Looking for a new self custody wallet

NotATether

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Quote from: Ben Barubal on December 22, 2022, 09:56:58 AM

What about Sir if these are non-custodial wallets for altcoins, is this also possible?

Non-custodial means that there is no 3rd party holding your coins for you. But it is getting increasingly harder to find, primarily because a lack of developers to maintain them. So you will usually see closed-source wallets supporting many of these altcoins, but using a centralized exchange service to swap between them.

Which is not exactly my definition of non-custodial.

Lida93

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

I have just built a laptop, installed a known secure linux distro and am ready to move everything I own to it.

I want to help the network. Especially the LN network. Please if you have a good link provide it on how I can with my own hardware... I am not asking for step by step instructions just resources to knowledge. .

Out of curiosity, is this laptop built as a patent one (owned company) or it's a compilation of different components? That's by the Way, here's a link that should provide you with multi choice on resource to knowledge to about 80 different types of hardware wallets.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5282364

Ben Barubal

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Ben Barubal on December 20, 2022, 12:44:47 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

--snip--

But look here what I found Sir,

It's written on this article it was one of the type in a non-custodial wallet.

source: https://linen.app/articles/what-is-a-self-custody-non-custodial-wallet/

I did further research and indeed some people use such sub-categorization to refer certain wallet (such as Metamask or Coinbase wallet). However,
1. Such sub-categorization is only used to refer wallet which support altcoin with smart contract capability.
2. OP only ask about Bitcoin wallet and he don't care about altcoin. Bitcoin don't have smart contract capability, so there's no point of mentioning "Smart contract wallet" in this case.
3. "Smart contract wallet" usually is also non-custodial/self-custodial wallet.

Oh I see sorry for that, I didn't notice it was only OP looking for Bitcoin non custodial wallet not for altcoin.

What about Sir if these are non-custodial wallets for altcoins, is this also possible?

Ben Barubal

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: AverageGlabella on December 18, 2022, 05:15:10 PM

--snip--

Should we be pushing instead for these trade secrets to be made freely available? By doing this you would promote more companies to compete and some smaller time hobbyists that want to build their own basic hardware because of the problems we have mentioned in this topic.

I expect it'll be extremely difficult when microprocessor is tied into geopolitics conflict. This year alone US have few new sanction about microprocessor to China and Russia

Quote from: gunhell16 on December 19, 2022, 12:10:35 AM

There are several types of self-custody wallets dude, such as desktop, smart contract, mobile and hardware wallet.

Smart contract isn't type of cryptocurrency wallet.

But look here what I found Sir,

It's written on this article it was one of the type in a non-custodial wallet.

source: https://linen.app/articles/what-is-a-self-custody-non-custodial-wallet/

gunhell16

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There are several types of self-custody wallets dude, such as desktop, smart contract, mobile and hardware wallet.
Which of these you are comfortable to use anyway? For me in my opinion, it is still better to use Desktop and Hardware wallet
both are proven and tested already to me actually for a couple of years now, I know some of here will agree with me and some are
not I guess.

Hardware wallet also became popular because of its security where the private key of their users never been
exposed in the internet as well.

AverageGlabella

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Quote from: NotATether on November 24, 2022, 12:58:02 PM

Second, most people do not have experience with microprocessor design. Sure, one can argue that it is of similar complexity as learning C++, ie. doable, but that's not the point - without freely available documentation (which is being held up by patents and trade secrets), it is impossible to design a practical microprocessor which can perform similarly to an Intel or an AMD processor.

It's not good for the microprocessor industry to have 2 or 3 companies holding an oligarchy over it.

Another example of why capitalism sucks!

Should we be pushing instead for these trade secrets to be made freely available? By doing this you would promote more companies to compete and some smaller time hobbyists that want to build their own basic hardware because of the problems we have mentioned in this topic.

NotATether

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on November 20, 2022, 09:53:10 AM

We NEED true open source hardware. That is what we need because everything you talk about here about building your own hardware just is not possible unless you have a big amount of money behind you and some engineering skills. Then you prolly would need some programming skills to set up the software on the computer including your own custom coded bios system. You could use Linux as a operating system because that is open source.

