute for Justice (Arlington, VA: March, 2010), pp. 9-10.
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeituretoemail.pd...

(asset forfeiture - mechanisms) "Civil forfeiture can occur via three mechanisms:

"1. Summary forfeiture occurs when property is summarily seized. Property subject to summary forfeiture is typically contraband, such as illegal narcotics and drug paraphernalia.

"2. Administrative forfeiture is usually commenced against property valued at less than $500,000, or against cash of any value. Administrative proceedings are conducted by the seizing agency; the government initiates a forfeiture action and will take ownership of the property if no one steps forward to contest the forfeiture.§ Real property is not subject to administrative forfeiture, even if it is valued at less than $500,000. Probable cause is the requisite standard in administrative forfeiture (as it is roughly analogous to preponderance of evidence).

"3. Civil judicial forfeiture proceedings occur before a judge. It is akin to a trial. If the value of the property in question exceeds $500,000 (or a claim of ownership is filed or real property is involved), this is the mechanism of choice."

Editor's Note: This source contains several sections that may be of interest to readers concerned with asset forfeiture:
• Appendix B: Disposition Statutes by State (p. 37)
• Appendix C: National Code of Professional Conduct for Asset Forfeiture (p. 39)
• Appendix D: National District Attorneys Association Guidelines for Civil Asset Forfeiture (p. 41)

Source: Worrall, John L., "Asset Forfeiture," Center for Problem-Oriented Policing (Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, November 2008), p. 4.
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e1108-Asset-Forfeiture....

(asset forfeiture - history of civil forfeiture) "... in civil forfeiture, the government proceeds against the property directly, as if the property somehow acted to assist in the commission of a crime. It is a scheme based on 18th-century maritime law that permitted courts to obtain jurisdiction over property when it was virtually impossible to obtain jurisdiction over the property owners—pirates, for example—guilty of violating the law.

"Although civil forfeiture remained a relative backwater in American law for many years, modern civil forfeiture expanded greatly during the early 1980s as governments at all levels stepped up the war on drugs. No longer tied to the practical necessities of enforcing maritime law, the forfeiture power now applies to a broad range of crimes. Almost all states and the federal government have civil forfeiture laws, and Georgia’s is among the worst."

Source: Worrall, John L., "Asset Forfeiture," Center for Problem-Oriented Policing (Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, November 2008), p. 4.
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/forfeitingaccountabilityf...

(asset forfeiture - funds drug enforcement agencies) "For many years, law enforcement agencies around the nation have faced shrinking budgets.4 Police administrators have been forced to develop creative budgeting strategies, such as securing federal grants and partnering with community foundations.5 Though it is an enforcement tool, asset forfeiture can assist in the budgeting realm by helping to offset the costs associated with fighting crime. Doing what it takes to undermine the illicit drug trade is expensive and time-consuming. Forfeiture can help agencies target these difficult problems, sometimes without the need to seek additional outside resources to offset their costs."

Source: Worrall, John L., "Asset Forfeiture," Center for Problem-Oriented Policing (Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, November 2008), p. 2.
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e1108-Asset-Forfeiture....

(asset forfeiture - police revenue) "We did not seek to determine whether forfeiture activities ultimately reduce crime or affect drug-related arrest patterns. However, we found some evidence that police agencies engage in forfeiture practices that maximize their potential for revenue generation. Specifically, we found that significantly fewer equitable-sharing payments are collected in generous forfeiture states, which is consistent with the policing-for-profit allegation put forth by forfeiture's critics (e.g., Blumenson and Nilsen, 1998)."

Source: Worrall, John L. and Kovandzic, Tomislav V., "Is Policing For Profit? Answers from Asset Forfeiture," Criminology and Public Policy (Columbus, OH: American Society of Criminology, 2008), Vol. 7, No. 2, p. 237.
Abstract: http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=245729

(asset forfeiture - SWAT raids) "Asset forfeiture has a long and troubling history in drug cases and has been frequently and thoroughly assailed by critics. But it has a unique application in the case of paramilitary raids. SWAT teams are typically expensive to maintain. Federal grants and free equipment get them up and running, but local departments are often then forced to foot the costs of keeping members up to date on tactics and weapons training as well as the upkeep of equipment. Because the more traditional uses of SWAT teams—emergency situations like barricades, hostage takings, and bank robberies—don’t bring lucrative forfeiture opportunities (or federal funding), police officials feel increasing pressure to send SWAT teams out on drug assignments, where the assets seized come back to the department and can help offset the costs of having a SWAT team in the first place."

