Market Manipulation! Is it real? - page 2.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: Questat on September 26, 2024, 04:51:04 PM

Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

I don't doubt that it's actually real. With a lot of bitcoin whales this time who are holding significant amount of bitcoin, if they intend to manipulate the market, they can actually do that. But the effect won't be here too long. Eventually, if it dumped, it will recover again and even make a significant price increase if ever. Most particularly for altcoins as they are known to be pump and dump coins. Some couldn't even recover at all.

As we have observed thru the years, no one can really manipulate the btc market as the money involved is quite huge. This is why, even group of people can't influence the btc market for long-term. We are only left here to speculate and act according to what we have. Financial capability is usually the constraint for most as we have different resources of funds.

Questat

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Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

I don't doubt that it's actually real. With a lot of bitcoin whales this time who are holding significant amount of bitcoin, if they intend to manipulate the market, they can actually do that. But the effect won't be here too long. Eventually, if it dumped, it will recover again and even make a significant price increase if ever. Most particularly for altcoins as they are known to be pump and dump coins. Some couldn't even recover at all.

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Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

I will assumed that you are newbie to knowledge of trading and things around this place. Have you heard of crypto market makers? They are responsible for creation of liquidity and such people have money to make market to be liquid or dried because they have the money to make the market do their ways. If they want the market to go down, they have the power and if they want to pump the price, they also have the power and this is why even the centralized exchanges works with them hand to hand.

Some of the coins you see that are been listed on exchange and get pump, you think it's the traders that buy them and make it go up? No, it's not. When you check the number of people that are buying and selling, they bought most of the time to create a but pressure so the traders and retailers can dump with causing damage to the price. We have many of them out there and doesn't work with exchanges, they operate independently and can make any coin do their ways, manipulate people into buying and sell when they like. That's how this market works.

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Quote from: FortuneFollower on September 26, 2024, 01:49:47 AM

We can either blame them or join them, try, at least - Smart money is flowing each second, and it's our opportunity to see the flow and go onto the wave too. However, most of the time, news and actions of theirs would remain unknown to us, thus, we won't be able to utilize the info properly and in time.

That is why it is good to go for altcoins that have very high market cap if you want to trade altcoins, while bitcoin still remain the best. I will prefer to only trade bitcoin instead. Altcoins trading is good when the price of the coins have reduced so significantly over a long time period. And I will prefer to hold in such time. Many of the altcoins are easily manipulated and not worth trading frequently with it.

Barikui1

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Quote from: adaseb on September 15, 2024, 09:42:03 PM

People have been saying certain stocks have been manipulated for years. Whether its true or not is hard to prove.

Just today people are accusing Coinbase for providing IOUs instead of buying actual BTC to fund the BTC ETFs. Again whether this is true or not is hard to prove. People think that since the flows are positive for BTC it should be at $100K by now but its not, so they think there is some manipulation going on.

Whether the market is small or big, it wont take a big player to manipulate a certain crypto or stock anyway they want.

Yea, you are very much correct on the point you made, and I also share the same sentiment as you bro, right now, what most investors want to see is the green candle, so they can sell and withdraw profit, but since it's not happening, they will tend to think of conspiracy theory going on, which to me is not true.

Yes it's actually true that their are some big boys that moves the market to the their favor most times, due to how financially capable they are, them pulling out or putting money in the market affect the price of that asset immediate, but that doesn't falls under market manipulation to me because I believe that those actions by major financial institution are part of the game, so that is why the market moves the way it does, the unpredictable nature.
Though some people might think otherwise, but that's how I sees it.

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Quote from: Shishir99 on September 26, 2024, 01:36:03 AM

Quote from: Pandu Geddon on September 25, 2024, 07:42:45 AM

This can only be done by influential people and have high public trust. I don't care about the intended profit target. but the situation has succeeded in influencing the market.

It's true that it can be done by some influential people with having high public trust. It’s rare that these people will get involved in market manipulation, but it’s not like market manipulation does not happens. Think about how BitcoinMagazine played with the influence they have. Everyone says it’s just a mistake and they mistakenly published that news. While I would like to believe it was intentional. Because they opened a position on rollbit and take the profit right before they delete their post about ETF approval. I know these cases are rare, but it happens. Even though we cannot do anything, I would still blame those market makers.

We can either blame them or join them, try, at least - Smart money is flowing each second, and it's our opportunity to see the flow and go onto the wave too. However, most of the time, news and actions of theirs would remain unknown to us, thus, we won't be able to utilize the info properly and in time.