There's two factors at play here preventing this from happening:

First of all, ordering chips from TSMC is expensive, which limits the DIY market - software is free to make, hardware is not.

Second, most people do not have experience with microprocessor design. Sure, one can argue that it is of similar complexity as learning C++, ie. doable, but that's not the point - without freely available documentation (which is being held up by patents and trade secrets), it is impossible to design a practical microprocessor which can perform similarly to an Intel or an AMD processor.

It's not good for the microprocessor industry to have 2 or 3 companies holding an oligarchy over it.

Jon_Hodl

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My own personal method is ColdCard and SeedSigner for fully air-gapped hardware wallets with my entropy generated with SeedSticks and/or 99 dice rolls to generate the seed offline.

I then export the xPub key to Sparrow Wallet which is connected to my own node running an electrum server.

When I generate a transactions, I create the transaction on my desktop and partially sign it, I send the PSBT to either hardware device and then sign it and then send the fully signed transaction back to Sparrow to be broadcast.

It takes a while to fully get this setup but everything only costs about $500 plus the cost of my computer. I think Sparrow might be able to be run from a RasPi with the latest update but I have to confirm that.

It's a pretty solid setup. All of my keys are offline and have never been exposed to a device that has ever been connected to a computer or internet. If I need quicker access to funds, I would send some to a new wallet that I would consider having on my desktop but only if I feel the need to have something ready to go quickly. Since it would be on Sparrow, I could CoinJoin right from there.

Hope this helps and good luck on your self-custody journey. That sucks you got burned on FTX.

DaveF

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: LoyceV on November 20, 2022, 01:31:30 PM

Quote from: joniboini on November 20, 2022, 12:32:03 PM

Air gapping a device is probably your best bet.

How long will it take before for instance USB-C cables come with built-in 4G wireless capabilities? Air gapping will no longer be enough, you'll need a faraday cage too.

It's already exist on online marketplace. Usually it also has feature GPS tracking, audio listening bug or even raw data interception.

Yep, post has not been updated in a while since it's still being worked on and there really is not much to report beyond that but:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/be-careful-what-you-plug-your-hardware-wallet-into-your-pc-with-5391131
Should probably poke him for a real update after Thanksgiving.

In that same thought process, just in general, more and more I see places / people using cheap wireless keyboards on machines that they are typing in sensitive information in a public environment.

-Dave

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

I want to help the network. Especially the LN network. Please if you have a good link provide it on how I can with my own hardware... I am not asking for step by step instructions just resources to knowledge.

I've been using Raspibolt, and it's satisfied my needs. For knowledge resources: https://www.lopp.net/lightning-information.html

Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

I want to support LN, Watchtowers, Taproot, Nodes.... everything I can with my hardware I have available. I am just lost in the noise of all the bullshit and scammers.

Good. Run a full node. Run a lightning node. Study lightning basics and help on reducing routing failures. Avoid centralized exchanges, and exchange decentrally using software like Bisq. Do self-custody using airgapped devices for maximum security. Screw those who're watching you by mixing. Educate yourself and your friends.

LoyceV

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on November 20, 2022, 11:51:31 AM

I like the idea of hardware that is verifiable safe

How? If you buy a resistor, you can verify that it does what it should do. If you buy a USB-C cable, it's already pretty difficult to see if there's no "keyboard malware" in there. If you buy a CPU, it's impossible to test all features.

Quote from: joniboini on November 20, 2022, 12:32:03 PM

Air gapping a device is probably your best bet.

How long will it take before for instance USB-C cables come with built-in 4G wireless capabilities? Air gapping will no longer be enough, you'll need a faraday cage too.

Quote

Using two different devices, one for storing your coins and one for publishing your tx is probably the closest one you can do.

I'd add to use different software to verify the signed transaction before broadcasting it, just to see if the first software did what it's supposed to do.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

TLDR; I want to fully be self custody and at the same time contribute to layer 2 of BTC. If you have a link on helping me achieve this with my own hardware please respond.

