Merit & new rank requirements - page 217.

marlboroza

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 2272

I did some research last couple of days.

What I noticed so far is large number of accounts which are ~~posting~~ farming as usual and then all of sudden they post very constructive post just to receive merit, often paraphrasing articles and/or just copying articles here.

On the other hand, it is not really hard to post 50 short lines in off topic or games and rounds and after that to post 10 high quality posts at right place and point them to right people.
I don't think current system will decrease number of farming accounts, spam or account sales and honestly I think 10 merits to rank up to member rank is too low, because people will just create hundred accounts, do exactly what I said above and abuse signature/bounty campaigns, giveaways etc.

For every 10 Smerits received, junior member can easily send 5 Smerits to other account, from that account 2 Smerit to third account and so on - and repeat with many accounts.

So, in my honest opinion this system need little improvement:

Rank	Required activity	Required merit
Jr Member	30	0
Member	60	50
Full Member	120	150
Sr. Member	240	300
Hero Member	480	550
Legendary	Random in the range 775-1030	1050

Raising merit requirement by 50 points will make difference and should solve most "merit" issues, account farming, account sales etc(or at least make them so hard that people will give up doing it) and won't affect on number of merits required for full-hero member to rank up because older users will need the same amount of Smerit to rank up(members will need 100 SMP*, full members 150 SMP, senior member 250 SMP and hero 500 SMP) and it will actually force "new users" to write better posts from first day, which isn't the case at the moment.

However, number of Smerits given to all members should remain the same as it is now, but i guess this is irrelevant because we all already received smerits.

*SMP - sMerit points

Magister Magus

member

Activity: 328

Merit: 39

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy in this thread, and I'm glad that someone says how things really are.
As I wrote in a precedent post, I'm starting to appreciate the intention behind the system, I received also some merits so - even it's hard - it doesn't appear as impossible as at the beginning.
What I found very disturbing was the bad attitude of some high rank members, that treated the rest of us with arrogance, without to see that a lot of them were just lucky shitposters and - if they were evaluated with this new system - they were still newbies. Of course, this is just a rough generalization.

Btw: it's evident that if a system rewards people for writing shit, the system will be filled soon by shitposters!
The revenue from a campaign can appear ridiculous to an average guy in USA of Europe, but for someone in other parts of the world are very big sums.
I understand that the forum must be protected, and something must be done, but when I see some "stars" of the forum talking about "3rd world monkeys" or "3rd world cancer", I think this has nothing to do with the improvement of the forum but only reveals a racist and Nazi mentality.
I'm not from 3rd world, but I think that everyone on the planet deserves respect, and actually I think that the "15 year old kid from Bangladesh" trying to make a buck on the forum should be rewarded for his good will, not insulted.
Of course, a million of 15 years old kids writing on the forum would be a tsunami, so we needed measures.

The new system is not perfect, but I was very glad to see that theymos is open to suggestions.
It's very simple to blame. I'd like to have good proposal but sincerely I don't have any, for the moment.
But I'm working on it! We'll see :-)

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 04, 2018, 10:11:26 AM

The last few pages of this thread actually show your position on the earth as it turns in relation to the sun.

The non-English speaking forum members wake up and attempt to speak out about what they see as a problem in the only way they can (using a translator). You English speaking posters need to calm down and realize the local subs don’t each have their own Meta section fully translated in a language they speak fluently. They need to voice their concerns here in English.

Theymos made me think hard about why some of these people are here. Many of them probably are impoverished and see the little amounts of money they can make here as a gold mine. It’s true that this forum is not a substitute worldwide welfare system and many of them will need to go away but we don’t need to treat them like shit in the meantime. Save that for the very fluent scammers and conmen stealing from people here. You can say anything you want to someone like Bryan Micon or Josh Zerlan and be justified. Talking shit to a 15 year old kid from Bangladesh probably isn’t the best thing you could be spending your time on.

petuhov

newbie

Activity: 122

Merit: 0

Quote from: Fondago on February 04, 2018, 10:21:03 AM

I'm most impressed with those people who shout at others who are lower in rank, but they are here for bounty and freebies too. At the same time, they themselves run around with avatars and signatures.
How are you doing, dear arrogance? These people reached out to the rank they received, without effort, spamming messages, and now they have the courage and impudence "to drive on" other bountists.