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Quote from: Pandu Geddon on September 25, 2024, 07:42:45 AM

This can only be done by influential people and have high public trust. I don't care about the intended profit target. but the situation has succeeded in influencing the market.

It's true that it can be done by some influential people with having high public trust. It’s rare that these people will get involved in market manipulation, but it’s not like market manipulation does not happens. Think about how BitcoinMagazine played with the influence they have. Everyone says it’s just a mistake and they mistakenly published that news. While I would like to believe it was intentional. Because they opened a position on rollbit and take the profit right before they delete their post about ETF approval. I know these cases are rare, but it happens. Even though we cannot do anything, I would still blame those market makers.

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Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

It's true that there are some people with a lot of money, and their deep pockets could manipulate the market a bit. This is also true that some media outlets are trying to cooperate with them as well and create news and push it heavily to move it a direction as well.

When you are talking about some crypto news website, a million dollars would be a huge huge money, whereas it's nothing for a whale. They probably pay like 50k a place, and push like lets say bear fear to everyone and people sell, so they buy cheap, and spend another 50k on each place to push bull and price goes up and they sell. Having a lot of money will have some advantages on moving the market, and since we do not have regulations like stock market, manipulation doesn't hurt them that much legally.

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Quote from: shawonngp on September 24, 2024, 11:46:21 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on September 22, 2024, 10:54:20 AM

Has any thief just stolen and shouted : "I'm a thief, catch me, catch me" ? Or is there any criminal who kills someone and then admits to being the murderer and publicly announces it to everyone ? Grin

It is true that we do not have any concrete evidence of market manipulation but that does not mean that the market is not manipulated . Even the stock market with a capitalization of over $100 trillion has been involved in multiple market manipulation scandals , let alone a small market like cryptocurrency .

You got the right point. a market manipulator will never admits about his/her cheating, but it's not rocket science to understand that market is looks manipulated or not, it's very simple calculation, in a project of course a significant amount of tokens holders from team or big investors, so they have power to manipulate in the market if they just go to sell their all tokens, it's called manipulation, it's absolutely possible, don't need to see other evidence.

Peoples those are having good skills and better knowledge about market and it's fundamentals understand all movements and also having good depth about this manipulation so they mostly avoid taking risk while things are never been as they are looking for but mostly newbies are suffered and lost their funds which is sad, but we can't do anything about them with just give them advice to go through into this field with precautious because it's never been easy to stay in crypto world on merit.

Whales are now having good control, and they are doing their tricks which are helping them for increasing their assets and small investors and newbies are losing their hard-earned money just because of these silly tricks which are happening around, but they are not able to understand recently we are having some good movements in few meme coins, but mostly peoples are under trap so they were not able to check and having loses.

Ararbermas

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If its not real there will be no fluctuations, i mean a huge up and down that no one can predict especially on some alternative coins wherein manipulators were so aggressive when they see an opportunity . Cheesy

Pandu Geddon

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Quote from: Shishir99 on September 25, 2024, 05:38:18 AM

This is true that we cannot actually do anything. Previously, Elon Mask was involved in market manipulation as well which he does not admit though. But everyone should know what he did in the past. At first, he bought a lot of Bitcoin and said his company would start accepting payment in Bitcoin which they did. Later, Bitcoin pumped a lot as the investor got some confidence.

A couple of months later, he started selling his Bitcoin at a better price because Bitcoin was already pumped after his announcement. Then again, he said that his company won't accept Bitcoin payments anymore. He does not support the idea of mining Bitcoin because it wastes electricity while his Tesla cars consume electricity as well. What are we able to do? Nothing.

This can only be done by influential people and have high public trust. I don't care about the intended profit target. but the situation has succeeded in influencing the market.

Worse things might be done to new token projects. this market manipulation practice can be done by token holders in large numbers especially if they are part of a project that can move its community. they can make positive news to refresh the community.

We can't blame this, and we can't do anything. All we can do is think logically to stay in our plan.

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Quote from: shawonngp on September 22, 2024, 10:29:49 AM

Why manipulation is not true? like just imagine if you are a owner of a project and your team is holding 30% coins in total supply, if your team is start selling all of those coins, that will not be highly reflected in the coin price? ..

This is exactly what happens when a team starts selling its tokens, they are joined by other holders who make panic sales, which leads to an even greater price reduction. And when the price reaches the minimum values, the team buys tokens at a reduced price and thereby increases their number in their wallet.

