Topic: Merit system= Rubbish posts - page 2. (Read 1197 times)

Yes, thats my words, there are people who dont care about merit and will get stuck on junior member for the whole life. If they are banned for spam - they will create a new account.

Don't tell me this forum is like a government, I have already appointed myself as the lawmaker, I have been proposing major policy changes. no government can survive without the tax money. people say that forum has money. it's just not for spending.

It can't live on with trust system and merit system. it needs money. people say that if you are going to charge members with money, what you will have to charge them with, is what they need to survive. for how long this forum could support starving people for free? they wouldn't stop farming accounts and posting garbage. they are not paying any tax. I would love to stop repeating myself. if there was any better solution other than taxing people.

Konami should close it's toilets doors to the public because people are moving in to live nearby just to use Konami's resources. their excuse? a man has got to shit right? in forum, a man is shitting like 10 people. merit is going to force them out. don't expect any good result after 3 months.

I must disagree with that notion: Bitcointalk don't hire people for the bounty campaigns - the new emerging companies do that. And that's the problem: in the real life Konami can choose among thousands available and jobless cleaning ladies, pick few of them for the job, and if they lie around whole day doing nothing they can fire them and employ others that will do the job properly. But consider the following situation: there are only 100 cleaning ladies on the market and we have 1000 new companies that need their toilets cleaned? The best companies took the best workers, and coders in the other companies can not piss or shit at work, because they faint every time they approach the toilet. In that situation these companies have to do what they can in order to survive and continue with their business: Konami has to approach a garbage man, a housewife or a mason, to offer them lots of money and to hope for the best.
Of course it's not me who invented that, it's called the labor market theory  . So it's very important (and natural) to have big supply of laborers (of the different quality levels) when the demand for them is high. You shouldn't think of the Bitcointalk as an employer, but as a government. ICO projects are employers and they will take what they need from the labor market in order to satisfy their needs. That's why I'm talking about "stumbling" or "dying" - if they don't have enough labor for their marketing efforts, they will not succeed, and that's bad because of the reasons I've mentioned in the previous posts.

And now about the greatest mistake of it all when it comes to the survival and the development of the blockchain technology - and I see that many of the senior members here are repeating almost the same words as a kind of a mantra, over and over again. I don't want to sound like a grumbling old professor, but I'm in love with this stuff, and I wouldn't like to see it ruined because of this naive incorrect assesment, and not to try everything that is in my power to prevent this. So, that romantic mantra sounds more or less like this:


If you give me one example of a revolution that took place and had success without people, I'll send 1 BTC to your address . The whole trick with economy - and first of all with currencies - is something that is called "acceptance". It's a kind of a chanted circle: if more people accept something, more people will accept the same thing.
If I have pockets full of CNY and walk into a grocery store in Berlin I wouldn't be able to buy anything, because the owner of that store recognize no value in these paper bills: he can't take these bills and buy theater tickets for him and his wife because he knows that the lady at the box office won't accepted these bills for the same reason he didn't do that in the first place - she won't be able to buy groceries for CNY in his store. People in Berlin work for Euros, there are lots of them and all of the stores there accept them.

One of the things Bitcoin misses today is precisely that: people don't have faith (yet) that other people will accept it.

How do you cure that? If the owner of the grocery store every day faces people who come into his store trying to buy something for Bitcoins, talking about the other grocery stores where they could by products for Bitcoins, if he hears that his neighbor bought the theater tickets for Bitcoins, and his best friend payed for his vacation in Bitcoins, he will try once to sell groceries for Bitcoins - just to test how it goes. But, if enough people don't walk into his grocery stores with Bitcoins, and his neighbor doesn't have them, believe me, there will be no revolution.

So you have to supply people with Bitcoins and make a pressure on the poor grocery owner. Or even supply him. How do you do that?

Bitcoin is much like gold - you can invest your own work (which will pay for the equipment and for the electricity) and mine it. But cleaning lady who needs bread and milk can't earn enough to buy equipment and pay enormous electricity bills in Berlin. She doesn't have chance to make pressure on the grocery owner. But, that's what labor market is for! She can earn crypto. The more people have it, more people will accept it (again - it wasn't me, it's an old theory, proved to be right many, many times). That's why you, me and the makers of this forum need people more than they need us, actually. They can continue to work for Euros, US Dollars, or any other government controlled currency and f.ck off the whole revolution story - it's much easier. And nothing will happen then.


You're not able to find any quality discussion on this forum? Than I must be blind and very stupid.


It has to be able to support at least billions, or nothing will happen (but I'm sure you already know that).


