MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 88.

superfluouso

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Quote from: Tachikoma on October 29, 2013, 02:24:56 AM

Quote from: maxmint on October 29, 2013, 01:56:16 AM

Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

Congrats Tachikoma, this is just awesome! It's just incredible how fast this is evolving.
Is the "Create new Selling offer" tool on your site already functional for public use?

In theory, yes. I used this myself to create the transactions. It does require some knowledge of bitcoind/qt command-line though, I've written some instructions here if you want to give it a go. Also remember I'm only allowing test Mastercoin transactions. However the Bitcoin you are using to send the messages is always real so be careful you are not using high values for your offers if you decide to create one.

Really cool Tachikoma - decided to give it a try. I was able to set up a sell offer no problem: mastercoin-explorer and blockchain

Really gotta get some sleep so didn't actually try to buy them from myself. Also, I'm a little curious to see how expired offers are handled and represented. FYI - I noticed on your instruction page you indicate "broadcastrawtransaction" rather than "sendrawtransaction" which I'm guessing is what you meant.

Tachikoma

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Quote from: maxmint on October 29, 2013, 01:56:16 AM

Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

Congrats Tachikoma, this is just awesome! It's just incredible how fast this is evolving.
Is the "Create new Selling offer" tool on your site already functional for public use?

In theory, yes. I used this myself to create the transactions. It does require some knowledge of bitcoind/qt command-line though, I've written some instructions here if you want to give it a go. Also remember I'm only allowing test Mastercoin transactions. However the Bitcoin you are using to send the messages is always real so be careful you are not using high values for your offers if you decide to create one.

maxmint

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Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

Congrats Tachikoma, this is just awesome! It's just incredible how fast this is evolving.
Is the "Create new Selling offer" tool on your site already functional for public use?

dillpicklechips

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While reading about Mastercoin and colored coins I came across this:

(killerstorm replying to dacoinminster about how "thin clients are fundamentally impossible")

Quote

Well, I see a problem: MasterCoin transactions are not linked together in a subgraph, so one needs to scan the whole Bitcoin blockchain to interpret them.

This means that thin clients are fundamentally impossible.
You are going to have either full clients (like Bitcoin-Qt) which download whole blockchain (8+ GB of data now).
Or server-trusting client, which undermines the whole point of having cryptocurrency. (If you are into that, just use Open Transactions: low overhead, impressive features.)

We discussed this topic in this mailing list, see discussion with Paul Snow and 'theory of colored coins'/'advanced color states' threads: you have to confine transactions to subgraph to make it friendlier to thin clients.

(It is hard to say whether it is friendly enough, but at least we have a chance to optimize and make trade-offs to make it acceptable... I don't see how it is possible with global messaging model without making it reliant on trusted servers.)

You can implement many MasterCoin features using colored coin model with advanced color states.

Or you can at least confine special transactions to a subgraph, so thin clients will have a chance to exist until MasterCoin transaction volume becomes high...

Quote

>The block-chain scanning requirements are a lot lower considering that I only need to scan transactions that reference the Exodus Address,

You need to scan whole blockchain to find all transactions which reference the Exodus Address.

Blockchain is a flat list of transactions, they aren't grouped by address or anything. And you need to process transaction to see which addresses it references.

You might use bloom filter feature to reduce traffic, but then you're at mercy of network nodes you've connected to: they might just 'forget' to send you some transactions, which might be used to rob user.

For example, suppose address XYZ has 100 coins. I will first send 100 coins to address ABC, and later 100 coins to address DEF.

Of course, second transaction is invalid, but if DEF's node haven't seen the first one, it will recognize second as valid...

Thus: unless you scan whole blockchain, you depend on honesty of nodes you've connected to.

>but thin client type solutions are going to be needed eventually.

I don't think there can be a solution if protocol is simply not designed with thin clients in mind.

Has there been any new developments on if it's possible to make it so that Mastercoin doesn't require trust in third parties? Or will the only people who can directly move Mastercoins without trust will have to have the entire blockchain and Mastercoin tools running locally?

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Luckybit on October 28, 2013, 10:42:04 PM

Quote from: vokain on October 28, 2013, 10:02:25 PM

Quote from: JohnnyBTCSeed on October 28, 2013, 09:48:00 PM

So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?

