Topic: Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin - page 5. (Read 6474 times)
Well sooner or later the miners would have to rely on transaction fees instead of block rewards to keep things going. I don't think the high tx fee and the resulting increase confirmation time would be enough to kill bitcoin though. People would still buy into it for profit potential because of the price fluctuations and by extension, for value storage. What the tx fees might kill though would be microtransactions. It seem to be small enough to still use bitcoins for remittances abroad but as for using it to buy stuff, it may no longer be convenient. I've read that in some areas online wallets offer debit cards and those are better for daily use but I don't have them yet. If that would at least reduce the wait, then that might be the way to go for microtransactions.
There so many reason why this will not happen, but one of them is the fact that bitcoin will increase in price over time. lets say for example that a bitcoin was worth $10,000, and i want to send it to a Lightening wallet to use in commerce, or whatever. the fee is $10 which would be reasonable for securing a $10,000 transaction. The amount of transaction fees that miners would get with every block would be massive and would more than pay for mining. And also never underestimate the intelligence of human beings who need to solve a problem.
Now that the SEC has rejected the Winklevoss bitcoin ETF, I decided to actually glance through their S-1 (registration statement) that they filed with the SEC just for the heck of it. The S-1 requires a statement and discussion of possible risks associated with a security that is seeking SEC registration. In the Winklevoss S-1, I found this section particularly noteworthy (emphasis is original):
Not only is this a risk that they highlighted, my view is this is inevitable, and that mining fees will eventually become prohibitive not only to bitcoin expansion, but everyday bitcoin function. This is the flaw that will eventually render bitcoin unusable for everyday commerce, and the price will decline accordingly as demand for coins falls off as a result.
Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin, the question is if this is avoidable with some type of change, or a predetermined fate that cannot be altered due to the nature of the ecosystem?
Quote
As the number of Bitcoins awarded for solving a block in the Blockchain decreases, the incentive for miners to continue to contribute processing power to the Bitcoin Network will transition from a set reward to transaction fees. The requirement from miners of higher transaction fees in exchange for recording transactions in the Blockchain may decrease demand for Bitcoins and prevent the expansion of the Bitcoin Network to retail merchants and commercial businesses, resulting in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
If transaction fees paid for the recording of transactions in the Blockchain become too high, the marketplace may be reluctant to accept Bitcoins as a means of payment and existing users may be motivated to switch from Bitcoins to another Digital Math-Based Asset or back to fiat currency. Decreased use and demand for Bitcoins may adversely affect their value and result in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
If transaction fees paid for the recording of transactions in the Blockchain become too high, the marketplace may be reluctant to accept Bitcoins as a means of payment and existing users may be motivated to switch from Bitcoins to another Digital Math-Based Asset or back to fiat currency. Decreased use and demand for Bitcoins may adversely affect their value and result in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
Not only is this a risk that they highlighted, my view is this is inevitable, and that mining fees will eventually become prohibitive not only to bitcoin expansion, but everyday bitcoin function. This is the flaw that will eventually render bitcoin unusable for everyday commerce, and the price will decline accordingly as demand for coins falls off as a result.
Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin, the question is if this is avoidable with some type of change, or a predetermined fate that cannot be altered due to the nature of the ecosystem?
It depends on what we view as the nature of Bitcoin, will Bitcoin be used as a currency with a fixed supply and transactions breaking down into hundreds or thousands of satoshis or do we need to keep the value relative in only the first few digits. We can still break down bitcoin into multiple digits even if the price rises after all.
Or will we treat it as an asset-class that is a representative base index on which we base the price and value of all other cryptocurrencies upon as it does now when we price it on exchanges.
In terms of mining fees this is putting the cart before the horse in order to propel further growth it is inevitable that mining fees will decrease to increase user adoption as well as the block reward..
However in exchange we will see price appreciation and increased utility as all technologies related to Bitcoin and Blockchain technology develops and investment and capital is put into the sphere.