Shishir99

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Quote from: lixer on September 24, 2024, 08:40:10 AM

This is real problem we all are watching and understanding things are happening around us, but we can't do anything just guesses and images are surrounding us for the years we are reading and listening about this manipulation but no one able to bring any proof about this because we all know it's never been easy or in some cases possible to bring proof about this.

This is true that we cannot actually do anything. Previously, Elon Mask was involved in market manipulation as well which he does not admit though. But everyone should know what he did in the past. At first, he bought a lot of Bitcoin and said his company would start accepting payment in Bitcoin which they did. Later, Bitcoin pumped a lot as the investor got some confidence.

A couple of months later, he started selling his Bitcoin at a better price because Bitcoin was already pumped after his announcement. Then again, he said that his company won't accept Bitcoin payments anymore. He does not support the idea of mining Bitcoin because it wastes electricity while his Tesla cars consume electricity as well. What are we able to do? Nothing.

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Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

80% of memecoins Market are heavily manipulated that is just one aspect of market manipulation, because even Bitcoin market can be technically manipulated just that the impact of such manipulation will be very low at a point, but it can be low with memecoins, lately most of the memecoins have fake volume, fake market capitalization and so on, and this have lead to many losing their position due to asap liquidations of market position.

If you see ten opening in a memecoins market, just know that almost 8 out of the ten are just bots and the moment real investors put in money to open a position, the team's start acting with all the bots to get the price to liquidation point and taking off the trader from the market once his position get liquidated, this is another new means of scamming people.

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Quote from: shawonngp on September 24, 2024, 11:46:21 AM

You got the right point. a market manipulator will never admits about his/her cheating, but it's not rocket science to understand that market is looks manipulated or not, it's very simple calculation, in a project of course a significant amount of tokens holders from team or big investors, so they have power to manipulate in the market if they just go to sell their all tokens, it's called manipulation, it's absolutely possible, don't need to see other evidence.

It is highly possible for whales to manipulate market but not just any market but those altcoins market. That is why it is good to go for a better coin. Bitcoin is having a marketcap of over a trillion dollar which can be more resistable to market manipulation. But many people will trade altcoins and still be complaining of market manipulation. Then why are they not treading with bitcoin instead of gambling with altcoins.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on September 22, 2024, 10:54:20 AM

Quote from: shawonngp on September 22, 2024, 10:29:49 AM

Quote from: rhodelmabanal on September 20, 2024, 05:59:43 PM

I think it is not true, no one can prove that it is really manipulated by any group of people company or corps, it is only goes down and pump again because of some investors large or small do buy and selling, that is why there is a movement of the price depending on the volume of selling or buying pressure, i think manipulation is just a theory base on what people think and not on the reality.

Why manipulation is not true? like just imagine if you are a owner of a project and your team is holding 30% coins in total supply, if your team is start selling all of those coins, that will not be highly reflected in the coin price? of course price will be crash, so it's simple thing about market manipulation which is very much true.

Has any thief just stolen and shouted : "I'm a thief, catch me, catch me" ? Or is there any criminal who kills someone and then admits to being the murderer and publicly announces it to everyone ? Grin

It is true that we do not have any concrete evidence of market manipulation but that does not mean that the market is not manipulated . Even the stock market with a capitalization of over $100 trillion has been involved in multiple market manipulation scandals , let alone a small market like cryptocurrency .

You got the right point. a market manipulator will never admits about his/her cheating, but it's not rocket science to understand that market is looks manipulated or not, it's very simple calculation, in a project of course a significant amount of tokens holders from team or big investors, so they have power to manipulate in the market if they just go to sell their all tokens, it's called manipulation, it's absolutely possible, don't need to see other evidence.

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Quote from: Shishir99 on September 21, 2024, 06:56:19 AM

Quote from: Lanatsa on September 18, 2024, 08:26:20 AM

its not surprising that they would be making up those kind of possible manipulations in regarding on playing with those news or simply fundamentals.

Look, If the government entity gets involved in manipulating the market, that will be a real shame. The size of the ETF market is getting bigger every day and companies like Blackrock can manipulate the market. But if you see the recent case, it wasn't from any of those ETF companies or from the government entity. The manipulation was from the news media which is BitcoinMagazine.

I cannot imagine an online news media to do these manipulations. Luckily, people were able to catch them placing bets on Rollbit. Or else, we would never know it was just a pre-planned thing that they executed. They didn't admit that, but you should understand it.