Source: Balko, Rodney, "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America," Cato Institute (Washington, DC: 2006), p. 26.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

(asset forfeiture - corruption of law enforcement) "During the past decade, law enforcement agencies increasingly have turned to asset seizures and drug enforcement grants to compensate for budgetary shortfalls, at the expense of other criminal justice goals. We believe the strange shape of the criminal justice system today—the law enforcement agenda that targets assets rather than crime,20 the 80 percent of seizures that are unaccompanied by any criminal prosecution,21 the plea bargains that favor drug kingpins and penalize the “mules” without assets to trade,22 the reverse stings that target drug buyers rather than drug sellers,23 the overkill in agencies involved even in minor arrests,24 the massive shift towards federal jurisdiction over local law enforcement25—is largely the unplanned by-product of this economic incentive structure."

Source: Blumenson, E. & and Nilsen, E., "Policing for Profit: The Drug War's Hidden Economic Agenda," University of Chicago Law Review, 65: 35-114 (1998, Winter).
http://lsr.nellco.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=suffolk_f...

(asset forfeiture - the "reverse sting") "The advent of a now common police tactic, called the “reverse sting,” illustrates the shift in priorities from crime control to funding raids.107 In a reverse sting, an officer attempts to sell drugs to an unsuspecting buyer.108 The method permits the police to seize the buyer’s cash rather than a seller’s drugs, which have no value to the agency.109"

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, p. 788.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

(asset forfeiture - waivers and contracts) "In a growing and disturbing trend among state and local police, some law enforcement agencies now use contracts and waivers to obtain property, a practice that permits them to avoid forfeiture proceedings altogether. Generally, owners waive any interest in their property in exchange for the agency’s promise not to pursue criminal charges. This practice raises several concerns, the most serious of which is its complete disregard for the procedural guarantees current forfeiture legislation provides."

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, p. 795.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

Asset Forfeiture - Data

(2010 - asset forfeiture - value of assets forfeited) In the 22 years from 1989 to 2010, an estimated $12.6 billion in assets were seized by U.S. Attorneys in asset forfeiture cases. The growth rate during that time frame averaged an annual +19.4%. For just 2010 alone, the value of assets seized grew by +52.8% over 2009 and equaled 6 times greater than that for 1989.

Value of Asset Forfeiture Recoveries by U.S. Attorneys
Year   Asset Value   Annual %Chg
1989   $285,000,039   --
1990   451,870,952   +58.6%
1991   596,879,728   +32.1%
1992   325,786,450   -45.4%
1993   385,000,701   +18.2%
1994   418,224,247   +8.6%
1995   464,666,914   +11.1%
1996   377,527,900   -18.8%
1997   570,656,170   +51.2%
1998   280,808,572   -50.8%
1999   535,767,852   +90.8%
2000   312,676,413   -41.6%
2001(a)   199,043,103   -36.3%
2002   322,246,408   +61.9%
2003   342,862,000   +6.4%
2004 (b)   300,779,267   -12.3%
2005   313,866,115   +4.4%
2006   841,094,697   +168.0%
2007   1,323,094,697   +57.3%
2008   1,103,810,683   -16.6%
2009   1,129,381,466   +2.3%
2010   1,786,567,692   +58.2%
TOTAL   $12,667,612,066   +19.4%
Note: "The U.S. attorney is the highest ranking law enforcement official in each of the 94 Federal judicial districts. Each U.S. attorney, under the direction of the U.S. Attorney General, is responsible for establishing law enforcement priorities, and for carrying out the prosecution, litigation, and appellate responsibilities within their respective districts. Each U.S. attorney also is the chief litigator representing the United States in civil judicial proceedings in the district. U.S. attorneys direct and supervise the work of the assistant U.S. attorneys and staff of the district's offices.

