Loophole in stopping Money Laundering through Wagering - page 3.

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Quote from: avp2306 on July 29, 2023, 02:43:01 AM

Quote from: Bitinity on July 29, 2023, 01:40:53 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on July 28, 2023, 11:33:36 PM

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

It will rise a flag if the person repeat the same thing again and again because the system in the casino may detect it as an unusual thing. Clever criminal will not do it repeatedly in the same place, they will do it in various different casinos. As I said previously before in this thread, a clever criminal who want to launder their money will not use casinos as the place to launder the money unless they are also willing to take the risk of losing all the deposited money.

And I do believe that no criminal do their thing on same place because they can get easily busted if they do that. Those criminals are so smart to know what will be their next best action to do that's the reason why we see them escape so easily. Also I guess they are not using a casino now since KYC is already implemented and mostly they use mixers to cover up their foot tracks then escape from those authorities who want to track them.

- Professional criminals often do that. And there is no such thing as a criminal in these times. Also, the only people who often commit money laundering are those who do or are used to doing illegal things.

And probably others are still going through this in the crypto space just so that the authorities don't care about the transfer of from money to a good way through bitcoin mixing.

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Quote from: Shinpako09 on July 29, 2023, 09:07:58 AM

A launderer is often carrying a big amount. Now who's gonna risk such a big amount to launder? considering it's not his own money, an organization to be exact, and will the organization allow to use such a very risky tactic? Not to mention there is kyc and the probability of the site asking for more information if they found you suspicious. An organization will choose to do it under the table or do the usual thing they are doing.

And that's what I've been saying, criminals don't risk stealing a little money, especially scammers in the crypto world, just see that they steal hundreds of bitcoins, so when you look at the price of bitcoin, anyone realizes that they steal a lot of money , and as you said and I have said this too, no scammers would put 10 bitcoins in a casino to launder, the scammers are not dumb enough to make these mistakes, they know that there are mixers that they can use and it will be more practical and safe for their case

in mixer scammers can quickly hide their tracks even if they have stolen a lot of coins and in mixer they do not run the risk of being asked for kyc, while in casinos there is a requirement of 2X or more of the deposit amount to be able to withdraw, who the hell would be stupid to steal 10 btc and put it in the casino and have to risk playing all 10 btc to be able to withdraw? obviously scammers wouldn't do that and I've been saying that. I don't see any sense for governments to be forcing kyc in casinos when casinos can implement requirements to play 2x the deposit amount for withdrawal

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

As we know that most gambling sites will require you to gamble and wager your whole balance once, before you can cash out or withdraw from the gambling site and they take this measure so people do not do money laundering whereby deposit and withdraw without gambling.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

Would launderers really do that? Risking money for 1.01 odds, although there's a high chance of winning, that is not the right way to do it due to the high risk involved. Detecting money launderers is hard in crypto, so I don't see the sense of betting on 1.01 odds just to mix or launder the funds. Besides, it's crypto; what they will withdraw is crypto as well. It would only be determined once it's cashed out to fiat, at which point the gambling sites are no longer involved, and the exchanges come into play.

There's a reason why some gambling sites still promote anonymous gambling while no exchanges do the same—exchanges are more regulated compared to gambling sites.

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Quote from: Gozie51 on July 29, 2023, 09:39:26 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on July 29, 2023, 03:06:33 AM

BTW real money launderers use real cash and chips at real casinos. Crypto is much harder.

Another btw forgive me for saying but I think OP is just one of many people who doesn't really gamble, hence the notion of this loophole can work.

I'm thinking, is there a way that casino deposit conditions and processes can be bypassed for any launderer? Or will that be possible with casino owner and launderer. Because like you mentioned, it will be difficult to launder money through casino especially with KYC. Till date, government officials who launder money still do it with cash because of the personal relationship existing with the bankers who can easily bypass protocol for them .

Yes, in real casinos. Gangs they distribute cash to runners. Whose job is to gamble all day, even lose some. Then cash out the chips. Clean money.

