You misunderstand me. Nobody cares about people posting the same old tired "reasons" again and again in the thread, like it's some revelation and only that person who posted was clever enough to figure it out. Really... we don't care about revelations that were revealed 6 months ago.
Topic: Mini-Rig from Butterflylabs - page 7. (Read 21155 times)
How is that missing anything? It has nothing to do with the topic. The same old, tired arguments are trotted out. Everyone is already aware of them. OP is 6 months behind the times. No one cares. End of story.
I think many care, because it's hard to explain why BFL doesn't improve the support. it's their easiest way to improve their earnings.
Thanks for rehashing the same old tired "reasons" that have been stated 100 times before and everyone is already aware of. Welcome to November 2011!
you miss one thing:
same old reasons since Nov, right, but if I'd run that company, I would have learned something in the last 4 month - they didn't.
How is that missing anything? It has nothing to do with the topic. The same old, tired arguments are trotted out. Everyone is already aware of them. OP is 6 months behind the times. No one cares. End of story.
Thanks for rehashing the same old tired "reasons" that have been stated 100 times before and everyone is already aware of. Welcome to November 2011!
you miss one thing:
same old reasons since Nov, right, but if I'd run that company, I would have learned something in the last 4 month - they didn't.
Good e-mail exchange last evening 
My point is, to wait 8 weeks for two rig boxes does not bother me in the least because I am not delusional enough to think that BFL should be perfect or that it's a cake walk to get more GPUs running.
If we had faith in their lead times this would all be moot...
Singles are taking 14-16 weeks now. They are saying NOTHING publicly about what has happened and why we SHOULD believe their current claims on delivery. As D&T said, they need a PR person in the worst way.
Rig Box is 12-15 weeks per Sonny (according to e-mail this week). I fear it is closer to 20...
EDIT - Sent e-mail to Sonny on this topic and asking for confirmation on mini-rig. Might as well ask these questions directly...
Similar situation with wicked lasers. They released the arctic, people paid, and months went by without delivery. Eventually all were delivered and they're continuing to innovate and deliver great lasers. BFL never went into this saying "in stock ready to ship" they went in with calculated estimations, those estimations were definitely high, but the moment they figured that out, they announced it lowered the price, and made design adjustments to accommodate higher power requirements. Sonny has always been prompt to reply to my questions, my first order was delivered and I've already got my second order in.
My point is, to wait 8 weeks for two rig boxes does not bother me in the least because I am not delusional enough to think that BFL should be perfect or that it's a cake walk to get more GPUs running.
If we had faith in their lead times this would all be moot...
Singles are taking 14-16 weeks now. They are saying NOTHING publicly about what has happened and why we SHOULD believe their current claims on delivery. As D&T said, they need a PR person in the worst way.
Rig Box is 12-15 weeks per Sonny (according to e-mail this week). I fear it is closer to 20...
EDIT - Sent e-mail to Sonny on this topic and asking for confirmation on mini-rig. Might as well ask these questions directly...
As someone who was an outspoken (and loud) critic of BFL I am convinced they aren't a "scam". They masively overestimated their specs and timelines. They also seem ill equipped to handle the non-tech portions of the demand they are facing.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
a) Regarding the Time risk, the delay was caused by changes in prototype, some Chinese holiday as
mentioned, and extended engineering to change the board from the Rev A (which you still can find its photos
on the Net). We're working very hard to reduce the delay to around 2 weeks for the singles and 4 weeks for Rigs
and Mini-Rigs.
b) Should it happen (which we haven't had any until today) That will be straight forward.
c) This solvency risk exists for everybody. Toyota is a very good example. We believe in our quality and
we won't ship until units behave as expected.
Good Luck
Thats assuming you already have a way to get an $8750 return on your $15,000's over the next 4 months. Those kinds of returns are very few and associated with their own risks no doubt.
$15K in GPUs?
Surely no one is saying that they can get 25Gh of GPUs for $15k nor are they saying that they can have them up and running in a week, possibly even a month. From my own personal experience, it took more than 8 weeks to go from 5Gh to around 30Gh. And there are a lot of bumps in the road.
- waiting for newegg.com to get your packages to you because they don't deliver on Saturdays
- waiting for misc parts (powered risers, Dual GPU plugs, etc) that you happened to forget
- waiting on the electrician to get those 240v circuits you now need because you are pulling to many Kw
- figuring out (and spending money on) getting all of that heat out of the space all these GPUs are running in
- testing GPUs to get the max Mh/s out of them without dying every hour.
- all the other stuff with operating system, mining software, USB keys failing
You would need to either have free data center space available at a drop of the hat or already have a pretty serious farm running (therefore already knowing where you fucked up the first time) to be able to get 25Gh up and running "quickly". Even then, it is not an easy task.
My point is, to wait 8 weeks for two rig boxes does not bother me in the least because I am not delusional enough to think that BFL should be perfect or that it's a cake walk to get more GPUs running.
Thats assuming you already have a way to get an $8750 return on your $15,000's over the next 4 months. Those kinds of returns are very few and associated with their own risks no doubt.
$15K in GPUs?