I would start with this:

Quote from: odolvlobo on November 19, 2022, 11:54:33 PM

Get a Raspberry Pi and set up Raspibolt or Raspiblitz.

and I would add a hardware wallet on top of this, but since you have a strong opinion like

Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

Fuck Ledger, I want to rely on my own hardware... My own hardware I built with my own hands.

I will recommend either a/another computer (or USB stick with a Linux) that you would leave forever offline and use as cold storage, either a SeedSigner-like device.

joniboini

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on November 20, 2022, 11:51:31 AM

-snip-

Air gapping a device is probably your best bet. Going the extra mile to make sure every microcode etc is verifiable is gonna be difficult. Using two different devices, one for storing your coins and one for publishing your tx is probably the closest one you can do.

AverageGlabella

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 20, 2022, 11:27:55 AM

Quote from: AverageGlabella on November 20, 2022, 09:53:10 AM

We NEED true open source hardware.

I don't think open source hardware is going to change anything: even if you have the schematics, you still can't know if they didn't add something that's undocumented (AKA a back door).

Quote

That is what we need because everything you talk about here about building your own hardware just is not possible unless you have a big amount of money behind you and some engineering skills.

Let's face it: it's not possible to build your own CPU from scratch, no matter how much money you throw at it. And if you hire people to do it, it's you're back to the part where you have to trust someone.

Good points even if you want to build the hardware yourself the people you hire could always put a backdoor in it as you say. I like the idea of hardware that is verifiable safe and I hope there is developments in it but at some point it does seem like you will need to trust someone along the chain of creation. It probably is dream land to think we will ever get open source hardware.

The hardware will always be holding us back because as from my color code list all the software has already been achieved and fully converted to open source and is a good standard. The only thing that has not is the microcode that is used to interact on a hardware level which might be the next step for extra transparency but then we still have the problem of the hardware itself.

LoyceV

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on November 20, 2022, 09:53:10 AM

We NEED true open source hardware.

I don't think open source hardware is going to change anything: even if you have the schematics, you still can't know if they didn't add something that's undocumented (AKA a back door).

Quote

That is what we need because everything you talk about here about building your own hardware just is not possible unless you have a big amount of money behind you and some engineering skills.

Let's face it: it's not possible to build your own CPU from scratch, no matter how much money you throw at it. And if you hire people to do it, it's you're back to the part where you have to trust someone.

AverageGlabella

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When you say you have built a laptop do you mean you have manufactured all the parts yourself and have not just put a computer together with existing parts? (intel & AMD)

We NEED true open source hardware. That is what we need because everything you talk about here about building your own hardware just is not possible unless you have a big amount of money behind you and some engineering skills. Then you prolly would need some programming skills to set up the software on the computer including your own custom coded bios system. You could use Linux as a operating system because that is open source.

The perfect setup is (green = exists, red = does not exist):

1. Open source hardware (does not exist)
2. Open source router
3. open source bios (heads I think is open source)
4. open source operating system
5. open source wallet software

Everyone on this topic prolly relies on Intel or AMD for their graphics processing. A few will use raspberry pi. None of these are open source hardware and there will always be a risk of back doors in these. If you build your own computer you are still relying on these companies for the hardware you are just putting the parts together totally different to manufacturing it.

DaveF

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For the hardware wallet side:

Assuming you are good with component level soldering you can build your own coldcard:
https://github.com/Coldcard/firmware/tree/master/hardware

If you want something easier, you can use a RPi and the trezor firmware more or less:
https://www.pitrezor.com/2018/02/pitrezor-homemade-trezor-bitcoin-wallet.html

For the OS / side all you need to do is follow any one of the guides that is out there to install everything.
You can as others have said use one of the prebuilt images, but if you want to be sure you can do it yourself.