It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...

That is how I see it too vokain. If he sells that is actually good for the protocol. What matters is how he goes about selling it and whether it's dumped all at once or done intelligently over a long enough period.

I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.

If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.

For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.

As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.

Concern about utility > concern about price.

If he (or anyone) "dumps" >>% to folks that actually are using it, the value will increase. Use it, or lose it.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Luckybit on October 28, 2013, 03:26:27 PM

Paid translation might be a good use of some of the contest funds. If the spec / whitepaper can be translated into as many languages as possible and if more importantly the development documentation and concepts can be translated then it will probably catch fire.

This is PR++

Luckybit

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Quote from: vokain on October 28, 2013, 10:02:25 PM

Quote from: JohnnyBTCSeed on October 28, 2013, 09:48:00 PM

So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?

It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...

That is how I see it too vokain. If he sells that is actually good for the protocol. What matters is how he goes about selling it and whether it's dumped all at once or done intelligently over a long enough period.

I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.

If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.

For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.

As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.

vokain

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Quote from: JohnnyBTCSeed on October 28, 2013, 09:48:00 PM

So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?

It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...

JohnnyBTCSeed

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Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 06:59:23 PM

In order to avoid any accusations of giving people insider information on my plans for my own MSC, I'm posting this email between myself and David Johnston (WARNING: the following quote is heavily speculative! I'm NOT offering anyone investment advice - I just don't want to give unfair access to one person about my tentative plans)

Quote

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, David Johnston wrote:

Quote

J.R.

The Mastercoin project is making awesome progress. Its everything I was hoping the project could be.

I'm just curious. Now that you have $4,000,000 in MSC value (just in the first 60 days), how is the convincing of the wife coming along?

Any light on the horizon of her being convinced its something you should spend more of your working hours on?

Thanks for all your work so far and great even handed leadership of the effort.

Talk with you soon.

Best Regards,

David A. Johnston

Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical money

I really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.

I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .

Thanks!

So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?

really

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Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 03:13:43 PM

Anybody interested in helping our chinese friends buy MSC and/or get involved in other ways?

Quote

Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:

The MasterCoin has been very hot topic recently in China.

Please allow me introduce Mr. really Lee to you guys.

Really has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version, he is running a Mastercoin community via QQ group with 65 members now. (Chines skype)

He told me that there are some Chinese are willing to purchase the Mastercoins, but they have no idea how to buy from second market, and they do not know
how to involve in the project development.....

IMHO: That will be great if you guys invite some Chinese into your group/foundation, help promote and protect Mastercoin project in China.

Anything I could be in assistance, please let me.

Any comments?

Cheers,

Bo

My response:

Quote

Hi Lee!

I've posted a copy of this email in our project thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3429668

We're happy to support our Chinese friends getting involved with MasterCoin, although we don't have any websites or services in Chinese yet. That might be a good starting point for someone who wants to get involved, especially if they speak enough English to work with our developers making English sites. Note that someone who creates such a site will probably be eligible for some payment from our coding contest (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.240). The potential Chinese buyers may want to pool their money and choose an English-speaking representative to make the purchase on their behalf on the ad-hoc exchange MaxMint is running (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mastercoin-buyerseller-thread-287145), then distribute the coins purchased to the people who contributed. Otherwise, they can use the distributed exchange when that is ready.

Thanks!

-J.R.

Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:

I am the guy who has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version.With the help of changjia http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7760/a-brief-discussion-on-the-mechanism-design-of-bitcoin/ ,we have made a chinese Mastercoin Special discussion area in 8btc.com http://8btc.com/forum-69-1.html. I think 8btc.com will be a good Media platform of Mastercoin in china.

Miner and I have done some work as the link between the followers of MSC in east and west .I think we will do it better in the future.If we both get a seat in MSC board that will be great.

Tachikoma's big news of the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction,that is amazing! P2P trading platform has been rising now.

Many thanks to Bo Shen.

Cheers,

Really

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 06:59:23 PM

In order to avoid any accusations of giving people insider information on my plans for my own MSC, I'm posting this email between myself and David Johnston...

Such transparency can only help maintain momentum for the Mastercoin project and enthusiasm in those involved.