They are rewarded for being here for long time and nothing wrong with that. With time, you will also rank up.

Fondago

jr. member

Activity: 84

Merit: 6

I'm most impressed with those people who shout at others who are lower in rank, but they are here for bounty and freebies too. At the same time, they themselves run around with avatars and signatures.
How are you doing, dear arrogance? These people reached out to the rank they received, without effort, spamming messages, and now they have the courage and impudence "to drive on" other bountists.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

The last few pages of this thread actually show your position on the earth as it turns in relation to the sun.

The non-English speaking forum members wake up and attempt to speak out about what they see as a problem in the only way they can (using a translator). You English speaking posters need to calm down and realize the local subs don’t each have their own Meta section fully translated in a language they speak fluently. They need to voice their concerns here in English.

Theymos made me think hard about why some of these people are here. Many of them probably are impoverished and see the little amounts of money they can make here as a gold mine. It’s true that this forum is not a substitute worldwide welfare system and many of them will need to go away but we don’t need to treat them like shit in the meantime. Save that for the very fluent scammers and conmen stealing from people here. You can say anything you want to someone like Bryan Micon or Josh Zerlan and be justified. Talking shit to a 15 year old kid from Bangladesh probably isn’t the best thing you could be spending your time on.

fedorover

jr. member

Activity: 39

Merit: 1

❐ Zeex ❐ NO FIAT, NO FEES.

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on February 04, 2018, 07:57:43 AM

There is hardly any forum which can beat the bitcointalk in all aspects. We should always keep in mind that this forum was started by the Satoshi and hence there could not be any alternative.

Sorry I do not agree with this point given you. I appreciate the work being done by staff on this forum. But if you think that this forum will remain number one just because it was started by Satoshi, it is not practical. One has to keep up with the changing trends. For instance, at the time of starting the forum, he might not be expecting sections like alt coins here.

Semosuchi Tesongrato

member

Activity: 546

Merit: 33

Rasputin Party Mansion

I agree with this approach.
I admit that I was very upset at the beginning, as I was just near to become Member, and now I have to earn it in hard way.
But now I start to see the positive intention, I just received two merits, and this means that it's not impossible.
But the system needs some modifications: now I have earned two merits, and I have one to give away. I'd like to give one to this post, but then I'll have zero. I'll think about it. But with a so limited number it's difficult to take a decision.

I hope there will be improvement, but I have to admit that the system works: if I look at my first posts, I'm ashamed of them. They were really bad. Sorry.
Now, I don't make masterworks, but I put a lot more attention, and I think twice before to write something, and my motivation in writing something decent is higher.

If we stop complaining and we start to give a contribution, the system will have a very positive impact on the quality of the forum.

Quote from: Magister Magus on February 03, 2018, 03:02:33 PM

As other members already stated, this is a private forum, so the owner has any right to do what he thinks is the best move to improve his property.
It doesn't make any sense to complain about any aspect we don't like; much better to be grateful for the opportunity we have to learn a lot and - eventually - to have a little extra income from campaigns.

So, not with the intention to complain, but just to offer some ideas, here are my two cents: the intention behind the merit system is very good, and I think that only spammers and shitposters don't agree. What I find inefficient - and probably more of the "complainers" agree with me - are mainly these two aspect:

1) the system is really too unbalanced in favor of old members. I understand that I have to earn my position, and I agree that only "good members" will rank up. But if I read the old posts of a lot of high rank members, I find a lot of shitpost, and I just wonder why "they" had this privilege by luck in the meanwhile I have to work hard for the same results. I agree, life is unfair, but this aspect is very disturbing.

2) the merits are too scarce. I had ONE. Now I have THREE. Really, a so little number make me anxious to give them. Even if I like a post. I think it's the same for other low rank members. The result is that may be I write a masterwork (I'd like...) but nobody has merit to give to me.
The only members with a lot of merits to give are Legendaries (another privilege..), but it seems that they prefer to reward each other, may be just to show friendship. I'm pretty sure you did some math projections, but in this way the system it's really too rigid. Of course, may be I'm wrong. We'll see.