Crypto casino much more difficult as betting patterns like OP suggested is immediately given the red flag. Its not even about KYC here but just systems that automatically check for cleaning patterns.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on July 30, 2023, 01:00:06 AM

Quote from: tusandii on July 29, 2023, 09:58:07 PM

It's a shame that the government, which should be responsible for the progress of society and the state, is even involved in running illegal businesses just to get some money for personal gain.
Cryptocurrency is developing very rapidly nowadays and with cryptocurrency everyone can use it as an investment or trading tool so they can have an additional source of income but some irresponsible people even misuse crypto which makes many people think badly of the cryptocurrency industry.
If crypto trading platforms and gambling sites always suppress money laundering crimes then I believe cases of corruption and so on can be reduced because they have no place to do money laundering so that they are not traced if it is money generated from corruption or from illegal business.

That's because everyone wants more money and has to use illegal methods even though they already get a large monthly salary. Entrepreneurs also take part with the government. Even employees also join.

People who use crypto to misuse crypto make crypto bad in society because people think that how can they use crypto as an investment or trade that can be a source of additional income if crypto is only used by people who run illegal businesses. But they are wrong because it depends on each person and crypto is neutral. Crypto trading platforms and gambling sites can help find people who are carrying out money laundering. This corruption case must be prevented first and it must investigate each person suspected by the government.

Corruption is one thing which may happen at the government level (if the government is corrupt) or at an individual level if some individual wants to use some illegal means like money laundering etc but in both cases the gambling sites need to play their part to stop any illegal use of the platform.

I understand that if the government is involved, it will be difficult for the gambling casino to react but they should try to stop any illegal act they witness, as they are the ones who know exactly how much is being deposited and withdrawn from the casino and the purpose also become clear if anyone is depositing and withdrawing right after the minimum wagering requirements.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 29, 2023, 02:28:43 AM

As we know that most gambling sites will require you to gamble and wager your whole balance once, before you can cash out or withdraw from the gambling site and they take this measure so people do not do money laundering whereby deposit and withdraw without gambling.

Now the point here is that on the gambling site, there are many easy winning bets with odds like 1.01x etc. If the money lauder is sensible he can easily be wagering the whole amount by placing a few bets where the odds are very low and the winning chances are 99%.

So does this mean that there is a loophole here and the money launderers can easily by pass this wagering requirement?

I don't think that the money launderers will have any luck by doing such actions because in online gimbling anything can happen and if a gambler is wagering everything he/she owns then the chances of getting a loss bet is 100%, and I'm quite sure that anyone who gambles regularly know that there is no sure winning thing in the gambling world. Even if a gambler has 99% of winning but still that 1% is more than enough to make a gambler lose a bet, and if someone is putting the whole capital as a bet then that gambler can face such 1% losses.

It again depends on the luck of a gambler because if a gambler is a lucky person than his/her chances to win and pass wagering requirement without any worries, but if a gambler is unlucky then then of course he/she can lose even with just 1% probability of losing. I would always advice everyone to be careful while gambling because putting 100% of your capital is very risky and with a single loss bet you lose everything.

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Quote from: tusandii on July 29, 2023, 09:58:07 PM

It's a shame that the government, which should be responsible for the progress of society and the state, is even involved in running illegal businesses just to get some money for personal gain.
Cryptocurrency is developing very rapidly nowadays and with cryptocurrency everyone can use it as an investment or trading tool so they can have an additional source of income but some irresponsible people even misuse crypto which makes many people think badly of the cryptocurrency industry.
If crypto trading platforms and gambling sites always suppress money laundering crimes then I believe cases of corruption and so on can be reduced because they have no place to do money laundering so that they are not traced if it is money generated from corruption or from illegal business.

That's because everyone wants more money and has to use illegal methods even though they already get a large monthly salary. Entrepreneurs also take part with the government. Even employees also join.