As the for the project, the potential in leveraging the blockchain for smart property is huge. It is excellent that core dev are supporting OP_RETURN data in the reference client. Who knows where this will lead? Those wondering where the next google or facebook might emerge from should be paying attention to this space.

dacoinminster

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Rational Exuberance

In order to avoid any accusations of giving people insider information on my plans for my own MSC, I'm posting this email between myself and David Johnston (WARNING: the following quote is heavily speculative! I'm NOT offering anyone investment advice - I just don't want to give unfair access to one person about my tentative plans)

Quote

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, David Johnston wrote:

Quote

J.R.

The Mastercoin project is making awesome progress. Its everything I was hoping the project could be.

I'm just curious. Now that you have $4,000,000 in MSC value (just in the first 60 days), how is the convincing of the wife coming along?

Any light on the horizon of her being convinced its something you should spend more of your working hours on?

Thanks for all your work so far and great even handed leadership of the effort.

Talk with you soon.

Best Regards,

David A. Johnston

Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical money

I really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.

I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .

Thanks!

dacoinminster

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Activity: 1260

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Rational Exuberance

Quote from: Luckybit on October 28, 2013, 06:02:21 PM

Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

I sold 10 test Mastercoin to myself for the sum of 0.0001 Bitcoins. Let me explain how this works.

First I created a 'Selling Offer' that announced that I want to sell 10 (Test) MSC for 0.0001 total. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
I used a second Bitcoin address to send an "I accept this Selling Offer" message. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
Once my 'I accept the offer' message was accepted by the blockchain I send the proper amount needed for this transaction. (blockchain)
My new address now owns 10 test Mastercoins.

I added recent distributed transactions to the order book page on mastercoin-explorer.

I achieved all this using the mastercoin-explorer website and Bitcoind, if anybody knows how to deal with the Bitcoin-qt/d console and wants to try this let me know.

As always this is just my implementation of the rules set out by the official spec, this won't be set in stone until the other developers come up with their own implementations and they come to the same conclusion as my libraries. This is quite a difficult Mastercoin message so I expect things to change around a little before everything is final.

We are getting closer Cheesy

This post needs to be copied onto Reddit and then tweeted.

Reddit part: http://www.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/1pf8o5/the_first_distributed_mastercoin_to_bitcoin/

We don't have an official twitter account, but anybody who wants to tweet it should feel free

Tachikoma

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Quote from: superfluouso on October 28, 2013, 05:57:16 PM

Awesome job Tachikoma! This is really exciting!

Can you modify the order book to distinguish test MSC transactions?

Done. Although I don't expect non-test transactions in the near future. A lot of testing will have to be done before we can allow real transactions. There are so many edge cases that need to be tested. Building the initial code is the easy part..

And with that it's time for some sleep.

Luckybit

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Activity: 714

Merit: 510

Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

I sold 10 test Mastercoin to myself for the sum of 0.0001 Bitcoins. Let me explain how this works.

First I created a 'Selling Offer' that announced that I want to sell 10 (Test) MSC for 0.0001 total. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
I used a second Bitcoin address to send an "I accept this Selling Offer" message. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
Once my 'I accept the offer' message was accepted by the blockchain I send the proper amount needed for this transaction. (blockchain)
My new address now owns 10 test Mastercoins.

I added recent distributed transactions to the order book page on mastercoin-explorer.

I achieved all this using the mastercoin-explorer website and Bitcoind, if anybody knows how to deal with the Bitcoin-qt/d console and wants to try this let me know.

As always this is just my implementation of the rules set out by the official spec, this won't be set in stone until the other developers come up with their own implementations and they come to the same conclusion as my libraries. This is quite a difficult Mastercoin message so I expect things to change around a little before everything is final.

We are getting closer Cheesy

This post needs to be copied onto Reddit and then tweeted.

superfluouso

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Merit: 100

Awesome job Tachikoma! This is really exciting!

Can you modify the order book to distinguish test MSC transactions?

StarenseN

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Quote from: Tachikoma on October 28, 2013, 05:33:35 PM

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

I sold 10 test Mastercoin to myself for the sum of 0.0001 Bitcoins. Let me explain how this works.

First I created a 'Selling Offer' that announced that I want to sell 10 (Test) MSC for 0.0001 total. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
I used a second Bitcoin address to send an "I accept this Selling Offer" message. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
Once my 'I accept the offer' message was accepted by the blockchain I send the proper amount needed for this transaction. (blockchain)
My new address now owns 10 test Mastercoins.