But please accept the idea that - even if the meirt system is a good point to start - there is a lot of space for improvement.

Quote from: theymos on February 03, 2018, 01:20:54 PM

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.

Merit awards may be too spotty/uneven currently, though it's still too early to say. In addition to continuously adding more sources, if things could still use improvement in this regard in a couple of months, I may do something like decay old sMerit and unused source merit and randomly redistribute the decayed merit. How the random distribution would work would magnify past merit -- so perhaps you would get an increased chance of winning extra merit for every post you've made which has at least 1 merit, but certainly you would not get any extra merit if none of your posts was ever merited.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.

I think that actmyname has been too hasty with some of his negatives, but I haven't had time to look carefully enough into it to justify making forceful changes. I did exclude actmyname from my trust list, so another DT1 could remove him from the default trust network by doing the same.

Zackgeno96

hero member

Activity: 1778

Merit: 520

Quote from: pugman on February 04, 2018, 05:47:49 AM

OH really? And you will have signature campaigns in that forum too?

Haha. No other forum can provide such a huge platform and audience for the new projects, so the signature campaigns will be useless on other forums.

Quote from: pugman on February 04, 2018, 05:47:49 AM

There is resistance but it all seems to be one immature dumbass behind this shit. Good luck with finding an alternative to this forum.

There is hardly any forum which can beat the bitcointalk in all aspects. We should always keep in mind that this forum was started by the Satoshi and hence there could not be any alternative.

shailkumari

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 12

Quote from: sohel436290 on February 04, 2018, 12:43:45 AM

Yes, dear cyber_smiley sir, I am 100% agree with you, new people like me my rank up stopped for the region of merit my Activity: 70 but till now my Position: Jr. Member, I Alrdaey Check it some people are joined 6 months ago for example a full member there get Merit: 100 by automatically without the quality and meaningful post. I like the Merit system but It's Could have been better.

I am sure you had seen similar posts by other members as well regarding the flaws in the current merit system. In my opinion, there will always be some flaws. As an admin, he has to make a balance between what is good for the forum and what is good for members. New members suffered but we have to deal with it. It is not that hard to reach the member rank at least in my opinion.

fokinlipat

jr. member

Activity: 187

Merit: 2

Quote from: pugman on February 04, 2018, 05:47:49 AM

OH really? And you will have signature campaigns in that forum too? Great. It's about time dumbfucks like you get the hell out of this forum, for you are not contributing anything. If trust system is unfair, theymos won't keep his hands off. There is resistance but it all seems to be one immature dumbass behind this shit. Good luck with finding an alternative to this forum.

Completely agree with you. I think it takes a lot of guts to take such a harsh decision being a forum admin. Very few forums would be in a position to do this.

pugman

legendary

Activity: 2383

Merit: 1551

dogs are cute.

Quote from: Deena on February 04, 2018, 05:35:56 AM

Quote from: Chinese909 on February 04, 2018, 02:05:08 AM

I think this is the best the decision you could take by removing abuser in your trust list, and i think you should ask Blazed to stop recruiting racist and abuser in his trust list. Noone of those abusers fignt realy againts spammers all they want its money,power to destroy user accounts. Its time to leave the trust system in the hand of moderators instead of all those bad guys.

That's right. There's a growing resistance against these trust system abusers as more and more members are experiencing and seeing their unjust, devious actions. This forum needs only one good, fair alternative and we'll see a massive migration to that other forum.

OH really? And you will have signature campaigns in that forum too? Great. It's about time dumbfucks like you get the hell out of this forum, for you are not contributing anything. If trust system is unfair, theymos won't keep his hands off. There is resistance but it all seems to be one immature dumbass behind this shit. Good luck with finding an alternative to this forum.