People who use crypto to misuse crypto make crypto bad in society because people think that how can they use crypto as an investment or trade that can be a source of additional income if crypto is only used by people who run illegal businesses. But they are wrong because it depends on each person and crypto is neutral. Crypto trading platforms and gambling sites can help find people who are carrying out money laundering. This corruption case must be prevented first and it must investigate each person suspected by the government.

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Quote from: Bitinity on July 29, 2023, 01:40:53 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on July 28, 2023, 11:33:36 PM

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

It will rise a flag if the person repeat the same thing again and again because the system in the casino may detect it as an unusual thing. Clever criminal will not do it repeatedly in the same place, they will do it in various different casinos. As I said previously before in this thread, a clever criminal who want to launder their money will not use casinos as the place to launder the money unless they are also willing to take the risk of losing all the deposited money.

You are right with your last statement, in-fact, that even has made me to start wondering where this whole idea of money launders using online gambling casinos to launder money came from, that is, i am wondering where the assumption or believe came from, cus for me, if lets assume i was into crime and wants to launder money, there are many crypto exchanges for example where users can withdraw up to 2 bitcoin per day comfortably without kyc, i could selectively use those type of exchanges instead of casino where as little as $5000 withdrawal could trigger the kyc system and ruin the whole show for me.
I could chose up to 5 or 6 or even more of those exchanges where i could withdraw up to 2 bitcoins without kyc depending on how much i want to launder, and sign up on those exchanges with different email addresses.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on July 29, 2023, 04:48:06 AM

Quote from: tusandii on July 28, 2023, 11:18:49 PM

Yes, in the government system, indeed corruption has been embedded from the bottom to the top and they are connected to each other which can protect a little from the acts of corruption that are carried out.
Even though not all government people commit acts of corruption, most of them have entered the circle of corrupt officials.

Usually some of them take a fair share in illegal business and of course when there are people who have the power to enter into illegal business it can run more smoothly without fear of problems occurring.
People like this will look for crypto exchange platforms or gambling sites that are still free so that they can easily rotate money so that they cannot be tracked by the authorities.

And it seems that it has happened because of the increase in users using crypto so I think they have also taken part in using crypto for illegal business. And those corrupt government officials also use crypto because they can freely carry out their illegal business without being found out by government officials carrying out their duties. But I think there must be a way to trace where the laundered money is being used and even if they use crypto, other government officials should be able to trace the actual whereabouts of the money and catch those corrupt officials. Thus, they can still be punished by the government so hopefully, it can reduce the number of people who do money laundering or other illegal businesses.

It's a shame that the government, which should be responsible for the progress of society and the state, is even involved in running illegal businesses just to get some money for personal gain.
Cryptocurrency is developing very rapidly nowadays and with cryptocurrency everyone can use it as an investment or trading tool so they can have an additional source of income but some irresponsible people even misuse crypto which makes many people think badly of the cryptocurrency industry.
If crypto trading platforms and gambling sites always suppress money laundering crimes then I believe cases of corruption and so on can be reduced because they have no place to do money laundering so that they are not traced if it is money generated from corruption or from illegal business.

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Quote from: slaman29 on July 29, 2023, 03:06:33 AM

BTW real money launderers use real cash and chips at real casinos. Crypto is much harder.

Another btw forgive me for saying but I think OP is just one of many people who doesn't really gamble, hence the notion of this loophole can work.

I'm thinking, is there a way that casino deposit conditions and processes can be bypassed for any launderer? Or will that be possible with casino owner and launderer. Because like you mentioned, it will be difficult to launder money through casino especially with KYC. Till date, government officials who launder money still do it with cash because of the personal relationship existing with the bankers who can easily bypass protocol for them .

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A launderer is often carrying a big amount. Now who's gonna risk such a big amount to launder? considering it's not his own money, an organization to be exact, and will the organization allow to use such a very risky tactic? Not to mention there is kyc and the probability of the site asking for more information if they found you suspicious. An organization will choose to do it under the table or do the usual thing they are doing.