Well, there's no help with that, that's called "industry" If their ICO employers are satisfied why that bothers you? But if you look at it more carefully, you will see that Apple alone (and several other companies) has larger Market capitalization than the whole blockchain industry, and that's why I think that this moment is a tricky one to apply some drastic measures. I believe some new forums and platforms for the labor force will soon emerge, and you'll be finally left alone - but is it a good thing?

I agree. But it has to be a way other than suffocating the whole thing and maintaining the satus quo. The forum creators must find a way to control the quality of the labor force which will not scare them off. Maybe they can start a competition for the community to find the best solution(s). I believe that the coders from the community can help with some "linguistic crawler" that can detect low quality posts and give them some kind of bad "marks", there must be a way to control IP addresses and at least partially prevent account farming, I believe many members of the community have access to various AI technologies that can be used for that purpose. After all I think all of the seniors will be glad to help with the moderation. Every solution is better than repression.

Let's talk about habit. In order to change someone, particularly spammers, they have to do the following steps orderly.
Improving Knowledge, Changing Attitude, Keep Practicing continuously.
Knowledge, Attitude, and Practice.

Learn more knowledge to have deeper understanding about the forum, the crypto ecosystem, the blockchain technology; Changing attitude (merit system, which main objectives to join bitcointalk forum - money or knowledge, discussions, etc.); Praticing (keep trying to compose higher quality threads and topics over time).

Follow those steps, keep doing regularly; merits will come naturally.

Good luck.

What if Konami hires 10 of these little and unimportant fellas to clean their toilets but only one of them did the cleaning while the rest of them made more mess? they are doing that in this forum. one person would register 20-40 accounts and starts to post garbage. would you endorse 2000 people shitting in Konami's toilets and even get paid a salary and Konami's coders and real employers would have to waste their time to find a place to work on their great games?


If theymos wont do it, I will. I am begging those people to leave and let this revolution to have a chance in development. every time I go to Bitcoin section, I can only see generic and garbage topics with hundreds of garbage replies. I'm a nobody but if I'm not finding any fine quality discussions, I would be forced to leave this forum. what this forum does for me and people like me is what I really need if I'm going to help the movement of decentralization of currency.


How many people do you think crypto can support?


It has spread, news about earning money to the wrong people. while the work force is busy doing something nobody wants, all the coders are self entitled to launching ICOs and sell something every other coder could develop. there are even some of the Konami's plumbers impersonating coders and selling Konami's games as their own, people only see Konami's name and would buy them.


Crypto industry is an industry because of this forum and it's founder and then administration keeping it alive for years. this industry has been sucking the life out of this forum. admins are trying to keep it that way, they would rather slow down it's growth and keep it free. 2 admins are not enough for 2 Million registered forum accounts. 20 new moderators are needed for this forum but the policy to keep it free doesn't allow them to keep it free and let it grow.


I was an ignorant when I came here, they were the same to me as they are now to newbies. they have trust issues. I'm a low(life) skilled member and I'm not trusted after 2 years of expressing my generic opinions. lol.

It's already been done and we already use it, you know the one

But I would much prefer to see this site kept up.

I would also love to see key people on here more receptive to constructive criticism to make things better

The topic author simply started this one for complaining, crying, trying to discuss for non-sense. Non-sense because this topic is for nothing. Merit has been here, to help all of us, to help the forum, to help wipe spammers (like this guy) out, to make this place become cleaner, better one for all of us.

Agree with this point.

Generally, I don't think you give your recommendations at the right place, for the right guy. This topic don't need such recommendations. So I consider your threads like off-topic ones. (Hate to say this, but it really is).

Merit system is a value to appreciate the quality of a post, so to get a merit then someone should do a quality post and have a good value, I think merit system is not rubbish posts, because I see a lot of quality posts and spread the diverse knowledge in the forum bitcointalk.org especially for beginners like me, many posts that give me more insight into bitcoin.

Spammers have to adapt to and rank up with merit system. To do this, they have to improve themselves to be more constructive over time. If they do it, they actually contribute to the general quality of the forum. It is good for all members in the forum. For some spammers who don't change, don't contribute anything after the launch of day of merit syste,m. It's good too, they can keep spamming and stuck at their current ranks forever.
They can exchange merits to rank up, but using that way, they will be banned permanently sooner or later.

Its slowly reducing a bit. We could see lot many quality posts being contributed now and it became a habit now. Shit posting has been reduced with the help of this new merit system. Long way to go. A wonderful step has been taken. Though there are alts giving merits to one another, we have accounts which really need merits and we need to look at meriting them.

At times we all feel overwhelmed at the forum in front of some shitposting threads which never stop and even forum administration does not do anything to auto-lock threads after "x" number of replies. Also the OPs being shitposters themselves never lock the threads even after getting an answer because they want shitposting.