Quote from: theymos on February 03, 2018, 01:20:54 PM

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system

I am just enjoying this new authoritarian attitude by theymos. Cheesy

Deena

member

Activity: 238

Merit: 49

Quote from: Chinese909 on February 04, 2018, 02:05:08 AM

I think this is the best the decision you could take by removing abuser in your trust list, and i think you should ask Blazed to stop recruiting racist and abuser in his trust list. Noone of those abusers fignt realy againts spammers all they want its money,power to destroy user accounts. Its time to leave the trust system in the hand of moderators instead of all those bad guys.

That's right. There's a growing resistance against these trust system abusers as more and more members are experiencing and seeing their unjust, devious actions. This forum needs only one good, fair alternative and we'll see a massive migration to that other forum.

kiver

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: ducdr ldate=1517724155

Quote from: sohel43

[/quote

English broken. I almost cannot understand your ideas. Account likes yours should not be ranked up. It is likely that before merit system implemented, you constantly posted shitty posts, after that point, you tried to posting longer ones with broken English. I guess, might be from Google translator).
You should improve yourself first, be better, more contributive before writing any complaints.
If you and other users (whose accounts continue to post shitty, non-sense, spamming threads), Theymos might go to his last, final decision :Removing campaigns, airdrops, bounties industry forever out of the forum. If that is what you want, let continue to write your shitty posts.

Good luck.

That comment toke my attention, iam sorry for what iam about to say but stopping signature and annoucements...
etc are not the soluation at all and it will have a nigative effect on the forum if all of this should stop what will be the point of bitcointalk.org excatly? Someone should really answer this question i know a lot of useless topics are being spammed i know a lot of shitposts is being created
But i wanna tell you something when some bad news happens around crypto world where i go first to check the truth bitcointalk there is alot of soluation that could help this problem i will point out some
1_ merit system was a Good idea but still need some improvment
2_ increase the number of moderators on the forum might help to stop the spam train
3_ making some New mandotory rules for topics creating which wont affect the freedom of speach of course
4_ making another section about bitcoin alts news that we share our opinions ideas with a free will and wont affect the forum hoensty
I am sure that the geniuses who invented bitcoin revolution 10 years ago would be creative and think of another way that could help the increasing interest in crypto world not by stopping it all, but by nature it educate the newcomers and try to help them understand what we want out of crypto currencies

nullius

copper member

Activity: 630

Merit: 2614

If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!

Quote from: JayJuanGee on February 04, 2018, 02:15:43 AM

Quote from: Chinese909 on February 04, 2018, 02:05:08 AM

I think this is the best the decision you could take by removing abuser in your trust list, and i think you should ask Blazed to stop recruiting racist and abuser in his trust list. Noone of those abusers fignt realy againts spammers all they want its money,power to destroy user accounts. Its time to leave the trust system in the hand of moderators instead of all those bad guys.

How come you are so smart as a newbie in terms of knowing which members are problematic? Furthermore, why do you think that it is a good idea to bold your whole statement? Why do you feel that your ideas are so important, as a newbie?

Oh, snap. I hope that people with requisite information access are paying attention. Due to the boldface, I mean. The boldface is very impressive, especially when it is turned trust-negative red in colour.

[Edit: Check post history. Interesting.]

By the way, my respect for actmyname increases substantially with each new post of this kind. They show that he was right on-target. I hope that Blazed does the right thing, and keeps him in DT2.

d5000

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 6249

Decentralization Maximalist

Quote from: mrelich on February 03, 2018, 06:47:16 PM

However, they are profiting from their Avatars and signatures - they are getting more stakes in signature campaigns, because they have higher ranks. If they give their sMerits to lower rank users, then more users became Full/Hero/Legendary and they won't get so much profit from their stakes in signature campaigns. So that might prevent some of them giving sMerit to anyone. I hope most of Full/Hero/Legendary users don't think like that and I am not sure what is a solution if they do .. what do you think?

I don't think many veteran, high-ranked members that really love Bitcoin and this forum think that way, honestly.

And it would be a bit stupid and short-sighted, too: Quality content benefits the forum as a whole. I assume it is still the primary content source for Bitcoin-related stuff. If the forum continues to attract people coming from search engines, with good content, then its users will stay important targets for advertisers that could run bounty campaigns. So even for those whose primary goal here is to earn money by chasing bounties, the forum posessing quality content is important.