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Quote from: avp2306 on July 29, 2023, 02:43:01 AM

Quote from: Bitinity on July 29, 2023, 01:40:53 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on July 28, 2023, 11:33:36 PM

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

It will rise a flag if the person repeat the same thing again and again because the system in the casino may detect it as an unusual thing. Clever criminal will not do it repeatedly in the same place, they will do it in various different casinos. As I said previously before in this thread, a clever criminal who want to launder their money will not use casinos as the place to launder the money unless they are also willing to take the risk of losing all the deposited money.

And I do believe that no criminal do their thing on same place because they can get easily busted if they do that. Those criminals are so smart to know what will be their next best action to do that's the reason why we see them escape so easily. Also I guess they are not using a casino now since KYC is already implemented and mostly they use mixers to cover up their foot tracks then escape from those authorities who want to track them.

True, they wont really be that so dumb on trying to wash out those tarnished coins via doing gambling knowing about the risks that they would be taking then they cant really just afford on doing so.
Aside from the house edge then they would be normally be trying out to deal with KYC since we are talking with huge amounts of money to be laundered here, so it would really be just normal that it would really be
ringing up the bell by the team or with the platform.

If someone would be pushing up with this kind of option then they are really just basically putting up themselves on big trouble.There are lots of things that could messed up on their main plans on washing off those coins. Its true and would be definitely be the best way on washing those coins is through mixers. Putting up huge money on centralized platforms and regulated ones is a no go. Im aint saying or supporting
those money launderers but they arent really that dumb ones to make such step which they would know that they would be fucked up.

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Quote from: tusandii on July 28, 2023, 11:18:49 PM

Yes, in the government system, indeed corruption has been embedded from the bottom to the top and they are connected to each other which can protect a little from the acts of corruption that are carried out.
Even though not all government people commit acts of corruption, most of them have entered the circle of corrupt officials.

Usually some of them take a fair share in illegal business and of course when there are people who have the power to enter into illegal business it can run more smoothly without fear of problems occurring.
People like this will look for crypto exchange platforms or gambling sites that are still free so that they can easily rotate money so that they cannot be tracked by the authorities.

And it seems that it has happened because of the increase in users using crypto so I think they have also taken part in using crypto for illegal business. And those corrupt government officials also use crypto because they can freely carry out their illegal business without being found out by government officials carrying out their duties. But I think there must be a way to trace where the laundered money is being used and even if they use crypto, other government officials should be able to trace the actual whereabouts of the money and catch those corrupt officials. Thus, they can still be punished by the government so hopefully, it can reduce the number of people who do money laundering or other illegal businesses.

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Loophole exists but casinos already know this and watch all accounts for this. Trust me, if you think you're smart and you thought of something that noone else did yet, you are so wrong.

BTW real money launderers use real cash and chips at real casinos. Crypto is much harder.

Another btw forgive me for saying but I think OP is just one of many people who doesn't really gamble, hence the notion of this loophole can work.

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Quote from: Bitinity on July 29, 2023, 01:40:53 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on July 28, 2023, 11:33:36 PM

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

It will rise a flag if the person repeat the same thing again and again because the system in the casino may detect it as an unusual thing. Clever criminal will not do it repeatedly in the same place, they will do it in various different casinos. As I said previously before in this thread, a clever criminal who want to launder their money will not use casinos as the place to launder the money unless they are also willing to take the risk of losing all the deposited money.

And I do believe that no criminal do their thing on same place because they can get easily busted if they do that. Those criminals are so smart to know what will be their next best action to do that's the reason why we see them escape so easily. Also I guess they are not using a casino now since KYC is already implemented and mostly they use mixers to cover up their foot tracks then escape from those authorities who want to track them.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on July 28, 2023, 11:33:36 PM

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

It will rise a flag if the person repeat the same thing again and again because the system in the casino may detect it as an unusual thing. Clever criminal will not do it repeatedly in the same place, they will do it in various different casinos. As I said previously before in this thread, a clever criminal who want to launder their money will not use casinos as the place to launder the money unless they are also willing to take the risk of losing all the deposited money.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on July 27, 2023, 04:48:57 PM

Quote from: maydna on July 21, 2023, 08:30:44 AM

Quote from: blockman on July 20, 2023, 06:41:35 PM

A gambler may still be able to find some loophole but casinos are no dumb when it's all about with these matters. They'll be having those triggering alerts if an account/user is doing something off the coast and that's why there's always those complaints that we're seeing posted here about their delay of withdrawals. The blame goes to the casino where they're gambling but in the first place, they are aware that money laundering is prohibited in most of them because they're being regulated by the country where they're operating.

