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The first rule about discussing consciousness: Acknowledge that Chalmers is required reading, understand Chalmers' viewpoints, and go from there. Chalmers' work is really important.
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IN THE LETTER “NEUROSCIENCE AND THE
soul” (27 February, p. 1168), M. J. Farah and
N. Murphy state that eventually neuroscience
and the material system it describes may be
able to explain all facets of being human. This
idea strikes me as a somewhat naïve and simple
faith in scientific progress rather than an
accurate assessment of current thinking on
this issue. Some years ago, the philosopher
David Chalmers referred to the problem of
consciousness (how physical processes in the
brain give rise to subjective experience) as the
“hard problem” (1). We are no closer to knowing
or understanding how this happens today,
so the problem remains hard and should be
acknowledged as hard. In the absence of such
understanding, personal opinions and beliefs
about this question should not be presented as
genuine knowledge.
soul” (27 February, p. 1168), M. J. Farah and
N. Murphy state that eventually neuroscience
and the material system it describes may be
able to explain all facets of being human. This
idea strikes me as a somewhat naïve and simple
faith in scientific progress rather than an
accurate assessment of current thinking on
this issue. Some years ago, the philosopher
David Chalmers referred to the problem of
consciousness (how physical processes in the
brain give rise to subjective experience) as the
“hard problem” (1). We are no closer to knowing
or understanding how this happens today,
so the problem remains hard and should be
acknowledged as hard. In the absence of such
understanding, personal opinions and beliefs
about this question should not be presented as
genuine knowledge.
Haha, the guy who wrote this (it's a letter to Science) is on my dissertation committee. Apparently he is a fan of Chalmer's as well. I definitely agree with the last line.
No, I am not an expert in paramecium. I can guess how "memory" would work though based off how mammalian cells function.
Let me rephrase that to just be: Let us explore how consciousness and event horizons may be related.
I don't know where to take this.
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And I know paramecium have no neurons. Plastic has some semblance of memory, as for learning, I would say no.
Paramecium have memory. Plastic has memory. Tall buildings have stories. Novelists have stories.
However, I will admit I am not an expert on paramecium. Are you? Feel free to find scholarly papers on the study of learning among paramecium. I might engage in similar activity.
This is why you spent 20 pages arguing with a strawman
Don't confuse illustration, education and explanation with whatever you would like to believe it is.
Thank you FirstAscent for your service.
Thank you. I assume that you're thanking me for pointing out and explaining that essentially all arguments against global warming can be shown to be deceptive and lacking in sound science and funded by Big Oil, and strangely, instigated by the same individuals who also argued against regulations of the tobacco industry. The implication, of course, is that if there were actually sound science against global warming, it would exist, instead of all the deceptive propaganda out there masquerading as science.
The conclusion: global warming is real, mankind contributes to it, and the science behind it is sound.
This is why you spent 20 pages arguing with a strawman
Thank you FirstAscent for your service.
Thank you. I assume that you're thanking me for pointing out and explaining that essentially all arguments against global warming can be shown to be deceptive and lacking in sound science and funded by Big Oil, and strangely, instigated by the same individuals who also argued against regulations of the tobacco industry. The implication, of course, is that if there were actually sound science against global warming, it would exist, instead of all the deceptive propaganda out there masquerading as science.
The conclusion: global warming is real, mankind contributes to it, and the science behind it is sound.
Just found this:
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The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics, which implies that the maximal entropy in any region scales with the radius squared, and not cubed as might be expected. In the case of a black hole, the insight was that the informational content of all the objects which have fallen into the hole can be entirely contained in surface fluctuations of the event horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principleLet's change gears:
Perhaps consciousness could be interpreted as the opposite of an event horizon. What do you think?
I will think about what you mean by that and get back to you later. I'm done for the day. Oh, and paramecium have no neurons - they are single celled organisms that can learn and have some semblance of memory.
Let me rephrase that to just be: Let us explore how consciousness and event horizons may be related. And I know paramecium have no neurons. Plastic has some semblance of memory, as for learning, I would say no.
Thank you FirstAscent for your service.
Just found this:
Quote
The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics, which implies that the maximal entropy in any region scales with the radius squared, and not cubed as might be expected. In the case of a black hole, the insight was that the informational content of all the objects which have fallen into the hole can be entirely contained in surface fluctuations of the event horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principleLet's change gears:
Perhaps consciousness could be interpreted as the opposite of an event horizon. What do you think?
I will think about what you mean by that and get back to you later. I'm done for the day. Oh, and paramecium have no neurons - they are single celled organisms that can learn and have some semblance of memory.
Why do you think the possibility of emergence is not the prerequisite for qualia?
Because by invoking emergence, you have explained nothing, and made things more complex. That's an indication that you might be on the wrong track.
Just found this:
Quote
The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics, which implies that the maximal entropy in any region scales with the radius squared, and not cubed as might be expected. In the case of a black hole, the insight was that the informational content of all the objects which have fallen into the hole can be entirely contained in surface fluctuations of the event horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principleLet's change gears:
Perhaps consciousness could be interpreted as the opposite of an event horizon. What do you think?
Why do you think the possibility of emergence is not the prerequisite for qualia?
The magic is multiplication?
Clarify. As in:
1. Amplification
2. The H20 Phenomenon.
Which?
I think both, or, more fundamentally, amplification. Amplification of the degrees of freedom gives rise to phenomenon such as collections of H2O molecules transparent to certain wavelengths of light. The "amplifier" is
I'm not sure whether you read the H20 articles on wetness, as opposed to quantum effects. H20 as it pertains to consciousness is the fact that it is unintuitive that it would be wet - i.e. the wetness is an emergent property. Or something like that. The point is, it's different than just amplification.
All that aside, I can only see the prerequisites for qualia as being a fundamental property of the Universe. In other words, I don't buy emergence, except in the sense that particular structures, such as the brain, amplify and harness it in feedback loops and so on.
The magic is multiplication?
Clarify. As in:
1. Amplification
2. The H20 Phenomenon.
Which?
I think both, or, more fundamentally, amplification. Amplification of the degrees of freedom gives rise to phenomenon such as collections of H2O molecules transparent to certain wavelengths of light. The "amplifier" is
I have no idea what the H2O phenomenon is. Google didn't yield an answer right away. What is it? It sounds like a band.
Try adding the term consciousness to your Google search. It's a standard concept discussed with regard to consciousness.Ha, I added multiplication instead... one minute
I have no idea what the H2O phenomenon is. Google didn't yield an answer right away. What is it? It sounds like a band.
Try adding the term consciousness to your Google search. It's a standard concept discussed with regard to consciousness.
I have no idea what the H2O phenomenon is. Google didn't yield an answer right away. What is it? It sounds like a band.
The magic is multiplication?
Clarify. As in:
1. Amplification
2. The H20 Phenomenon.
Which?
The magic is multiplication?
Also I never dismissed "emergence", just that consciousness cannot be said to emerge at a certain point, unless you stratify consciousness.
Also I never dismissed "emergence", just that consciousness cannot be said to emerge at a certain point, unless you stratify consciousness.
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