Stopping and slowing the number of transactions on the main chain just means that the incentive for side chains to do that same function grows. So is it a risk to Bitcoin perhaps if we hard-fork because there will be no base price for which other altcoins will be priced against in the period Bitcoin-A and Bitcoin-B exist. The more Bitcoin is worth, the more worthless it is as a currency.
The community will decide the path hard-fork to transactions and treat Bitcoin as a currency, soft-fork but keep mining fees consistent or something else.
Now that the SEC has rejected the Winklevoss bitcoin ETF, I decided to actually glance through their S-1 (registration statement) that they filed with the SEC just for the heck of it. The S-1 requires a statement and discussion of possible risks associated with a security that is seeking SEC registration. In the Winklevoss S-1, I found this section particularly noteworthy (emphasis is original):
Not only is this a risk that they highlighted, my view is this is inevitable, and that mining fees will eventually become prohibitive not only to bitcoin expansion, but everyday bitcoin function. This is the flaw that will eventually render bitcoin unusable for everyday commerce, and the price will decline accordingly as demand for coins falls off as a result.
Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin, the question is if this is avoidable with some type of change, or a predetermined fate that cannot be altered due to the nature of the ecosystem?
Quote
As the number of Bitcoins awarded for solving a block in the Blockchain decreases, the incentive for miners to continue to contribute processing power to the Bitcoin Network will transition from a set reward to transaction fees. The requirement from miners of higher transaction fees in exchange for recording transactions in the Blockchain may decrease demand for Bitcoins and prevent the expansion of the Bitcoin Network to retail merchants and commercial businesses, resulting in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
If transaction fees paid for the recording of transactions in the Blockchain become too high, the marketplace may be reluctant to accept Bitcoins as a means of payment and existing users may be motivated to switch from Bitcoins to another Digital Math-Based Asset or back to fiat currency. Decreased use and demand for Bitcoins may adversely affect their value and result in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
If transaction fees paid for the recording of transactions in the Blockchain become too high, the marketplace may be reluctant to accept Bitcoins as a means of payment and existing users may be motivated to switch from Bitcoins to another Digital Math-Based Asset or back to fiat currency. Decreased use and demand for Bitcoins may adversely affect their value and result in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.
Not only is this a risk that they highlighted, my view is this is inevitable, and that mining fees will eventually become prohibitive not only to bitcoin expansion, but everyday bitcoin function. This is the flaw that will eventually render bitcoin unusable for everyday commerce, and the price will decline accordingly as demand for coins falls off as a result.
Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin, the question is if this is avoidable with some type of change, or a predetermined fate that cannot be altered due to the nature of the ecosystem?
Its actually a call for concern and attention that the amount of bitcoin is going through the roof where part of the reason bitcoin is making waves over other mode of transferring currencies across borders but the issue that it will kill bitcoin is what I wont fully subscribed to in the sense that as bitcoin price is increasing so like wise the transaction price is increasing and also compared to other means of transferring funds, it still offered the cheapest which is acceptable across board...
Knowing that the fees will keep getting bigger and bigger, people can trade bitcoins but sooner or later they will swicth into another altcoin wit low cost option, soo bitcoin will start to loose slowly some investement, this is good to crypto world since there are a lot altcoins with potencial and growing like dash jump recently.
Protip: Internal transactions are free, off-chain, and instant on LocalBitcoins exchange.
I don't think you understand the concept of transaction fees. You still have to send your Bitcoin to LocalBitcoins and withdraw it, and as long as your Bitcoin is online it's never 100% safe as we learned with MtGox.Bitcoin transactions shouldn't all be about exchanging it for fiat, otherwise Bitcoin would be pointless.
Yes, the mining fees are getting more and more expensive day by day and we must find any concrete solution for it otherwise, it will reach the level of what other fiat companies are charging today. The core benefit of bitcoin is that it is (still) cheaper than other payment options in terms of transaction costs and it needs to remain under control.