The casinos must know it somehow because the casinos own the business. In having a gambling business, the casino must have had special ways to deal with these fraudulent gamblers and be able to find out which gamblers did it. Perhaps it takes time because it depends on the security team's work from the casino, but on average, it doesn't take long for them to find it. Gamblers who commit money laundering with the excuse of using big money must be prepared for all the risks, and if they decide to continue using gambling, it means they are ready for all the risks.

It won't take long because they can easily see the deposit amounts of their gamblers.
Now, for most high rollers, casinos are requiring to undergo KYC depending on how strict the casino is complying with the regulations.
If the casino doesn't care as some won't bother as long as they are earning from it, but usually issues arise when the player wins big.
And that will be the subject of investigation and they will dig more about the transactions of that player.
But if you are a high roller, always best to think that the casino would ask your credentials, whether you are winning or losing so you will not be caught in the middle with your funds frozen.

You have talked about two different things here. First if a person deposits small amount of money and he win a big amount through gambling then of course the casino will go through the KYC process of that gambler but I don't think that he is likely a money launder because a money launder motive will be to deposit big amount and withdrawal the same.

Secondly a clever criminal may deposits small amount of money at once and then withdraw them after wagering them and not deposit high amount of money in order to avoid the notice of the gambling house. They may repeat this process again and again

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on July 28, 2023, 09:28:55 AM

Quote from: tusandii on July 27, 2023, 11:36:09 PM

Even so, a criminal cannot do much when he has to be confronted with orders or law enforcement.
Maybe criminals can use hackers to help but the hacker network owned by the government is also reliable enough that they can even track and fight the hackers used by some of these criminals.
I'm sure that corruption or embezzlement of funds within the government system occurs in any country and the only country with the lowest corruption cases, in my opinion, is only North Korea.

Maybe in other countries, it is not easy to eradicate corruption because it has occurred from the lowest level to the highest so when there are corruption operations, they will go to places where they cannot or are difficult to detect. Moreover, many high-ranking government members are involved in corruption cases but unfortunately, they are not proven to have committed corruption. And those people have probably run illegal businesses from casinos, and drug factories, abuse government policies and pretended they are immune from the law and can't be caught. The cyber war is also ongoing until now and each of them puts out their best ability to avoid attacks from the enemy. And the ones who have nothing to hold on to will fall victim to it so those at the top of the chain remain untouched.

Yes, in the government system, indeed corruption has been embedded from the bottom to the top and they are connected to each other which can protect a little from the acts of corruption that are carried out.
Even though not all government people commit acts of corruption, most of them have entered the circle of corrupt officials.

Usually some of them take a fair share in illegal business and of course when there are people who have the power to enter into illegal business it can run more smoothly without fear of problems occurring.
People like this will look for crypto exchange platforms or gambling sites that are still free so that they can easily rotate money so that they cannot be tracked by the authorities.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on July 28, 2023, 01:39:56 PM

Quote from: lixer on July 28, 2023, 01:26:49 PM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on July 27, 2023, 05:01:36 PM

Quote from: TimeTeller on July 27, 2023, 04:48:57 PM

It won't take long because they can easily see the deposit amounts of their gamblers.
Now, for most high rollers, casinos are requiring to undergo KYC depending on how strict the casino is complying with the regulations.
If the casino doesn't care as some won't bother as long as they are earning from it, but usually issues arise when the player wins big.
And that will be the subject of investigation and they will dig more about the transactions of that player.
But if you are a high roller, always best to think that the casino would ask your credentials, whether you are winning or losing so you will not be caught in the middle with your funds frozen.