Which ones you use is more of your personal preference. C-Lightning vs LND or one of a few electrum server options and so on.
Everyone has a preference but it's better to find what you want / need / like rather then listen to others. A lot can get lost in the signal to noise ratio of people talking about C-Lightning vs LND instead of us saying try both, play with both, and use the one that works for you.

-Dave

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

I have just built a laptop, installed a known secure linux distro and am ready to move everything I own to it.

Is this laptop permanently airgapped? I.e. it has never been online, nor will it ever go online. Even better if you didn't even put a WiFi or ethernet card in it so it physically can't go online. If not, permanently airgap it then format it and reinstall your distro of choice.

After that, the set up I would use would be to run Core on your main online computer and run an Electrum server on this computer as well. Then run Electrum on your airgapped laptop, set up a new wallet, and create a matching watch only wallet on your online computer (which syncs only via your own server). You use the online watch only Electrum wallet (which does not contain any private keys) to monitor your addresses and create unsigned transactions, and your airgapped Electrum wallet to sign those transactions (after transferring them back and forth using either a USB drive or a QR code).

You could also skip Electrum here and do the same process just using Core, but lots of people find Electrum easier to use. You can also use your Ledger device with this set up, and interact with your Ledger via Electrum on your online computer, again routing everything through your own Electrum server connected to your own node.

ABCbits

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

FTX absolutely ruined me and I have a slice of what "used to be" left on my Ledger.

Fuck Ledger, I want to rely on my own hardware... My own hardware I built with my own hands.

Ledger have some flaw and some poor privacy practice. But if you already have one, i don't see any reason to stop using your Ledger.

Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

I have plans to get back to hosting a node with my dusty pie but my question is what is the current well respected self custody wallet these days? Electrum? Samourai? I guess the real answer is just stick with the actual core wallet.

Electrum and Bitcoin Core are still most popular option for desktop user. Samourai is niche option even among Bitcoin enthusiast, although Sparrow Wallet getting more popular in past few days.

Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

PS...where is the goddamn IRC info. I have been so out of touch on this shit.

Most people don't use IRC these days and few years ago many people (who still use IRC) move from freenode to libera server.

Quote from: odolvlobo on November 19, 2022, 11:54:33 PM

Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

TLDR; I want to fully be self custody and at the same time contribute to layer 2 of BTC. If you have a link on helping me achieve this with my own hardware please respond.

Get a Raspberry Pi and set up Raspibolt or Raspiblitz.

But if OP prefer to use his laptop, myNode or Umbrel might be better choice.

LoyceV

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Quote from: chsados on November 19, 2022, 11:36:23 PM

Fuck BNB, fuck LTC, fuck ETH, fuck ERC20 DeFi. I strayed from the Maxi I once was chasing the yield. Shame on me.

At least you realized it, better late than never I guess.

Quote

FTX absolutely ruined me and I have a slice of what "used to be" left on my Ledger.

Fuck Ledger, I want to rely on my own hardware... My own hardware I built with my own hands.

I'm not sure if that's the right move. The Ledger didn't fail you, right? I don't think you can build your own hardware, other than sticking components together. I'm not sure how that improves anything.

Quote

I have just built a laptop, installed a known secure linux distro and am ready to move everything I own to it.

How did you build a laptop?

Quote

I want to help the network. Especially the LN network. Please if you have a good link provide it on how I can with my own hardware... I am not asking for step by step instructions just resources to knowledge.

Start by reading The Lightning Network FAQ.

Quote

what is the current well respected self custody wallet these days? Electrum? Samourai? I guess the real answer is just stick with the actual core wallet.

Bitcoin Core is the most basic indeed. Electrum would be my second choice. However, for convenience of offline signing, I'd pick Electrum over Bitcoin Core if you have a dedicated offline airgapped device where you keep your coins in a cold wallet.

Quote

TLDR; I want to fully be self custody and at the same time contribute to layer 2 of BTC. If you have a link on helping me achieve this with my own hardware please respond.

Keep those 2 goals separate! Your self custody cold wallet should never touch the internet, your Lightning adventures go on a different online machine.

Topic: Looking for a new self custody wallet (Read 449 times)