Oh man I can feel the birth of another coin that will replace bitcoin in the mainstream. Or maybe it already exists.
Yes, the mining fees are getting more and more expensive day by day and we must find any concrete solution for it otherwise, it will reach the level of what other fiat companies are charging today. The core benefit of bitcoin is that it is (still) cheaper than other payment options in terms of transaction costs and it needs to remain under control.
Mining fees will not kill bitcoin. The higher the price of bitcoin and the more users using bitcoin the difficulty in mining has increased. The miners fee are just normal and must be implemented otherwise id mining industry will stop then bitcoin will die instead. If the miner fees are high then lets dont send small amount of bitcoin several times but send a large amount of bitcoin in one go that way you can save.
High mining fee may not kill Bitcoin but it will make its users to look for alternative. As far as I know the fee can be fixed by creating a standard fee and code it to Bitcoin program. I know the possibility of encrypting the code with fix tx fee (in USD value) can be done. If we let the miner decide what fee is the standard fee then we can even see 1 Bitcoin being the standard fee and that is insane. I can see in a merchants view that having this fix fee is attractive and the confirmation will be first come first serve basis to those who comply which I think is the best way.
Protip: Internal transactions are free, off-chain, and instant on LocalBitcoins exchange.
Mining fees will not eventually kill bitcoin because they are not that big and they are now getting lower in numbers. It doesn't make thise transacting at mining to be profitable to them and even those investing to a reliable sources decline back and stop transaction with them, because most of them were scam.
This is in blockchain is getting bigger of the fees when you send estimated of 10$ they will automatically reduce 1$ of it in fees so why coins will be acceptable whether i sent it to be honest im using our based web wallet here in my country even the price is not accurate on preev.com but whether you want to send its free and when you want to withdraw its also free.
Bitcoin works fine, but to reach mainstream status we need offchain transactions, otherwise its impossible. I dont see other way out but leave the blockchain as a settlement of offchain transactions, yes not ideal, but we have no other way out.
update!!
I woke up this morning and it has gone through, it is currently at 73 confirmations
So i'm guessing it took about 16 hours to go through, still pretty damn fast compared the banks, and cheaper
Bitcoin is still King!
so for small transactions that i am not in a rush, bitcoin still rocks!
considering the donation i gave was from a country outside my country,
if i tried via the bank, it would cost me 30 bucks to transfer the money to another country,
and probably 2 weeks, not counting the exchange rate
i can easily adjust the fees i want to pay as long as i am willing to wait, 0.07cents for 3.77 i think is fair
Like i said, Bitcoin won't go down that easy, its still extremely convenient
I think Bitcoin will continue to go up and up! 1,246usd per bitcoin, this is just the beginning
we're going to be able to purchase a home with a single bitcoin someday
glad i got at least 1 bitcoin stored offline
long live bitcoin!
I woke up this morning and it has gone through, it is currently at 73 confirmations
So i'm guessing it took about 16 hours to go through, still pretty damn fast compared the banks, and cheaper
Bitcoin is still King!
so for small transactions that i am not in a rush, bitcoin still rocks!
considering the donation i gave was from a country outside my country,
if i tried via the bank, it would cost me 30 bucks to transfer the money to another country,
and probably 2 weeks, not counting the exchange rate
i can easily adjust the fees i want to pay as long as i am willing to wait, 0.07cents for 3.77 i think is fair
Like i said, Bitcoin won't go down that easy, its still extremely convenient
I think Bitcoin will continue to go up and up! 1,246usd per bitcoin, this is just the beginning
we're going to be able to purchase a home with a single bitcoin someday
glad i got at least 1 bitcoin stored offline
long live bitcoin!
The fees are getting more and more expensive everyday!