Now if old, high-ranked members don't incentive quality content from newer members giving them no merit, then the forum will most likely have lesser good authors, and thus less quality content. It could become a sort of Ivory Tower (no relation with the sub-forum intended), the user base will eventually decrease, and it will lose importance (Facebook and Twitter communities are already strong competitors.) Bounty campaigns will be less attractive for cryptocurrency businesses. So in the mid- to long term these high-ranked users that don't want to share merits would bite the hands that are feeding them.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 11105

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Chinese909 on February 04, 2018, 02:05:08 AM

Quote from: theymos on February 03, 2018, 01:20:54 PM

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.

Merit awards may be too spotty/uneven currently, though it's still too early to say. In addition to continuously adding more sources, if things could still use improvement in this regard in a couple of months, I may do something like decay old sMerit and unused source merit and randomly redistribute the decayed merit. How the random distribution would work would magnify past merit -- so perhaps you would get an increased chance of winning extra merit for every post you've made which has at least 1 merit, but certainly you would not get any extra merit if none of your posts was ever merited.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.

I think that actmyname has been too hasty with some of his negatives, but I haven't had time to look carefully enough into it to justify making forceful changes. I did exclude actmyname from my trust list, so another DT1 could remove him from the default trust network by doing the same.

I think this is the best the decision you could take by removing abuser in your trust list, and i think you should ask Blazed to stop recruiting racist and abuser in his trust list. Noone of those abusers fignt realy againts spammers all they want its money,power to destroy user accounts. Its time to leave the trust system in the hand of moderators instead of all those bad guys.

How come you are so smart as a newbie in terms of knowing which members are problematic? Furthermore, why do you think that it is a good idea to bold your whole statement? Why do you feel that your ideas are so important, as a newbie?

kovalevg

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

Quote from: bizbwan on February 04, 2018, 02:01:13 AM

The system looks good but can be abused by people who has multiple accounts. It can also be a target of money making scheme, some would ask money for merit. but maybe this is studied well before implementing.

Such people are already being spotted as they are giving merits for shit posts. I think it actually helps in finding multiple accounts.

Chinese909

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 2

Quote from: theymos on February 03, 2018, 01:20:54 PM

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.

Merit awards may be too spotty/uneven currently, though it's still too early to say. In addition to continuously adding more sources, if things could still use improvement in this regard in a couple of months, I may do something like decay old sMerit and unused source merit and randomly redistribute the decayed merit. How the random distribution would work would magnify past merit -- so perhaps you would get an increased chance of winning extra merit for every post you've made which has at least 1 merit, but certainly you would not get any extra merit if none of your posts was ever merited.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.

I think that actmyname has been too hasty with some of his negatives, but I haven't had time to look carefully enough into it to justify making forceful changes. I did exclude actmyname from my trust list, so another DT1 could remove him from the default trust network by doing the same.

I think this is the best the decision you could take by removing abuser in your trust list, and i think you should ask Blazed to stop recruiting racist and abuser in his trust list. Noone of those abusers fignt realy againts spammers all they want its money,power to destroy user accounts. Its time to leave the trust system in the hand of moderators instead of all those bad guys.

bizbwan

newbie

Activity: 38

Merit: 0

The system looks good but can be abused by people who has multiple accounts. It can also be a target of money making scheme, some would ask money for merit. but maybe this is studied well before implementing.

tekusa

jr. member

Activity: 56

Merit: 2

Quote from: sohel436290 on February 04, 2018, 12:43:45 AM

Yes, dear cyber_smiley sir, I am 100% agree with you, new people like me my rank up stopped for the region of merit my Activity: 70 but till now my Position: Jr. Member, I Alrdaey Check it some people are joined 6 months ago for example a full member there get Merit: 100 by automatically without the quality and meaningful post. I like the Merit system but It's Could have been better.

Do not worry about that. I think signature campaigns in future will require earned merits from participants in future.

Topic: Merit & new rank requirements - page 217. (Read 167726 times)