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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29798. (Read 26717236 times)

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
Adam can you kill your clone?  I know imitation is flattery but we have enough fonzies around here already.  Actually while you're at it, could you kill him too? Wink

 you hold the power to kill comments, use the ignore button.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
Except for a few who can use bitcoin while traveling abroad, most Chinese cannot use their bitcoins as currency, and have no expectation of doing so.  So, why would they put their real money into bitcoins, and hold on to them?

Two reasons come to mind:  They want to invest in the technology, or they want to hedge against a change in government.  Governments often change.  Fiat currencies, historically, have always failed.  Just as they cannot use gold in commerce, so too they cannot use bitcoin in commerce.  Just as they buy gold as a store of value, so too they buy bitcoin as a store of value.  Both are free of counterparty risk, unlike fiat currencies.  The Chinese national appetite for gold proves that they understand this well, and act upon it, en masse, practically.



Oh and another reason I can think of... if Cryptos grow and grow, and the rest of the world adopts them, and the sky does not fall in around everyones ears, then in two years time do you think China will just sit it out? I do not, they will simply flip flop.. and change their mind...  "never" is not as long in Bitcoin time as it is in real time...  

Two things people seem to have trouble with exponential function and extrapolating into the future rather than thinking linearly.

Good chance China changes its mind, sure they will never allow at least in the near to mid term future for crypto it to replace the Yuan, big woop, so what who cares, same as all the rest of fiat..  cryptos do not have to , that is not even an argument at this stage... things do not even have to be priced and labelled in Bitcoin..but being able to use it as a payment method and convert the yuan cost to Btc and back... yeah if the rest of the world goes with Cryptos, I can imagine that the chinese will allow that sooner or later...

So the short answer is another reason a Chinese man may be happy to hodl coins = time = things change - and tey may well change in Btc's favour.. not such an insane reason to keep and hold coin.

Plus the Macau party boys wil be allllll over it..


legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
I don't want to get all doom and gloomy, because the malleability problem will eventually get fixed.  However, I'm not convinced that the market has come to terms with the "step backwards" that bitcoin usability has just taken.  

What the malleability attack showed is that it is possible [and in some cases probable] that a zero-confirm transaction will become invalid even if both customer and merchant are honest, and proper fees were paid.  This affects the usability of bitcoin at brick-and-mortar stores as I describe here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5113081

The "fix" that should appear shortly is more of a "work-around."  Gmaxwell estimates it will be on the order of a year before the malleability issue is properly resolved.

The "work around" prevents wallets from using unconfirmed change outputs, thereby making all zero-confirm transactions in brick-and-mortar stores more trustworthy again.  But remember, this degrades usability: there are situations where you may only have unconfirmed change outputs in your mobile wallet, and thus you would not be able to immediately pay for your coffee [see my linked post above].

There's a work-around for this work-around too, and that involves making "smarter" wallets.   These smart wallets would ensure that you have a good supply of confirmed coins at your disposal, by breaking up large coins when necessary.  

The point I'm trying to make is that the malleability issue cannot be easily or quickly fixed, and the work-arounds have consequences themselves and take us a step-backwards in usability.  This will all be resolved eventually, but in the meantime, we've presented the forum trolls with an all-you-can-eat smorgasbord of troll food.




Solid analysis. Probably wasted in our little trollbox here, though Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
I don't want to get all doom and gloomy, because the malleability problem will eventually get fixed.  However, I'm not convinced that the market has come to terms with the "step backwards" that bitcoin usability has just taken.  

What the malleability attack showed is that it is possible [and in some cases probable] that a zero-confirm transaction will become invalid even if both customer and merchant are honest, and proper fees were paid.  This affects the usability of bitcoin at brick-and-mortar stores as I describe here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5113081


Should not be relying on transaction IDs anyway. A new private and public key for the seller should be generated for each transaction and then it is trivial to see that payment has been made.

Edit: Oh, ISWYM with the change. Shouldn't be terribly hard to work out though.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1094
Total bid sum on Gox is approaching $10 million. Wasn't btc around $100 last time there was that much on the order book?

True, but there were a lot more coins for sale. It's not yet the case. And on Bitstamp the bid side is still impressive.
KFR
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Per ardua ad luna
Adam can you kill your clone?  I know imitation is flattery but we have enough fonzies around here already.  Actually while you're at it, could you kill him too? Wink

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Ultranode
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/bitcoin-developers-ddos-fix-ready/

Any news from exchanges? Btc-e is working... What about Stamp?