"U.S. attorneys' offices utilize both criminal and civil asset forfeiture laws to strip away, through court proceedings, property that was either used for or derived from criminal activity such as narcotics violations, money laundering, racketeering, and fraud as well as property used to facilitate the commission of certain crimes (Source: Fiscal Year 2007, p. 40). These data represent the combined value of forfeited cash and property recovered through Federal civil and criminal court forfeiture proceedings.

"a) Beginning in fiscal year 2001, data reflect changes resulting from the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act (CAFRA) of 2000, which requires numerous procedural modifications governing criminal and civil asset forfeiture. See the Source: Fiscal Year 2002, for details.

"b) In fiscal year 2008, the Executive Office for United States Attorneys began to use the Justice Management Division, Consolidated Asset Tracking System to report on asset forfeiture cases and related dollar amounts. Data shown for FY 2004-2007 have been revised according to this system. Therefore these data are not directly comparable to data shown for earlier years."

 
Source: Maguire, Kathleen, ed., "Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics," U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics (Albany, NY: University of Albany, School of Criminal Justice, Hindelang Criminal Justice Research Center, 2009), Table 4.45.2010.
http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t4452010.pdf

(2008 - asset forfeiture - funds forfeited and held by government agencies)
"• In 2008, for the first time in history, the U.S. Department of Justice’s Assets Forfeiture Fund (AFF) held more than $1 billion in net assets—that is, money forfeited from property owners and now available for federal law enforcement activities after deducting various expenses. A similar fund at the U.S. Treasury Department held more than $400 million in net assets in 2008. By contrast, in 1986, the year after the AFF was created, it took in just $93.7 million in deposits.

"• State data reveal that state and local law enforcement also use forfeiture extensively: From 2001 to 2002, currency forfeitures alone in just nine states totaled more than $70 million. This measure excludes cars and other forfeited property, as well as forfeitures from many states that did not make data available for those years, and so likely represents just the tip of the forfeiture iceberg.

"• Equitable sharing payments to states have nearly doubled from 2000 to 2008, from a little more than $200 million to $400 million."

Source: Williams, Marian R.; Holcomb, Jefferson H.; Kovandzic, Tomislav V; and Bullock, Scott, "Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture," The Institute for Justice (Arlington, VA: March 2010), p. 7.
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeituretoemail.pd...

(2008 - asset forfeiture - funds holding forfeited assets) "Total assets, which present as of a specific time the amounts of future economic benefits owned or managed by the AFF/SADF [Assets Forfeiture Fund and Seized Asset Deposit Fund], increased in FY 2008 to $3,120.7 million from $3,056.5 million in FY 2007, an increase of 2.1 percent. If seized assets, which are not yet owned by the government, are backed out, the adjusted assets of the Fund increased to $1,892.2 million in FY 2008 from $1,790.6 million in FY 2007, an increase of 5.7 percent. This is attributable to an increase in forfeited assets in FY 2008 from FY 2007, indicating a strong current and future potential stream of assets flowing into the AFF. The AFF/SADF fund balances with the U.S. Treasury were lower in FY 2008 than FY 2007."

Source: Office of the Inspector General, Audit Division, US Dept. of Justice, "Assets Forfeiture Fund and Seized Asset Deposit Fund Annual Financial Statement Fiscal Year 2008" (Audit Report 09-19, March 2009), p. 6.
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/01programaudit/fy2008/fy2008_afs_report.p...

(2008 - asset forfeiture - what can be funded) "In Fiscal Year (FY) 2008, monies were available under a permanent indefinite appropriation to finance the following:

(1) The operational costs of the forfeiture program, including handling and disposal of seized and forfeited assets, and the execution of legal forfeiture proceedings to perfect the title of the United States in that property.
(2) The payment of innocent third party claims.
(3) The payment of equitable shares to participating foreign governments and state and local law enforcement agencies.
(4) The costs of ADP [Automatic Data Processing] equipment and ADP support for the Program.
(5) Contract services in support of the Program.
(6) Training and printing associated with the Program.
(7) Other management expenses of the Program.
( Awards for information leading to forfeiture.
(9) Joint Federal, state, and local law enforcement operations.
(10) Investigative expenses leading to seizure."