This is real problem we all are watching and understanding things are happening around us, but we can't do anything just guesses and images are surrounding us for the years we are reading and listening about this manipulation but no one able to bring any proof about this because we all know it's never been easy or in some cases possible to bring proof about this.

Usually big companies involved in this manipulation but still it's never been easy in few cases we read few governments also done things for their own interest but as we know Bitcoin and crypto are decentralized so how things can manipulate it's also strange, but big community feel about this happening and things are going as these manipulators wants.

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on September 23, 2024, 02:57:29 AM

Quote from: rhodelmabanal on September 20, 2024, 05:59:43 PM

Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

I think it is not true, no one can prove that it is really manipulated by any group of people company or corps, it is only goes down and pump again because of some investors large or small do buy and selling, that is why there is a movement of the price depending on the volume of selling or buying pressure, i think manipulation is just a theory base on what people think and not on the reality.

distinguishing manipulation or genuine price movement is hard though, can't really determine what really happen if we don't get any real data about who buys and who sell.
thing such as manipulation could definitely happen but I think it's only possible in a coin that has low trading volume since it costs less.

with BTC, it won't happen, even recent microstrategy large buys up of BTC that just happened recently only moved the price of BTC slightly, I don't believe there's any whale that could move the price, BTC recent price also seems natural and purely influenced by the news.

but if we look at CMC there are some low trading volume coin that suddenly got thousand percent of increase, it could just be a large spot buying or the project delivering some outstanding things.

I do agree.
With big coins it won't affect them that much, for the reasons you described.
With new and low-cap coins - things can escalate quickly, as they are too volatile.
The manipulation is real, in my opinion, but with a different extent.

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on September 23, 2024, 02:57:29 AM

distinguishing manipulation or genuine price movement is hard though, can't really determine what really happen if we don't get any real data about who buys and who sell.
thing such as manipulation could definitely happen but I think it's only possible in a coin that has low trading volume since it costs less.

with BTC, it won't happen, even recent microstrategy large buys up of BTC that just happened recently only moved the price of BTC slightly, I don't believe there's any whale that could move the price, BTC recent price also seems natural and purely influenced by the news.

but if we look at CMC there are some low trading volume coin that suddenly got thousand percent of increase, it could just be a large spot buying or the project delivering some outstanding things.

It is true that Bitcoin manipulation is much harder than lower cap coins but that does not mean Bitcoin cannot be manipulated. Just a small movement like 5-10% is enough for whales to make significant profits, they don't need to find ways to manipulate to create 40-50% movements like shitcoin because they are using billions of dollars in bitcoin and 5% of 1 billion dollars is not a small profit.

If bitcoin is not easily manipulated, can you explain why bitcoin is so volatile with just 1 fake news spreading in the market? Remember the news about Mt.gox? Every time there is news that they are going to compensate investors, the market reacts and bitcoin gets dumped immediately and this has been going on for the past 10 years. What is that if not manipulation? A market that is so sensitive to news, even fake news, if that is not manipulation then what is?

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Quote from: rhodelmabanal on September 20, 2024, 05:59:43 PM

Quote from: Sabuj_pal on September 15, 2024, 09:29:22 PM

We often heard about market manipulation in crypto market. It can be true for small cap, or coin that issue by exchange or for the token where most of that token hold by team. But we also heard it about Bitcoin and etherum, when price fluctuate in large scale. I don't understand how these large cap coin can be manipulate, when these coin are well distributed and decentralized?

I think it is not true, no one can prove that it is really manipulated by any group of people company or corps, it is only goes down and pump again because of some investors large or small do buy and selling, that is why there is a movement of the price depending on the volume of selling or buying pressure, i think manipulation is just a theory base on what people think and not on the reality.

distinguishing manipulation or genuine price movement is hard though, can't really determine what really happen if we don't get any real data about who buys and who sell.
thing such as manipulation could definitely happen but I think it's only possible in a coin that has low trading volume since it costs less.

with BTC, it won't happen, even recent microstrategy large buys up of BTC that just happened recently only moved the price of BTC slightly, I don't believe there's any whale that could move the price, BTC recent price also seems natural and purely influenced by the news.

but if we look at CMC there are some low trading volume coin that suddenly got thousand percent of increase, it could just be a large spot buying or the project delivering some outstanding things.

Topic: Market Manipulation! Is it real? - page 2. (Read 1028 times)