Just today, i sent 3.77 usd and the bitcoin core client wanted 0.50 cents, that's ridiculous for 3.77
i created my own fee and the fee turned out to be 0.07, it's been 7 hours and no confirmations yet,
im not worried, i think eventually it will go through, and i wanted to test it to see how long it would take,
but yes, bitcoin would not work for small transactions for stores and between strangers, its too slow
i know the 0.50 cent fee would of been super fast, but it's way to expensive,
i remember when there was free fees and it was fast,
i have no problem if there is no free fees, i don't mind paying fees, to support the bitcoin technology because the transactions fees help the miners, but it is getting way out of control
i don't think bitcoin will go down that easy, it's still very convenient to transfer lots of money, millions,
i'm not ready to give up on bitcoin yet, but i hope they fix things, or yes it could kill bitcoin
Yes,its a matter of serious concern.With your fees as 0.07 cents, in my experience,i think it will take 6 days for your transaction to be processed.Thats ridiculous.The main feature of bitcoin,i.e., the low transaction fees has been compromised. Just today, i sent 3.77 usd and the bitcoin core client wanted 0.50 cents, that's ridiculous for 3.77
i created my own fee and the fee turned out to be 0.07, it's been 7 hours and no confirmations yet,
im not worried, i think eventually it will go through, and i wanted to test it to see how long it would take,
but yes, bitcoin would not work for small transactions for stores and between strangers, its too slow
i know the 0.50 cent fee would of been super fast, but it's way to expensive,
i remember when there was free fees and it was fast,
i have no problem if there is no free fees, i don't mind paying fees, to support the bitcoin technology because the transactions fees help the miners, but it is getting way out of control
i don't think bitcoin will go down that easy, it's still very convenient to transfer lots of money, millions,
i'm not ready to give up on bitcoin yet, but i hope they fix things, or yes it could kill bitcoin
If Bitcoin will continue to rise in price it is not necessary that the fees will rise as some think they will. It will be enough reward for miners to continue their work without rising fees.
But I agree that right now the situation for small transactions is looking strange. Paying $0.5 to send $3 is really a lot.
But I agree that right now the situation for small transactions is looking strange. Paying $0.5 to send $3 is really a lot.
I agree, the fee now is very expensive and there are a lot of people stop using bitcoin because the fee is too high, they prefer to choose another type of payment, if this keep continue it will kill bitcoin, because nobody want to pay 0.5$ for 3$ transaction, the fee is more than 15% of the transaction
If Bitcoin will continue to rise in price it is not necessary that the fees will rise as some think they will. It will be enough reward for miners to continue their work without rising fees.
But I agree that right now the situation for small transactions is looking strange. Paying $0.5 to send $3 is really a lot.
But I agree that right now the situation for small transactions is looking strange. Paying $0.5 to send $3 is really a lot.
Transaction scarcity and increased fees will not kill bitcoin but they will kill some of its utility, using bitcoin as a means of payment and any micro transactions on chain, like colored coins will be priced out.
Merchants are already dropping bitcoin because no one wants to deal with all the 'transactions are not confirming' problem, it's a lot of support tickets that need to be taken care of and that costs a lot of money, accepting bitcoin as payment will end up more expensive than other payment methods.
Merchants are already dropping bitcoin because no one wants to deal with all the 'transactions are not confirming' problem, it's a lot of support tickets that need to be taken care of and that costs a lot of money, accepting bitcoin as payment will end up more expensive than other payment methods.
.50 for a transaction under $4 damn thats crazy, need to get that under for control.
about sending fee and estimate time to confirmation transaction you can read in here https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
sending fee not about how sending bitcoin balance you sending, but how much block size youre sending
I don't think its killing bitcoin although it may shy away potential bitcoin users because of the increasing mining fee. Although as shield132 pointed out, the fee is somewhat becoming more attractive to miners to continue mining. But this is causing concern among bitcoin enthusiast, the increasing demand for faster transactions has also led to a drastic rise in the miner fee associated with each transfer. I guess, the increasing fee is currently an integral part of bitcoin ecosystem unless a solution has made been to alleviate the currrent crisis.
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