Source: Office of the Inspector General, Audit Division, US Dept. of Justice, "Assets Forfeiture Fund and Seized Asset Deposit Fund Annual Financial Statement Fiscal Year 2008" (Audit Report 09-19, March 2009), p. 5.
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/01programaudit/fy2008/fy2008_afs_report.p...

(2008, 1996, 1985 - asset forfeiture - value of assets seized) "... the value of assets seized annually by the federal government has risen substantially since CAFRA [Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act] was passed: in 1985, $27 million was deposited into the Department of Justice’s Asset Forfeiture Fund.67 A decade later in 1996, four years before CAFRA and during the period that motivated Rep. Hyde to press for changes, $338 million was deposited into the fund.68 And in 2008, the fund reported receipts of approximately $1.3 billion,69 a figure that does not include hundreds of millions of dollars more that federal agencies collected as their share from seizures by state agencies.70"

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, pp. 783-784.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

(2006 - asset forfeiture - funds holding forfeited assets) "Total assets, which presents as of a specific time, the amounts of future economic benefits owned or managed by the AFF/SADF [Assets Forfeiture Fund/Seized Asset Deposit Fund] increased in FY 2006 to $2,053.4 million, from $1,370.4 million in FY 2005, an increase of 49.8 percent. If seized assets, which are not yet owned by the government, are backed out, the adjusted assets of the Fund increased to $1,256.2 million in FY 2006 from $659.2 million in FY 2005, an increase of 90.6 percent. This is attributable to an increase in both forfeited assets and seized assets in FY 2006 from FY 2005, indicating a strong current and future potential stream of assets flowing into the AFF."

Source: Office of the Inspector General, Audit Division, US Dept. of Justice, "Assets Forfeiture Fund and Seized Asset Deposit Fund Annual Financial Statement Fiscal Year 2006" (Audit Report 07-15, January 2007), p. 6.
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/01programaudit/fy2006/fy06_afs_report.pdf

(2004 - asset forfeiture - number of cases) "The United States Attorneys Offices filed asset forfeiture counts in 3,785 criminal cases, which sought forfeiture as a criminal penalty during Fiscal Year 2004, representing an increase of 9 percent over the prior year. At the end of the fiscal year, there were 5,103 criminal asset forfeiture cases pending, an increase of 16 percent when compared to Fiscal Year 2003. Additionally, 2,235 civil forfeiture actions were filed by the United States Attorneys during the fiscal year, an increase of 4 percent when compared to the prior year. The United States Attorneys also obtained 1,433 civil asset forfeiture judgments in favor of the United States during the year, which represents a 14 percent increase over the prior year."

Source: U.S. Department of the Treasury. "2007 National Money Laundering Strategy" (Washington, DC: 2007), p. 101.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-finance/Docume...

(2004 - asset forfeiture - amount forfeited) "The United States Attorneys’ work on judicial asset forfeitures resulted in an estimated recovery of $390,450,467 in forfeited cash and property during Fiscal Year 2004. This represents an increase of 14 percent over Fiscal Year 2003. Approximately $2,626,415, or less than 1 percent, of the forfeited property was retained for official law enforcement use. Approximately $44,229,624 of asset forfeiture proceeds were applied to restitution in victim-related offenses"

Source: U.S. Department of the Treasury. "2007 National Money Laundering Strategy" (Washington, DC: 2007), p. 101.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-finance/Docume...

(2002 - asset forfeiture - median local forfeiture amount) "The overall median amount received from drug asset forfeiture programs by local police departments during 2002 was $7,000. By population category, the median amount received ranged from about $1.2 million among departments serving a population of 1 million or more to $2,000 among those serving fewer than 2,500 residents."

Source: Hickman, Matthew J.. and Reaves, Brian A., "Local Police Departments 2003" (Washington, DC: USDOJ, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May. 2006), NCJ 210118, p. 16.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd03.pdf

(2002 - asset forfeiture - amounts by sheriffs' offices and officers) "Fifty-two percent of all sheriffs' offices received money, property, or goods from a drug asset forfeiture program during 2002 (table 32). These sheriffs' offices employed 76% of all sworn personnel. More than 8 in 10 of the sheriffs' offices serving populations of 500,000 or more had drug asset forfeiture receipts.