As someone who was an outspoken (and loud) critic of BFL I am convinced they aren't a "scam". They masively overestimated their specs and timelines. They also seem ill equipped to handle the non-tech portions of the demand they are facing.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
Agreed. BFL has simply bit off more than they could chew. IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
Scale [a] up to a 25Ghps mini-rig and you have 1875 BTC ($8750) in lost revenue during that 4-month waiting period. Essentially your $15k mini-rig now costs you 55% more, or $23k (almost as much as the original 50.4Ghps full Rig Box). They really need to bring the delay between ORDER and DELIVERY way down.
Even on the Singles, they are still working to ship their December orders. 4-6 weeks isn't bad, if only it were true.
Thats assuming you already have a way to get an $8750 return on your $15,000's over the next 4 months. Those kinds of returns are very few and associated with their own risks no doubt.
to be honest, that's the biggest concern i have with BFL. not the very short warranty, not any scam concerns, not the glaring lack of pony, but the fact that they require full payment for a product they won't deliver for an extended time after receiving full payment.
almost every analog i can think of, takes a deposit, but doesn't require full payment until the product is ready to ship. sure some take incremental payments (generally at pre-established milestones), but again, final payment isn't due until the project/product is ready for delivery.
almost every analog i can think of, takes a deposit, but doesn't require full payment until the product is ready to ship. sure some take incremental payments (generally at pre-established milestones), but again, final payment isn't due until the project/product is ready for delivery.
As someone who was an outspoken (and loud) critic of BFL I am convinced they aren't a "scam". They masively overestimated their specs and timelines. They also seem ill equipped to handle the non-tech portions of the demand they are facing.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
Agreed. BFL has simply bit off more than they could chew. IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
Scale [a] up to a 25Ghps mini-rig and you have 1875 BTC ($8750) in lost revenue during that 4-month waiting period. Essentially your $15k mini-rig now costs you 55% more, or $23k (almost as much as the original 50.4Ghps full Rig Box). They really need to bring the delay between ORDER and DELIVERY way down.
Even on the Singles, they are still working to ship their December orders. 4-6 weeks isn't bad, if only it were true.
As someone who was an outspoken (and loud) critic of BFL I am convinced they aren't a "scam". They masively overestimated their specs and timelines. They also seem ill equipped to handle the non-tech portions of the demand they are facing.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
IMHO the only real risks dealing w/ BFL are:
a) time risk. 800 MH/s miner earns ~15 BTC per month. 4 month delay = 60 BTC in lost revenue.
b) warranty risk. If new orders take 12-16 weeks then how long will RMA take.
c) solvency risk. If company had a huge financial setback (say 1000 singles died under warranty) could they absorb that and continue to operate
basically the risks are the same as dealing with any small business where demand way outstrips productive capacity. It would be smart for BFL to hire an business student (for next to nothing) to handle non-tech tasks like emails, order processing, releasing company statements, etc.
Psst BFL there is 10% unemployment right now (20%+ for college age workers), labor is cheap.
Thanks for rehashing the same old tired "reasons" that have been stated 100 times before and everyone is already aware of. Welcome to November 2011!
- poor customer support despite huge sums involved
- false avdertisment regarding product specs in the beginning
- very slow delivery
- wrong delivery times
- no updates on mini-rig on website
- very few delivered pieces
I'd buy, but this scares me off.
- false avdertisment regarding product specs in the beginning
- very slow delivery
- wrong delivery times
- no updates on mini-rig on website
- very few delivered pieces
I'd buy, but this scares me off.
+1
I really hope for all of you, that you won't discover, there's something seriously wrong with BFL.
there are many things, that don't fit together:
- poor customer support despite huge sums involved
- false avdertisment regarding product specs in the beginning
- very slow delivery
- wrong delivery times
- no updates on mini-rig on website
- very few delivered pieces
I'd buy, but this scares me off.
there are many things, that don't fit together:
- poor customer support despite huge sums involved
- false avdertisment regarding product specs in the beginning
- very slow delivery
- wrong delivery times
- no updates on mini-rig on website
- very few delivered pieces
I'd buy, but this scares me off.
Best of luck to you...
Sonny allowed me to convert my rig box order to two mini-rigs. That should work better for me since I can split the two into separate corporate data centers and avoid straining the A/C unit in just one data center.
As a side note, I plan to monitor my electricity usage and "pay back" my employer by using my personal credit card for an appropriate amount of IT purchases each month.
I wonder if adding 10% or 20% to the $.095/KWh would be sufficient for the extra A/C usage...
As a side note, I plan to monitor my electricity usage and "pay back" my employer by using my personal credit card for an appropriate amount of IT purchases each month.
I wonder if adding 10% or 20% to the $.095/KWh would be sufficient for the extra A/C usage...
Well - that would imply the mini-rig is not a concept but a product you can order?!?
Lemme guess 10-12 weeks
Sonny said my two mini-rigs will ship end of June, which is the same time my rig box was supposed to ship. So...More like 13-14 weeks. Long time to have $30k out there, but I think it'll be worth it.
official confirmation of mini-rig availability from a BFL rep would be great, even if its labelled as a pre-announcement community preview leak.
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