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Topic: [LAUNCHED] Bitcoincleanup.com: a website to stop Greenpeace's bitcoin FUD. - page 4. (Read 1921 times)

legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
1 - Should I start a counter-petition demanding the White House drop its anti-Proof of Work bills?
It's not a bad idea but I would certainly include someone who is already familiar with US law before starting any partition.
I am sure there are a lot of Bitcoiners who would support this petition, but you need to be smart and think one step ahead.
Making some kind of social media campaign along with bitcointalk campaign would be a great way to get more attention.

2 - Should I start a mailing list similar to what Greenpeace is doing?
I am not a fan of making any mailing list, those can easily get hacked or leaked, but I guess you could tell people to create new separate email for this puprose.

3 - Will people link to this site so that it quickly ranks on Google? In other words, will people actually use the site? (I've been in the SEO rat race for almost two years - I can tell you that it's impossible to get pageviews unless there are people actually willing to use the site).
I don't see any harm in doing this, if links are bitcoin related.
Google SEO and algorithm is not that great and I would say it can be bias especially if the green new deal invests a lot of money in opposite direction  Tongue

I would suggest that you try translating content of your website to all other major world languages, and I think you could even find few volunteers on this forum.
In other topic I already wrote about updating current logo and making it more different from green altcoin cash.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I've always felt the calculations about Bitcoin's energy consumption ignore the main cause of consuming any energy: the revenue Bitcoin miners earn. Many of the comparisons mention the hashrate per unit of energy, or improved energy efficiency, but none of that really matters. What matters, is how much money miners have to spend. That money goes to:
  • hardware
  • electricity
  • profit
If hardware gets more efficient, miners will buy more of it. If hardware gets more expensive, it's likely the hardware manufacturer uses more energy to produce it. If they make more profit, they (or other miners) buy more hardware to get a bigger piece of the pie. In the end, the main thing deciding energy consumption is how much money they earn. Bitcoin halvings are a major driving force to reduce miner's income, and thus miner's energy consumption. Until now, Bitcoin's value went up faster than the block rewards went down, but long-term, the halvings will lead to less money to spend. By that time, Bitcoin's energy consumption will depend on transaction fees.
And that got me thinking: long-term, converting to dollars doesn't really work because of inflation. So how about comparing Bitcoin miner's revenue to the oil price? I know it's not directly related, and I know miners mainly choose places with low electricity prices, but the oil price is one thing that's more or less the same worldwide.

Would anyone be interested in a graph, since the beginning of Bitcoin, showing the number of oil barrels earned per day from mining Bitcoin?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
I feel like you don't fight Greenpeace's FUD exactly. You're justifying why Proof-of-Work is good for both the users and the environment, but you don't debunk their anti-Proof-of-Work arguments.

First off, from your very first myths you're sticking to whataboutism, which is not what I'd classify as a strong argument.
Quote
Mining bitcoin is actually quite environmentally friendly, compared to mining gold.
Quote
Other human activities (Netflix) produce comparable (Amazon) results (YouTube).
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Televisions, airplanes, Christmas lights, and plastic all require enormous amounts of energy to be produced and used; what is the amount of energy considered excessive to produce them? Why is this calculation done for Bitcoin and not for other goods?

The process of mining bitcoins is being attacked, because the brainwashing lies on two aspects:
  • Bitcoin (as currency) isn't felt to provide essential benefit to the world.
  • Switching to Proof-of-Stake is seen as an environmentally friendly alternative with no trade-offs.

