Topic: [LTC-GLOBAL] Litecoin Silver [Shutting Down] - page 3. (Read 8639 times)

OK! I just received another Oz of silver, so I will be releasing 31 shares in 18 minutes! I'm trying to give everyone a chance to buy, so I will be releasing shares 1 at a time, so hopefully multiple people get a hold of some. In the mean time, I'll be getting pics of it .

I wonder how much dollars will be worth when silver is $310 and ounce... Postage might skyrocket too...

-MarkM-

It was brought to my attention, by a lovely fellow by the name of Walruscode, that in my asset terms, I have specified that during withdrawal from the fund, I will charge a 1 Share fee, which will cover the cost of the Mailer to mail it + my time (at current rate, my time is worth $.25). What I had not thought about, is, for example, should Silver value go up to $310/Oz in the next few years, I would be charging $10 in order to withdraw from the asset. That is entirely too much, and something that I had not thought of when setting the flat fee, which comes out to approximately 3% for a 1 Oz withdraw, 1.5% for a 2 Oz withdraw, and so on. Although the 3% maximum fee does sound very reasonable, if Silver decided to follow in Gold's footsteps and drastically increase in value, this 3% fee would be entirely too much.

So, as soon as the feature is added, I will be proposing a vote to change the contract about this subject only, and will change the fee to something lower should the value of Silver skyrocket.

I'm actually pretty lost by what you are talking about, but I think I have an idea? I mention in my contract, and I quote " I will be shipping
from the U.S, so please look into local laws, and be prepared to pay any
applicable taxes or fees imposed by your country at customs should they decide fit." Under the Shipping Cont. section. I believe most of the people that use the bitcoin forums are responsible enough to know how to do a Google search to make sure they wont be getting someone knocking at the door because they claimed something illegally. And in case they aren't, that's why I put that into the contract as a liability waiver. I don't really want to just save my ass, I want to remind people to act responsibly. Cryptocurrencies are about freedom, but keep in mind, your 100,000 BTC won't do you much good in prison. (Although I highly doubt you could go to prison for receiving an ounce or two of silver in the mail)

Hmm evidently it was not clear that it is in the context of running an accounting/inventory system (server) that I want to avoid having anything to do with fiat. Killing people* to loot their corpses for coins the local magic-shop will sell you magic wands for just seems a whole lot less fraught with regulations than does killing people* to loot their fiat currency.

(* By "people", I of course here mean "people's characters/avatars in the virtual environment presented by their computer".)

Similarly, playing poker with a bunch of ogres and goblins to win coins to buy magic wands with seems also less fraught with regulations.

Being a magic-wand transmitter or even a coupons for buying magic wands transmitter seems to have less regulations around it than being a "money transmitter" in a context where what is meant by "money" is "fiat money".

Even merely offering any player who manages to accumulate a certain number of wand-tokens an ounce of real physical silver delivered to them via snail-mail might have regulations around it in some jurisdictions on the planet known as Earth...

-MarkM-

Well, litecoin will never be as valuable as Bitcoins, no one thinks it will, because that's not how it was designed. Bitcoins are supposed to be the dollars in transactions, and Litecoins the quarters. Now I'm not saying that Silver is 100% the best investment, hell if Litecoin does well, you would probably be best off taking 10,000 LTC, and just holding them until they are worth something. Imagine if you had done that with Bitcoins, and if you don't have to imagine, well feel free to share some of the $100K you rich bastard 1Bqj9TndxJKiHJVf98vyoaQ9uEeWQuSJMw .The problem there lies, will they be worth something if you don't use them? If Litecoin turns out to outpace silver, so be it. My asset will die, people will get their silver, and that will be the end of it. But, I still accomplished my goal of helping to create a stable market for LTC, so no matter what, its a win win situation.

I'm not so much worried about the regulations that will be places on Silver. It has been a while since it has been accepted as a currency (in the U.S anyway) so at this point and time, it is a commodity. There are already regulations on precious metals, there are regulations on trading salt I'm sure, but Precious metals are tied a lot closer to Cryptocurrencies than fiat. Before Cryptocurrencies, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Paladium where how people that were paranoid that the fiat monetary system would fail would invest. They still do. And there are still the people that are hoarding Precious metals for the Apocalypse, because what good will Bitcoins be without any electricity?

Anyone here that says they avoid fiat is full of carp, I'm assuming the majority of the people on these forums work a regular job, they have a house payment, car payment, whatever. And until you can pay off your house in Bitcoins, Cryptocurrency users will still use fiat currencies. When you go to a store, and buy something, do you just stare at the $20 bill you pulled out of your pocket, and stare at it loathingly? I sure hope not. What I'm trying to say is, there's nothing wrong with fiat currency, its just an opinion that many of us hold is that investing in non fiat measures is a good idea.

Your focus seems somewhat self-defeating in a way then, because if litecoin does in fact follow in botcoin's footsteps, becoming such a reliable long term growth of value asset that it outpaces silver, it seems rreasonable to think your success in accomplishing that will also result in lack of interest in your offering.

Thus to me it makes more sense to offer a silver asset to a panoply of all the currencies aka assets that happen at the time to not yet have reached that point where they are outpacing silver.

My primary problem with holding physical silver myself is I am worried that, due to its long history as a form of money in much of the world, it might turn out to be as fraught with ghastly legal minefields/regulations as fiat, making all the effort of avoiding having anything to do with fiat moot. (I do not want to deal with the stuff if it is so close to fiat itself that dealing with it is as much of a can of worms as dealing with fiat is.)