I added recent distributed transactions to the order book page on mastercoin-explorer.

I achieved all this using the mastercoin-explorer website and Bitcoind, if anybody knows how to deal with the Bitcoin-qt/d console and wants to try this let me know.

As always this is just my implementation of the rules set out by the official spec, this won't be set in stone until the other developers come up with their own implementations and they come to the same conclusion as my libraries. This is quite a difficult Mastercoin message so I expect things to change around a little before everything is final.

We are getting closer Cheesy

Congrats ! The beginning of a new era... I'm proud to be a witness of that !
You (and any other dev) will deserve the bounty

Tachikoma

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Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done.

I sold 10 test Mastercoin to myself for the sum of 0.0001 Bitcoins. Let me explain how this works.

First I created a 'Selling Offer' that announced that I want to sell 10 (Test) MSC for 0.0001 total. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
I used a second Bitcoin address to send an "I accept this Selling Offer" message. (mastercoin-explorer || blockchain)
Once my 'I accept the offer' message was accepted by the blockchain I send the proper amount needed for this transaction. (blockchain)
My new address now owns 10 test Mastercoins.

I added recent distributed transactions to the order book page on mastercoin-explorer.

I achieved all this using the mastercoin-explorer website and Bitcoind, if anybody knows how to deal with the Bitcoin-qt/d console and wants to try this let me know.

As always this is just my implementation of the rules set out by the official spec, this won't be set in stone until the other developers come up with their own implementations and they come to the same conclusion as my libraries. This is quite a difficult Mastercoin message so I expect things to change around a little before everything is final.

We are getting closer Cheesy

Luckybit

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Activity: 714

Merit: 510

An interesting set of quotes from Coinbase relevant to Mastercoin.
http://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-gmail-bitcoin/

Quote

These services, such as more intuitive payment systems, credit services, stock exchanges, and smart property, are what will give bitcoin more traction among mainstream users who would run a mile from a public bitcoin key.

Coinbase isn’t building most of them – but it is focusing on making a superset of services as simple as possible.

hl5460

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news.8btc.com

Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 03:13:43 PM

Anybody interested in helping our chinese friends buy MSC and/or get involved in other ways?

Quote

Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:

The MasterCoin has been very hot topic recently in China.

Please allow me introduce Mr. really Lee to you guys.

Really has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version, he is running a Mastercoin community via QQ group with 65 members now. (Chines skype)

He told me that there are some Chinese are willing to purchase the Mastercoins, but they have no idea how to buy from second market, and they do not know
how to involve in the project development.....

IMHO: That will be great if you guys invite some Chinese into your group/foundation, help promote and protect Mastercoin project in China.

Anything I could be in assistance, please let me.

Any comments?

Cheers,

Bo

My response:

Quote

Hi Lee!

I've posted a copy of this email in our project thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3429668

We're happy to support our Chinese friends getting involved with MasterCoin, although we don't have any websites or services in Chinese yet. That might be a good starting point for someone who wants to get involved, especially if they speak enough English to work with our developers making English sites. Note that someone who creates such a site will probably be eligible for some payment from our coding contest (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.240). The potential Chinese buyers may want to pool their money and choose an English-speaking representative to make the purchase on their behalf on the ad-hoc exchange MaxMint is running (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mastercoin-buyerseller-thread-287145), then distribute the coins purchased to the people who contributed. Otherwise, they can use the distributed exchange when that is ready.

Thanks!

-J.R.

Hi JR.
I think I can help with the Chinese translation and also applying for a seat in MSC board. I have been tracking the progress of MSC since I staked some btc for the project. I think I am the first to translate the MSC project into Chinese.
http://8btc.com/thread-609-1-1.html
I am the mods of several leading Chinese forums.
http://8btc.com/forum-69-1.html
BTW, the 8btc is manifesting its influence by publishing the 1st articles from Chinese community on bitcoinmagazine:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7760/a-brief-discussion-on-the-mechanism-design-of-bitcoin/
We hope to establish better communication between the west and the east.
Miner is my Chinese forum id. I use same avatar here.
Cheers,
Red

Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 88. (Read 448462 times)