On your second paragraph, you explain the drawbacks of Proof-of-Stake, but I think it deserves another title than this:
Quote
Myth: Proof of Work is more wasteful than Proof of Stake

Proof-of-Work isn't more wasteful than Proof-of-Stake, because both are wasteful of the same magnitude: Zero. If the energy that is used, is used to secure the network it isn't wasted. I'd prefer having this title:
Quote
Myth: Proof-of-Stake comes with no drawbacks
or:
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Myth: Proof-of-Stake can replace Proof-of-Work with no tradeoffs

Further differences between these two mechanisms that emphasize on (de)centralization:
Quote from: me, stackexchange
Proof-of-Work

 1. Entrance of new voters can't be forbidden. All that's needed is energy and machines that are capable of calculating hashes. Therefore, a miner who once owned 1% of the hash rate, can't make sure he'll maintain his percentage forever.
 2. You can't try to cheat without being punished, because you're spending energy. For example, if a malicious miner, who owns 10% of the hash rate, tries to reverse a transaction 6 blocks deep, and fails, his real cost is equal with the income he could have had if he had chosen to mine bitcoin; he spent energy for nothing.
 3. It's very difficult to steal the units that contribute to the security of the network (e.g., ASICs, GPUs etc.)

Proof-of-Stake

 1. Entrance of new voters is down to the stakers' permission. A staker who owns 1% of the total coins in circulation (presuming the total supply is fixed) can retain the same voting power overtime, if he just chooses to hold them.
 2. You can cheat without being punished. That's known as Nothing-at-stake problem[1].
 3. It's much easier, compared to Proof-of-Work, to steal the units that contribute to the security of the network. For instance, say an attacker hacked an exchange. He'd instantly gain a lot of voting power.

One more core difference is that Proof-of-Stake doesn't give a solution to the Byzantine Generals' problem[2]. That's why it suffers from producing consensus, and that's why it's commonly referred to as "subjective mechanism"[3]; not objective as Proof-of-Work.


  [1]: https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/2402/what-exactly-is-the-nothing-at-stake-problem
  [2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20090309175840/http://www.bitcoin.org/byzantine.html
  [3]: https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/11/25/proof-stake-learned-love-weak-subjectivity

Fourthly, on your fourth paragraph, I'd add that Proof-of-Staked Bitcoin has already been implemented, and failed miserably: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoinpos/. I'm telling you this, because you're saying that a change has to be good, and been demonstrated in real-world conditions. Also, I'd absolutely remove this:
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Such an agreement has not been reached for the use of Proof of Stake in Bitcoin. In fact, a majority of users are opposed to this change because Proof of Stake has not been trialed thoroughly.

And replace it with:
Quote
Such an agreement has not been reached for the use of Proof of Stake in Bitcoin. In fact, a majority of users are opposed to this change because Proof of Stake is not approved by the Bitcoin community due to the drawbacks that are explained above.

Not being trialed is a weak argument (it's not even a valid argument, it's been trialed to thousands of altcoins, Bitcoin-fork included). We've already debunked Proof-of-Stake from the core. Why not using this instead to convince it's a fundamentally flawed mechanism?




The text from cleanupbitcoin should be a meat and drink for us. Here's some easy to counter-argue parts:
Quote
Bitcoin uses an outdated technology called proof-of-work to validate transactions.
Quote
As Bitcoin's price surges, so, too does its energy use.
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We know Bitcoin stakeholders are incentivized not to change.
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We know crypto doesn’t need much energy to work.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
So... I took off my beloved cap to wear the bitcoincleanup.logo.

I'm getting some signatures designed as well, so if you guys aren't in a sig campaign, you can wear that too if you want, when those are ready. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
According to data from the Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index devices kept on standby, in the United States alone, could power the bitcoin network for more than a year and a half - a figure that has been constantly decreasing.
I got curious how they got to this number, and especially why it's decreasing (is that because Bitcoin uses less energy, or because devices on standby use more?) but I couldn't confirm the 1.5 years from the source link.

Then, on the next slide:
The amount of energy consumed every year by always-on but inactive home devices in the USA alone could ... power the Bitcoin network for 3.6 years (source)
I assume devices on standby are the same as always-on but inactive devices, right? That's a large difference from the previous slide.

I'm pretty sure this statistic existed some years ago on the cbeci website because the image looks very authentic, but it has since been removed, and now the only journalistic reference I could find to this stat was a CoinTelegraph article that was written a few years ago. Wayback Machine to the rescue?
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
I had an hour's reflection on that. I think it's a good idea, and for better results, you should also wear the logo avatar as well, if you're interested in that kind of stuff.
I am interested but I can't do it at the moment. The avatar I am wearing now is a paid one. But I would love to come back to this when my current campaign ends.