"During 2002 the overall median amount received from drug asset forfeiture programs by sheriffs' offices was $10,000. By population category, the median amount received ranged from about $1 million among sheriffs' offices serving a population of 1 million or more to $5,000 among those serving fewer than 10,000 residents.

"Overall, sheriffs' offices received an estimated $178 million in money, goods, and property from drug asset forfeitures during 2002. Including both sheriffs' offices with receipts and those without, this was the equivalent of $992 per sworn officer employed. Sheriffs' offices with 1,000 or more officers received the most — nearly $1,700 per officer (figure 11). Next highest were agencies with 250 to 999 officers which received about $1,100 per officer and those with under 25 officers which received about $1,000 per officer. Sheriffs' offices with 25 to 49 officers received the least — $449 per officer."

Source: Hickman, Matthew J. and Reaves, Brian A., "Sheriffs' Offices 2003" (Washington, DC: USDOJ, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May. 2006), NCJ 211361. p. 16.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/so03.pdf

(2002 - asset forfeiture - amounts by local police departments and officers) "Local police departments received an estimated $298 million in money, goods, and property from drug asset forfeitures during 2002. Including both departments with receipts and those without, this was the equivalent of $642 per sworn officer employed. Departments with 100 to 249 officers received the most — $990 per officer (figure 11). Next highest were departments with 250 to 999 officers with $928 per officer. Departments with fewer than 50 officers received the least — about $400 per officer."

Source: Hickman, Matthew J. and Reaves, Brian A., "Local Police Departments 2003" (Washington, DC: USDOJ, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May. 2006), NCJ 210118, P. 16.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd03.pdf

(2002 - asset forfeiture - percentage of local police departments engaging in forfeiture) "Thirty-six percent of all local police departments received money, property, or goods from a drug asset forfeiture program during 2002 (table 32). These departments employed 78% of all local police officers. At least 80% of the departments in each population category of 25,000 or more had drug asset forfeiture receipts."

Source: Hickman, Matthew J.. and Reaves, Brian A., "Local Police Departments 2003" (Washington, DC: USDOJ, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May. 2006), NCJ 210118, p. 16.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd03.pdf

(1991 - profitability of forfeiture to government) "There can be few components of law enforcement programmes which actually cost nothing. The asset forfeiture provision of the federal law for crop suppression (relating mainly to cannabis in the State of Kentucky), proved to be such a case, costing the United States Government $13.7 million, but yielding a return of $53 million in 1991, or almost $4 in assets seized for every $1 invested by the Drug Enforcement Administration."

Source: United Nations International Drug Control Program, "Technical Series Report #6: Economic and Social Consequences of Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking" (New York, NY: UNDCP, 1998), p. 38.
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/technical_series_1998-01-01_1.pdf

Forfeiture - Law and Policy

(asset forfeiture - constitutional concerns) "Today’s civil asset forfeiture system also raises several constitutional issues. First, the potential for law enforcement to operate independently of the political process may violate the Constitution’s Appropriations Clause.154 Second, a federally created forfeiture tool called “equitable sharing” effectively permits state and local law enforcement to bypass states’ attempts to mandate how proceeds are disbursed, raising federalism concerns.155 Finally, the increasingly popular use of waivers—whereby the police offer property owners the choice of avoiding criminal charges in exchange for their property—means owners are deprived of the chance to challenge the forfeiture in a proceeding.156 Agencies that use waivers bypass civil asset forfeiture laws and deprive owners of the protections they provide, raising serious due process concerns."

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, pp. 792-793.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

(asset forfeiture - legislation) "Forfeiture was especially controversial during the 1980s and 1990s (Hyde, 1995; Levy, 1996), but in 2000, the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act (CAFRA) (Pub. L. No. 106-185) was passed. One major feature of the legislation was improved: due-process protections for property owners. And before CAFRA in 2000, the burden of proof fell on property owners. This process all changed with CAFRA. CAFRA did not, however, alter the burden of proof for civil forfeiture proceedings. It just shifted it from property owners to the government, and it did not change the law governing the disposition of forfeited assets (Worrall, 2004)."