In real world some people have authority. Not so in the internet.

Or should we say forum administration is having their hands full already?

Why dont you create a new forum?

I am surprised that people who are running this kind of forum couldn't come up with a more sophisticated system.

This system is random and childish at best. For me, it looks like a way to preserve power for the people on the top, because now no one can reach them because it is next to impossible to get merits if you don't know someone who has lots of sMerits.

The effort is not invested in the ways how to help newcomers. The merits are just the way to slow the progress of the savage postings, nothing else. That's how much people who invented care about the people on forum and quality of posting.

People on the top of this forum are clever for sure, if they really want to make a better system they just need to think for a few hours. But they obviously don't care. Fools day was more important than the real working system.

The answer to your question: no, I woudn't (plain and simple ). But that rises another more complex question: Would you endorse people who know how to code to clean offices, corridors and shit from the toilets in Konami? Would you endorse them to set up the network in the offices, repair computer equipment, electric system and chairs? Would you endorse them to make commercials for Konami, catchy slogans, marketing plans, will coders be the one who will pack boxes into trucks, deliver them to the shops, sell game DVDs, represent the company at courts? You think about that, because without these "little" and "unimportant" people, Konami would never be able to make and sell 1 bloody game . There were little garage companies which functioned like that, but they've never succeeded to grow big, and now you can't even remember their names (I know quite a few of them: Corrosion, Tranxgames, etc.) It's romantic, it's beautiful, but they always eventually die, because - there's no money in romance (sad but true).

And that money thing brings me to your second question, which is even more important:
Absolutely not, and I can give you the theoretical and practical proofs to support that. Why would they? They convert Bitcoins in fiat, because they do buy what they need - you said. And that's the whole trick! THEY BUY WHAT THEY NEED. That's what money's for. They can not yet buy what they need with BTC, but what do you think will happen when they get that chance? How would they think and act in the situation in which it will be cheaper and more convenient for them to buy bread, milk, clothes, books and everything for BTC, instead to convert it to fiat, pay bloodsucking bank fees, taxes and God knows what kind of other concoction that governments can think of. So, the whole trick is to grow big enough - they don't care now, because USD is more convenient as a universal means of exchange, but it won't last forever. They will learn to care, but in order to do that they have to be there and use it.

I don't know Theymos, but I can not stress enough to you (and especially to him) how important it is not to frighten away this still fragile and by no means perfect community. There will be times for drastic measures, but this moment is still premature, the crypto market is still young, cheap and controllable, we all should gather people, new people, rich or poor, educated or simple, not scare them and silence them. I beg you, or anyone who knows Theymos well, to talk to him. The system has to be easier (a bit, not much, just to give some hope to the growing community) for the plumbers and cleaning ladies to earn crypto. If they don't have crypto, they will never start to use it and learn to love it. The system should work in such a manner that they can see people around them advancing in ranks, not being stuck forever. There are other ways, he can lower the crossbar a bit, engage more community members to control posts, control IP addresses for cheaters (who are the part of every system big enough - that's why you have the police ) or anything else that will result in people advancing in levels. There's no industry without making money, there's no company without employees who hope to advance and who feel themselves part of the whole thing  - it's the simple human logic. Please, be extremely careful.  

When I read this, I feel like there is a sense of being overwhelmed.

Like you are getting out-numbered by shitposters.

And now it's impossible not to equate that to the real world.

But this isn't the real world, it is forum software.   Very, very old forum software that doesn't do basic things like recognize spammers on registration.

Why not update it?

Two things:

1)  If only everyone wrote like you, there wouldn't be such a problem with post quality.  What I'm fighting are people who post absolute nonsense over and over because they are incentivized to do so by signature campaigns.  They are not qualified to take on a writing job, plain and simple.  Ultimately this is a discussion forum, whatever your thoughts about bitcoin are.  If people are actually going to be given the opportunity to make money by posting, there are (and have to be) minimum standards for quality.  There is a large contingent of members who cannot form proper sentences and who keep repeating the same nonsense repeatedly.  They do not belong here.

2)  Do you really think any of these shitposters care about bitcoin?  Absolutely not!  Do you know how many times I've read "bitcoin is a job, I join bitcoin because we can get profit..."?  That's the continuing mantra of these people, and all bitcoin is to them is a way to earn more fiat.  I have no proof of this, so don't ask me, but I am firmly convinced of this.  To them, bitcoin IS bitcointalk, and my guess is that they just convert btc-->fiat and buy what they need.  They could care less about any other aspect of bitcoin and most know nothing about it.  