I also though about suggesting that we could advertise your site the way we discussed it in Forum advertising space for free signature/avatar advertisement and Would you be interested in promoting Bitcoin projects/services for free? But I feel like it would be weird if it came from me in this particular time since I put myself on the list of those interested to take part in free promotions and now I can't since I am part of a different campaign. Undecided  


Edit: Good news for you and your site.
My current campaign just ended, so I can begin wearing the Bitcoincleanup.com avatar right now.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
According to data from the Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index devices kept on standby, in the United States alone, could power the bitcoin network for more than a year and a half - a figure that has been constantly decreasing.
I got curious how they got to this number, and especially why it's decreasing (is that because Bitcoin uses less energy, or because devices on standby use more?) but I couldn't confirm the 1.5 years from the source link.

Then, on the next slide:
The amount of energy consumed every year by always-on but inactive home devices in the USA alone could ... power the Bitcoin network for 3.6 years (source)
I assume devices on standby are the same as always-on but inactive devices, right? That's a large difference from the previous slide.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
In addition to rallying businesses and celebrities, etc that support Bitcoin, I'd also look up academics and scientists, even media, not necessarily to get them to throw their weight behind you (The Bitcoin Policy Institute already does that but they are not as objective as can be desired but can be a place to start) but to provide sound scientific research or push/advocate for such.

P.S GL! I'd offer to host indefinitely, but then I suppose you've got the small costs covered already (I've paid up for decades in advance).

Yeah, Carrd hosts the website for me on its own (AWS) servers, so I don't have to worry about DDoS woes among other things Smiley thanks anyway.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 3724
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
In addition to rallying businesses and celebrities, etc that support Bitcoin, I'd also look up academics and scientists, even media, not necessarily to get them to throw their weight behind you (The Bitcoin Policy Institute already does that but they are not as objective as can be desired but can be a place to start) but to provide sound scientific research or push/advocate for such.

P.S GL! I'd offer to host indefinitely, but then I suppose you've got the small costs covered already (I've paid up for decades in advance).
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
(I missed your post in the WO thread.)

Anyway excellent work... and I would love to know more about your logo... the greenish look is understood with white bitcoin logo looking neat but what's about this honeycomb mesh? or is it a leaf's photosynthesis cells?

The mesh is supported to make the shape resemble a bunch of pebbles - so there is green, the color of leaves, and the mesh gives it a kind of rocky look. It's supposed to represent environmental friendliness, and I managed to transform the orange bitcoin logo to this using some GIMP filters.

I think it would be better to add any supplementary information as a subdomain or in the Blog section. Otherwise I will have to do SEO all over again. >.<

Do you think a massive amount of views will really affect the Google rankings for it to be on top of the Google searches? We know these large companies are in bed with the governments and they have been exposed for manipulating these stats? (US elections)  Roll Eyes

Views do not contribute to Google rankings, it's the links. Especially the links on big websites.

I've been trying to contact CoinTelegraph to do a press release about this (considering that they had them just rolled out an opinion piece about the "Bitcoin vs Netcoin" thread), but I haven't heard back from them yet.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1965
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I think you are spot on with your predictions about the DDoS attacks, because there are a lot of people and governments with hidden agendas that will certainly do that.  Angry

Do you think a massive amount of views will really affect the Google rankings for it to be on top of the Google searches? We know these large companies are in bed with the governments and they have been exposed for manipulating these stats? (US elections)  Roll Eyes

In any way... thank you for driving this effort.... We will support you and forward the Url to everyone in our circle of friends.  Wink
copper member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 2890
Can someone with a Reddit account post this website to r/Bitcoin, I tried doing that from a newly-created account and it appears to be hidden from everybody.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/xo9k3q/defend_proof_of_work_from_green_hulks_a_website/


The website logo is copyrighted by myself and is licensed under CC0 (in other words, Creative Commons Universal 1.0).