Source: Worrall, John L. and Kovandzic, Tomislav V., "Is Policing For Profit? Answers from Asset Forfeiture," Criminology and Public Policy (Columbus, OH: American Society of Criminology, 2008), Vol. 7, No. 2, p. 224.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=245729

(asset forfeiture - history) "In 1970, Congress passed the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act.45 This Act included a provision authorizing the government to seize drugs, drug manufacturing and storage equipment, and items used to transport drugs.46 Later, Congress passed legislation broadening forfeiture laws to include proceeds from drug transactions47 and real property.48 Then in 1984, Congress passed the Comprehensive Crime Control Act, further expanding federal prosecutors’ ability to seize assets.49

"After more than twenty years of unbridled police power in the area of asset forfeitures, critics, led by Representative Henry Hyde, the former chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, began calling for reforms."

"While not all of Rep. Hyde’s proposals were adopted in the final version of CAFRA [Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act], enacted in 2000, the Act revised many aspects of federal administrative and civil judicial forfeiture proceedings.58 One of the most important of these changes related to the parties’ required burden of proof ... While Rep. Hyde fought unsuccessfully for the government to carry a burden of clear and convincing evidence,60 he settled for a standard of preponderance of the evidence.61"

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, pp. 782-783.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

(asset forfeiture - statutes in drug cases) "The statutes pertaining to drug offenses authorize the forfeiture of more than just the proceeds of the offense. Under 21 U.S.C. §§ 853(a) and 881(a) (criminal and civil forfeiture, respectively), a court may order the forfeiture of both the drug proceeds and any real or personal property used to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, the drug offense. These are the statutes that a federal law enforcement agency or federal prosecutor would use to take a car, boat, gun, airplane, or farm, away from a drug dealer.

"Facilitating property is defined in the case law to mean any property that "makes the prohibited conduct less difficult or more or less free from obstruction or hindrance." United States v. Schifferli, 895 F.2d 987, 990 (4th Cir. 1990) (Facilitation occurs when the property "make the prohibited conduct less difficult or more or less free from obstruction or hindrance."); United States v. Bornfield, 145 F.3d 1123, 1135 (10th Cir. 1998) (citing Schifferli); United States v. Puche, 350 F.3d 1137, 1153 (11th Cir. 2003) (citing Bornfield)). The drug cases provide a plethora of examples of cases where houses, businesses, and even medical licences, have been forfeited as facilitating property."

Source: Cassella, Stefan D., "Overview of Asset Forfeiture Law in the United States," United States Attorneys' Bulletin, (Columbia, SC: November 2007), p. 11.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usab5506.pdf

(asset forfeiture - standard of proof) "In 2000, Congress passed the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act, which now requires law enforcement agencies to demonstrate by “a preponderance of the evidence,” rather than merely a showing of “probable cause,” that the property to be seized is linked to criminal activity. Moreover, the government now has the burden of proving that property was involved in a crime, rather than the previous standard under which the owner was required to prove that the property was not the product of criminal involvement.

Source: Mauer, Marc and King, Ryan S., "A 25-Year Quagmire: The War on Drugs and Its Impact on American Society" The Sentencing Project (Washington, DC: September 2007), p. 6.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/dp_25yearquagmire.pdf

(asset forfeiture - 'equitable sharing') "In 1984, Congress passed the Comprehensive Forfeiture Act, which vastly expanded the federal government’s forfeiture powers.169 The Act also created “equitable sharing,” a process by which federal agencies “adopt” forfeiture cases from state law enforcement agencies.170 Equitable sharing is used when federal forfeiture is more favorable to state and local police, which usually occurs when state law mandates that law enforcement keep a smaller amount than that available under equitable sharing.171 Perhaps of more concern is when it is used to skirt state laws that either prevent forfeiture in a particular case, or direct that all or a portion of the proceeds be deposited into non-law enforcement funds.172 The federal agency keeps 20% of the recovered amount, while the remainder is returned to the state or local entity that brought the action.173"