The most interesting thing about this article is that of the three donations accepted (near bottom), one is Dogecoin.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
The protocol is broken as far as i know, they will release a statement in the next days.  Sad
I´m really startin to worry about Bitcoin. It was overall awesome in the last years, but it seems those days are gone and history.
From here on this is a downards spiral :-(
It was fun anyways as long as it lasted.

GOOD RIDDANCE!

lol
adamsgtBit


Quote
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.

Lols,  this is one hell of a moderated topic Smiley))))
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1010
I don't want to get all doom and gloomy, because the malleability problem will eventually get fixed.  However, I'm not convinced that the market has come to terms with the "step backwards" that bitcoin usability has just taken.  

What the malleability attack showed is that it is possible [and in some cases probable] that a zero-confirm transaction will become invalid even if both customer and merchant are honest, and proper fees were paid.  This affects the usability of bitcoin at brick-and-mortar stores as I describe here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5113081

The "fix" that should appear shortly is more of a "work-around."  Gmaxwell estimates it will be on the order of a year before the malleability issue is properly resolved.

The "work around" prevents wallets from using unconfirmed change outputs, thereby making all zero-confirm transactions in brick-and-mortar stores more trustworthy again.  But remember, this degrades usability: there are situations where you may only have unconfirmed change outputs in your mobile wallet, and thus you would not be able to immediately pay for your coffee [see my linked post above].

There's a work-around for this work-around too, and that involves making "smarter" wallets.   These smart wallets would ensure that you have a good supply of confirmed coins at your disposal, by breaking up large coins when necessary.  

The point I'm trying to make is that the malleability issue cannot be easily or quickly fixed, and the work-arounds have consequences themselves and take us a step-backwards in usability.  This will all be resolved eventually, but in the meantime, we've presented the forum trolls with an all-you-can-eat smorgasbord of troll food.

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
I can't help but think that when this non-issue is officially fixed - tomorrow? - it's going to fly.

Probably
And for traders, its probably a great opportunity.
For me the question is more one of what damage has been done credibility-wise, and how long it will take for that to wash through the system, and for people to forget about it. Let's be honest, the whole thing does not look great.
Flip side is that if it got fixed quick, some credibility is re-gained ...
Interesting times ...
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005

Note that the article was written before the Chinese stomped on bitcoin.

But even if nothing had changed, there is one little snag in that article.  If a Chinese citizen uses Yuan to buy bitcoins in China and then sells them for dollars in the US, there is no export of Yuan to the US actually.  Instead the guy gives his Yuan to other Chinese traders, and the US traders give him a bunch of dollars. 

So why would the Chinese government object to a Chinese national receiving a gift from americans?

Sure, after that transaction there would be fewer bitcoins in China and more bitcoins in the US.  But since bitcoins have no intrinsic value, the material wealth of China would not change. There would be still the same amount of food and cars in the Chinese market, and the same amount of Yuan in circulation inside China.

If bitcoins could be used to buy things in China, there might be some Yuan inflation as the bitcoins became scarce and the Yuan lost value relative to them.  But that is why the government banned their use in commerce.


You are onto something here. It might well be that they think this way, and see it as no problem. But still, the value will flow out of the country. I think the mercantilists in all countries will suddenly meet the harsh reality.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
I'm not saying we are reversing the bear market soon, but we are primed for a major snapback.  Maybe we have one more big sell off first, but I am ready to an entry point real soon and I hardly ever trade.
KFR
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Per ardua ad luna
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

It only moves Yuan from a Chinese pocket to other Chinese pockets.  The total amount of Yuan in China remains the same.

The total amount of Bitcoin remains the same (ignoring the mining aspect for a second) yet value goes up, value goes down.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
People claim bitcoin is broken... we go down
People claim bitcoin is fixed.... we go down

My DNS must have been hacked, because I look at the charts and see nothing out of the ordinary. 

Are people really alarmed because Bitstamp fell a mere 30$?


It's too much of a coincidence that the prices started to get down , even by 30$, right when the news about the fix started to appear.
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
I just cancelled all of my buy orders above 200$. Embarrassed
Months of desperation are in front of us. I think i´ll leave this place, it´s going to be a forum for depressives.
hero member
Activity: 624
Merit: 502
I can't help but think that when this non-issue is officially fixed - tomorrow? - it's going to fly.

Hope it recovers and everyone leaves Gox
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
People claim bitcoin is broken... we go down
People claim bitcoin is fixed.... we go down

My DNS must have been hacked, because I look at the charts and see nothing out of the ordinary. 

Are people really alarmed because Bitstamp fell a mere 30$?


But-but, gox is 480
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
I can't help but think that when this non-issue is officially fixed - tomorrow? - it's going to fly.
nah, dont think so

u dont get bitcoin

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