I got a question regarding your Creative Commons Universal logo :p

Just in case people haven't heard, my Hulk-smashing Proof of Work website https://bitcoincleanup.com is live now. Spread the word if you want.

Good work NotATether although those who don't want to listen they won't but it worth trying. There are numerous articles and proven publications where it's established bitcoin isn't what mainstream media highlights but of course anything negative brings more attention and more views that is what those hungry dudes want they don’t care about the facts.

For an experiment you can create another website where just show how much energy bitcoin is consuming and compare it with any country like Argentina or post some bogus facts with big numbers like bitcoin consuming hundreds of terra watts per hours and then see the which website is getting more hits :p
 
Anyway excellent work... and I would love to know more about your logo... the greenish look is understood with white bitcoin logo looking neat but what's about this honeycomb mesh? or is it a leaf's photosynthesis cells?




Well it does look like a leaf too :p


legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
The website is live at https://bitcoincleanup.com
I am going to use your website in my personal text field. I hope more people can do it if they are not in a signature campaign or are part of one that allows the personal text space to be used for other messages. I am going to try something else, let's see if it works. More precisely, let's see if a particular person agrees and listens to me.  

I had an hour's reflection on that. I think it's a good idea, and for better results, you should also wear the logo avatar as well, if you're interested in that kind of stuff. Here is an 80x80 image you can use as your profile pic:

Code:
https://i.imgur.com/rgEu9Bh.png



The website logo is copyrighted by myself and is licensed under CC0 (in other words, Creative Commons Universal 1.0).



Can someone with a Reddit account post this website to r/Bitcoin, I tried doing that from a newly-created account and it appears to be hidden from everybody.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
The website is live at https://bitcoincleanup.com
I am going to use your website in my personal text field. I hope more people can do it if they are not in a signature campaign or are part of one that allows the personal text space to be used for other messages. I am going to try something else, let's see if it works. More precisely, let's see if a particular person agrees and listens to me. 
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
The website is live at https://bitcoincleanup.com now - fire your emails and tweets!

I would like to thank everyone who provided constructive feedback for the site. And all the environmental trolls, for motivating me to create this monument.

But remember that this was only the first part of the battle. Now, we must strike with all our might at the Proof of Work detractors. Let this website be your banner and rally under it.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Last call! I added a new letterhead that should be used to send emails to big and little personalities respectively. The email can even be sent to Greenpeace themselves Grin Jokes aside, they are arguably the #1 people who should be receiving these "emails of opposition to banning PoW" because it will demonstrate to them that their campaign is failing.

Do you guys have any feedback about the letters and call-to-actions on the front page before I make the site live?



EDIT:

No response at all?

Alright then. Let's start all the engines. Scotty, engage ship to warp 9 speed.


legendary
Activity: 3332
Merit: 1617
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
It’s really irritating but in reality their attempts at a coup will not work. Any true bitcoiner will totally reject tgeir shitfork. I will gladly accept & dump their forked shitcoin on the market. It’ll be like the fork wars back in the day, they’ll be dumped into irrelevance.

These people just do not get what bitcoin truly is & what it stands for. They can all fork off:)
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
I actually have the Premium version, I purchased it 1.5 years ago when I was a writer for OWNR Wallet (thanks iTunes gift cards). But no, I haven't ran the website through any kind of checker, only the legal letters. Because as you can imagine, I was paranoid of spelling errors and inaccuracies of intent in them.
Grammarly did pick up a few typos as well. Those are corrected in the quoted part of my previous message, but I didn't single them out in any way.
I don't see the need to have a welcome message if that message will only sum up what was already written on the website.   
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
if it is of interest
https://youtu.be/JM1L3Lobdsk?t=114

RIOT asic farm that buys electric from texas grid in 2 year contract allotments. sells electric back to the grid in high electric demand periods

Yeah, I think All Things Bitcoin talks about that too (The one I embedded onto the site - I just watched it).
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
if it is of interest
https://youtu.be/JM1L3Lobdsk?t=114

RIOT asic farm that buys electric from texas grid in 2 year contract allotments. sells electric back to the grid in high electric demand periods
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