Source: Moores, Eric, "Reforming the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act," Arizona Law Review (Tuscon, AZ: The University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law, 2009) Volume 51, Issue 3, p. 794.
http://www.arizonalawreview.org/pdf/51-3/51arizlrev777.pdf

(asset forfeiture - standard of proof) "In a civil forfeiture action, the government need only prove by a preponderance of evidence that the property is subject to forfeiture. Criminal forfeiture, which is apparently much less common than civil forfeiture (Hyde, 1995), usually accompanies criminal charges and is more difficult because of the proof-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard (Warchol, Payne, and Johnson, 1996:53-54). Civil forfeiture may thus be pursued more frequently because of the lower standard of proof. In fairness, however, criminal forfeiture may be preferred sometimes because restrictions exist on divulging the amount of assets forfeited (Clingermayer, Hecker, and Madsen, 2005)."

Source: Worrall, John L. and Kovandzic, Tomislav V., "Is Policing For Profit? Answers from Asset Forfeiture," Criminology and Public Policy (Columbus, OH: American Society of Criminology, 2008), Vol. 7, No. 2, p. 223.
Abstract: http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=245729

Asset Forfeiture - Research

(asset forfeiture - research - police profiteering) "Results from the present study demonstrate that all three factors of state forfeiture law that we studied - proceeds to law enforcement, innocent owner burden, and standard of proof - impact the extent to which state and local law enforcement agencies choose to pursue federal equitable sharing. Moreover, when state laws make forfeiture more difficult and less rewarding, agencies are even more apt to turn to the federal government's easier and more generous forfeiture procedures."

Source: Holcomb, Jefferson E.; Kovandzic, Tomislav V.; and Williams, Marian R., "Civil asset forfeiture, equitable sharing, and policing for profit in the United States," Journal of Criminal Justice (Amsterdam, The Netherlands: Elsevier, March 23, 2011) Volume 39, Issue 2, p. 282.
http://walker-foundation.org/Files/walker/2011/AFjournalofcriminaljustic...

(asset forfeiture - police profiteering) "In general, however, the powerful incentives for profit-seeking found within forfeiture current laws is criticized as encouraging inappropriate enforcement activities and detracting from the proper role of law enforcement within a democratic state. The dependency of the police on public resources for their operations is an important check on police power. Self-generating revenues by the police through forfeiture potentially threatens the ability of popularly elected officials to constrain police activities. Perhaps such concerns partially explain the differences in state laws. If the legislators and the public wished for forfeiture to be very easy and rewarding to law enforcement, every state would have low standards of proof, limited innocent owner protections, and all proceeds would go exclusively to the police."

Source: Holcomb, Jefferson E.; Kovandzic, Tomislav V.; and Williams, Marian R., "Civil asset forfeiture, equitable sharing, and policing for profit in the United States," Journal of Criminal Justice (Amsterdam, The Netherlands: Elsevier, March 23, 2011) Volume 39, Issue 2, p. 283.
http://walker-foundation.org/Files/walker/2011/AFjournalofcriminaljustic...

(asset forfeiture - research - police profiteering) "In sum, the present study found that law enforcement agencies in jurisdictions with more restrictive or less rewarding state forfeiture laws receive greater forfeiture proceeds through federal equitable sharing. These results provide compelling evidence that law enforcement agencies consider the legal burdens and financial rewards of their own state law compared to those under federal equitable sharing in determining how to process asset seizures. Whether such actions are viewed as appropriate, innovative, and utility-maximizing police behavior or something more problematic is a matter for the public and policy-makers to assess. Any discussion about these results, however, certainly raises political and normative questions about the independence of law enforcement from public oversight and the budgetary process as well as the appropriate role and limits of asset forfeiture by law enforcement."

Source: Holcomb, Jefferson E.; Kovandzic, Tomislav V.; and Williams, Marian R., "Civil asset forfeiture, equitable sharing, and policing for profit in the United States," Journal of Criminal Justice (Amsterdam, The Netherlands: Elsevier, March 23, 2011) Volume 39, Issue 2, p. 283.
http://walker-foundation.org/Files/walker/2011/AFjournalofcriminaljustic...