So if your argument is that sig campaigns stimulate bitcoiners, I'd have to disagree, but the main point is about this forum and not about bitcoin and how these people are to its community.  You might as well argue that scammers are an important part of the bitcoin economy.  

One question:  Would you endorse people who don't know how to program anything and can only write rudimentary code to get jobs at Konami or Square Enix making video games?  They should be allowed to make games, right?  Konami would be discriminating against them if they weren't hired, right?  Think about it.  It's the same question a lot of us have asked here, and it's what these shitposters don't seem to ever grasp.

Roger that.  The only other option is to give in, but I'm not about to do so.

Agreed, it's starting to look more than a little silly.    Of course it's not an easy problem to solve, maybe what you need (other than a software upgrade) is the human touch.

Bitcointalk "masternode" admins, if you will.   


Make a lower level of admin that has time to clean up all the messes and is motivated to do so.       When bitcointalk was at its finest, it's because of the incredible activity and effort from the admins.   Now crypto has grown 100x larger, but same number of admins.   That's the problem.

And that's where I think you're wrong. This forum is much more than "a forum" - it's a place where people can work for crypto currencies. You don't have that opportunity on other forums - this is the place. I guess you guys maybe didn't want that to happen, but it happened - and, don't get me wrong, it's a good thing. I'll explain what I mean by that.

Just remember the "good old times" when Bitcoin was worth 1 USD, and the power consumption has far exceeded any logical an economic reason to mine. Wasn't you thinking then: "This is a good thing, if people can only understand! If we can only convince people that this is future, if only people start to use this technology, their life will be easier, they'll be making money, they'll be pissing on governments and banks and accountants. This will be the future if they can only make a little mental effort and understand the greatness of this, and start participating!"
And they did.

Bitcointalk is not a job, you're right, but it's the place where people can find a job. And because they could do that, the word of crypto industry has spread, other people did find out about a whole new industry that needs free work force for its growth, work force that will not work for money, but for some "money wannabee", some new strange currencies and the promises they offer. And they tried. When they have earned money, they started to buy and invest, and the wheel that was stuck for years, started to move.

Bitcoin is not a job, but without jobs around it, it is worthless. Just think about it and you will see (begin with the graphics cards industry). Without altcoins, bitcoin is nothing more than an interesting "hacker's game" or however they called it in the newspapers just a few years ago. There's no industry without jobs. There's no bitcoin (or any other currency) without people. How many people in the world have USD, and how many of them can speak English? If you try to listen to every man or woman who works for USD, use them, pay bills with them, that would be a chaos - you're right. But it's precisely that chaos what made USD the world currency. If only well educated, eloquent people, economists, and blah, blah, worked for and used Dollars as mean of payment - it would not exist.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that you and everybody here did the great thing for the blockchain technology with Bitcointalk and that tech will do good for the people in return. But the technology HAS TO SPREAD if it wants to live, it's a normal development path. It has to have more currencies, more users, more workers, more marketing, more everything. I'm just afraid that diverting ignorant and low skilled people from the only place where they can earn crypto (at the moment), you're suffocating the development. I can give you the numerous examples of the similar stillborn industries that have died out because their makers were not ready for the thing they have created, tried to make it an elite thing, and blah, blah, but I'm already shitting a lot.

Try not to maltreat people too much, because if they go away, development will stumble (and when it get stuck, it will unfortunately die) and all of us who believe in this thing will have nothing (and I don't speak only about money).

The problem lies in your attitude toward this forum.  Bitcointalk is not a "job"; bitcoin is not a "job".  This is a forum, and it doesn't serve its function well if no one is able to understand what's being posted here, or if what's posted is complete shit.  What part of my statement don't you understand so far?  Can you imagine what a discussion forum would look like if people could post as much garbage as they wanted?  It'd be chaos, and eventually it would fail.  

Please realize it was Theymos himself who put the merit in place, so he's obviously sick of idiots posting in a language they can't speak.  This whole argument isn't discriminating against non-English speakers, but if you can't speak it you aren't qualified to do a job that requires posting in English.  End of story.  Too bad, so sad, bye-bye.

Stop posting one-line shitposts and you might have a chance.  But you probably didn't even have to ask this question; you could have read thousands of threads about this.

This topic is about merit system and rubbish posts.

I see a lot of quality posts here. I counted more than 25 good posts and I see no merit awarded to this posts. Only a few on the first page are randomly awarded and there is no one merit given on next 2 pages for good quality content.

I don't think that this is how merit system should work.

There should be always a chance to get few merits of your quality content. I don't know maybe there should be few merit sources to which we can send our links for quality check and merit award or topic where you add your post for check and random or qualified users reconsider award.

I don't wanna be a jr. Member for life. Can someone please help me with merit to move to the next stage