-MarkM-

Well, there are Silver assets for BTC, but they haven't had quite as much success, because at this point, you are sometimes better off just holding onto the BTC themselves, and riding those 25% daily value  variations. But with every good idea, there are imitators, so I'm sure people will copy this asset, but hopefully in all of the other coins, so everyone can have the same sort of service. I for one, am just not interested in those other coins at this point in time, and my mission is to raise the value and usefulness of LTC, so it can follow in the path of BTC as a useful cryptocurrency.

There is a huge market for precious metals via the Cryptocommunity, because the basic idea of mistrust of fiat systems is what backs both cryptos and precious metals. I have thought seriously about opening up a similar asset but with gold should this one be a great success, but the limitation there is the price of gold, and share value would have to be in 1 grain increments in order for it to be affordable per share.

Either way, I hope you can get a chance to support whichever coins you choose, and thanks for the question.

Understood, it just seems a pity if there is a safe reliable silver vault in the cryptocoin community to limit its usefulness to just one type of cryptocoin.

If there is in fact a lot of interest in precious metal assets in the cryptocoin community I guess I should re-evaluate whether to start stashing such metals in a safe deposit box or vault myself so I can add such assets to the repertoire of my Open Transactions server.

(I already rejected the idea of using some kind of e-gold / pecunix / liberty-reserve type service as back end for such assets, hence the need to have actual physical metal holdings of my own in order to offer such assets on my server aka exchange.)

-MarkM-

This is not a dividend paying asset, as I'm not making any trades between the Silver and USD with the investors money. No weekly gains, except when the value of silver goes up, and no losses, except for when the value goes down.

This asset helps LTC by basically providing something to do with them. When you can't do anything with a coin, its not worth anything, so by being able to buy shares in Physical silver, not only are you guaranteeing you LTC will be worth something, but you are still playing the market, but instead of BTC:LTC or LTC:USD, you are playing the LTC:Silver market. If ice cream cones had a definite value, and I could resell them based on stock market prices, I suppose I could make an asset for them too.

Why aren't you free to sell them for devcoins, groupcoins, or bitcoins? Well, I suppose you can if you want, just not through the LTC-Global exchange. Just like you can't trade for devcoins, or groupcoins (what are groupcoins?) on GLBSE. I could come up with many practical uses

1. Shorting LTC, if you don't think LTC will hold its value, buy something that will. (see current silver trends)

2. Increasing the value of LTC, like I said, if you can't do anything with LTC, they are worthless

3. Buying Silver, buy the shares and cash out if you really want to, I'll send the physical silver to your house, and you can sell that physical silver for Devcoins if it floats your boat.

4. Use it as collateral as a loan, I just started seeing people using BTC collateral for loans, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for LTC. If you wanted a BTC or LTC loan, offer to let the other person hold your shares as collateral. Its the same concept if you went into a bank and listed your silver assets as collateral.

5. Just play the market, if you want to make more LTC, just buy the silver on its low days, and sell on its high days, and make yourself some LTC.

And so I ask, if someone wants devcoins or whatever other coin they want, why not just exchange your litecoins for them? If you really want, go ask GLBSE to offer BTC/LTC/DVC/NMC/SC acceptance, and I'll list my asset there. Also, I suppose the fact that I don't use any other coins besides Litecoins and Bitcoins has something to do with it, but the main point is, why should I or any exchange accept coins they don't want to? I honestly don't value Devcoins at anything. If someone wanted to transfer me 100 Million Devcoins, I don't think I would care too much, unless if I could exchange them for BTC.

Is this to be a dividend-paying asset?

If not, I do not see anything other than possibly the limitations of the trading platform that makes it anything more to do with litecoin than with any other asset, be it bitcoin or fiat or icecreamcones or packages of chewing gum or grams of gold or devcoins or groupcoins or whatever.

Once someone has some of these grams of silver, why should they not be free to sell them for devcoins, or groupcoins, or bitcoins, or anything else they would like to buy with them?

Possibly you are letting the tunnel-vision of some existing trading platforms blind you? A general purpose platform such as Open Transactions for example has no prejudice as to which two assets users can choose to trade, among all assets that the server has contracts for...

-MarkM-

The first 31 Shares has been released! 186 more shares will be released as the silver starts arriving! Thanks to the people that bought the first shares, and welcome to LTC-SILVER.

Ok! So I finally got a hold of some silver. I just have to wait for it to arrive via the mail. One major announcement that I will be announcing in the OP as well, is that I will be cutting the no minimum withdraw from fund amount. People are hassling me to buy 1 gram pretty bars, but don't want to pay anything over spot for them, when in reality, they are going to cost me 300% of what I'm going to be selling them for. That just doesn't work well. So instead, I will be changing the minimum withdraw from fund amount to 1 Oz. This is still a fairly small amount, but it makes it so much more convenient for both parties. All policies regarding withdrawal and everything else will remain the same, I will be attempting to have the contract edited with this revision, and then I will release shares as soon as the silver arrives. Thanks for sticking with the project, and this will 100% be up this week.

No problem, thanks for the question.

I see. Okay that clears things up. Thanks.

Well, the point is, if you want to trade back and forth between LTC and physical silver, by investing in a mutual fund, you can instantly trade your silver assets for LTC without having to deal with logistics of shipping and payments, as well as shipping costs. And should you decide you want to invest back, rather than finding another seller, you can just buy more shares.

edit* can't should have been can.

Can someone explain to me why it would be better to invest in a mutual fund that is backed by silver as opposed to just buying physical silver and holding it myself?

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