You are right, casinos know every bit of what there customers are does or are doing, a proof to this is, think and tell if someone has ever cheated in a casino game, and won as a result of cheating, then he or she placed a withdrawal request, and the casino processed the withdrawal request without questioning the user through either asking them to pass kyc verification or in any other form?, there have been none I know of.
So indeed, casinos know everything that goes on around their platform, if a casino allows a supposed gambler to use their platform to launder money, and the casino kept quiet about it, know it that the casino benefitted huge from that act and that is why they kept quiet, in such a situation, when the wrath of the law come in force, such casino will go in for it most especially if they can not provide the personal data of the said user who carried out the operatin.

If we are talking about online casinos, then there is literally no way one can cheat a casino unless they have some error or a bug in their system that gives a player an advantage in which case the player might not be punishable if caught but they might take back what has been won by the player, but, cheating is not possible in an online casino, tell me how can one cheat when the options and everything they have are just what the casino is providing itself?

The only way a player might be able to cheat a casino is when they are offering some bonus and a player tries to claim the bonus with multiple accounts using different IP addresses and everything, but even in such cases, you can't call that cheating, it can be called abuse of the bonus but not cheating.

Well, you are right, but how about if a player discovers a bug in the online casino's system first before the casino and then decides to exploit it, that is use it to his or her own advantage, isn't that cheating as well, and wont the casino punish such a user when they get to find out?

On the issue of players abusing a bonus, yeah, that I completely agree is not cheating, and I wont call it abuse also, I will rather refer to that as the player being smart, yeah, a casino launching a bonus should already know that if they don't put measures in place to deter participants from claiming multiple times, players will definitely want to claim multiple times, and in such situation, I do not blame the players but the casino for doing one part of a promotion and neglecting the most important part which i can refer to as security.

When launching a promotion then it would really be just normal that casino or the platform should really be mindful in terms of security and those measures for it to be that able to avoid those possible
abuse or exploits with those bonuses and promotions on which it would really be causing up that possible expense or would really be negative in revenue because not all possible exploits could really be seen through and there might be those players who do able to exploit without being noticed but of course it would be depending because once there's an exploit then it would pertain about those huge
withdrawals on which it would really be ring out the bell that there's something happening behind but it would be depending if the team would really be keen when it comes to those probabilties.

Money laundering is really that very common on gambling site but the methods and ways on how to clean up those dirty coins would be imposing such risks on that players side on which it would
really be not that ideal most of the time. Wagering with low odds but against with the house edge? You are really taking some suicide for longer runs.

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Quote from: lixer on July 28, 2023, 01:26:49 PM

If we are talking about online casinos, then there is literally no way one can cheat a casino unless they have some error or a bug in their system that gives a player an advantage in which case the player might not be punishable if caught but they might take back what has been won by the player, but, cheating is not possible in an online casino, tell me how can one cheat when the options and everything they have are just what the casino is providing itself?

The only way a player might be able to cheat a casino is when they are offering some bonus and a player tries to claim the bonus with multiple accounts using different IP addresses and everything, but even in such cases, you can't call that cheating, it can be called abuse of the bonus but not cheating.

Yes, you are right when it comes to casinos to see when a weakness in the system can compromise the game of the players and make them win, but this is due to an error, or a bug that is so common in games, but I have I have seen here in the forum that there are cases where this has happened and people who manage to do something and withdraw sometimes have their withdrawal suspended, and this does not seem appropriate to me, because if the person won and is going to withdraw, that person did not know that he was failing, that lends itself to misunderstandings, it is best for the casino to assume that they have lost and for the person to withdraw , but there are casinos that are not like that, the bad thing is that if the player makes a mistake, the casino does not forgive or return the money. money , those are the dilemmas of life.

Topic: Loophole in stopping Money Laundering through Wagering - page 3. (Read 1678 times)