You now are a Federal Criminal by the US standards

The United States Code contains dozens of criminal conspiracy statutes. One, 18 U.S.C. 371,
outlaws conspiracy to commit any other federal crime. The others outlaw conspiracy to commit
some specific form of misconduct, ranging from civil rights violations to drug trafficking.
7
Conspiracy is a separate offense under most of these statutes,
8
 regardless of whether conspiracy
accomplishes its objective.
9
 The various conspiracy statutes, however, differ in several other
respects. A few, including Section 371, require at least one conspirator to take some affirmative
step in furtherance of the scheme. Most have no such overt act requirement.

All this pretty much says if your going to do it, don't talk about it lol. I support the use of Medical Mary Jane and donate to NORML every year. But in order for the movement to move forward we must move forward and comply the best we can with laws. The fact that you are breaking the law on this forum, is not a good thing. Just saying, But I wish you luck and hope you can make a go at it, just thought I would inform you so you could have a better stance.


Oh yea don't forget about the state red tape for a bank, http://www.dora.state.co.us/banking/feeschedule.html 12k just to apply lol

Seems a much less capital intensive business that takes advantage of dispensaries mainstream money woes would be to be the bit-pay of colorado pot.

I could maybe bankroll or provide liquidity for something like that.

So there is an industry that some say could be worth BILLIONS of dollars (US) that is legal in my home town.  That's kind of surprising given how conservative most people in my town are.  You see I live in Colorado just down the street from Pikes Peak and, well, get this...

There are 100,000 people who are allowed to possess, consume and grow medical marijuana in Colorado.  Each and every one of these people has gone to a medical doctor and had that doctor recommend them to use medical marijuana.  These patients then spent $35 to register with the state as a 'red card' holder.  These citizens spend, I'm speculating here, about $40 per week adding up to a whopping $4,000,000 each WEEK!

So how do you get some of that green?

These sellers of the fine medicine have a BIG problem with banks.  Banks, it seems, are "too good" for them.  Banks who are all regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp (FDIC) have been told that allowing dispensaries to have accounts could be a problem.  As a result ALL BANKS in Colorado and California have refused accounts to dispensaries(1).

See the problem?  These people with the $4,000,000US a week in revenue, they have nowhere to put their money.

You say "well go get a merchant account and process with credit cards",  I say Visa and MasterCard WILL NOT TAKE YOUR MONEY(2).

You must see where I am going now, right?

I want to start a bank for medical marijuana centers that allows patients to easily purchase medical marijuana.  I propose to build a network of cash register card readers tied to a "centralized bank" of bitcoins.  Patients purchase the coins and spend the coins by swiping a plastic ID card at the cash register.  No money actually changes hands lessening the likelihood of a robbery near the store.  Then the individual account holders (patients and dispensaries) can exchange their coins for cash or cash for coins as they see fit.  Problem solved: where to put $4,000,000 per week.  That's $208 million in Colorado alone, California is a MASSIVE market.

Here's the gambling part...  I need start up money.  I need 25 BTC to form an LLC and get this ball rolling.  I need another 50 BTC to send out an initial mailer to all 500 Colorado dispensaries.

Would you Gamble a bitcoin or 0.5 BTC over here?  I'll put your "name" in lights when the website is up for all to see (if you tell me your name).  

I promise that ALL funds donated to this cause will go to starting and building this bank and no other purpose.  I am doing this in part to demonstrate my integrity toward my bigger goal of building a massive indoor production facility in preparation for the overturning of prohibition in Colorado(https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--106393).  In that post I am essentially requesting a loan of 32,000 BTC.  

I need to demonstrate my integrity and I am doing so here by asking you to gamble on me.  Cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye I promise not to let you down... I will fully account for the 75 BTC I am requesting should anyone be so inclined as to gamble it.  

Here's the gamble... anything up to and including 75BTC sent to me will be TRIPLED on the payback if this launches and becomes successful.  So, for example, if you sent me 1 BTC I will send you 3 BTC upon successful launch.  

I have set up a new address:    1A9n3ioPWXxbuwcAduUoRGGFZVRvWKoPZC

Thank you for your consideration.

1. http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_19016660)
2. http://www.vibe.com/article/visa-and-mastercard-reject-medical-marijuana-purchases
3. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--106393