MMA Info and Predictions - Bellator, KSW, PFL, ONE... - page 57.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: notblox1 on April 01, 2022, 01:08:12 PM

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Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.

If Dana White does not like a referee he will make sure he will not officiate any event in the UFC, when was the last event Steve Mazzagatti officiated in the UFC, i do not remember him in a very long time and Dana White tagged him as the worst referee and then there is Mario Yamasaki and Dana White had issues with one of the fights where Valentina Shevchenko was beating her opponent badly every round and he was officiating and i do not remember seeing him again in the UFC.

Even last year Yacheslav Kiselev who was officiating was removed from the card after he failed to stop a fight in one of the preliminary fights and he was supposed to officiate later fights but was pulled from the card entirely and he never officiated again for the UFC.

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^ I guess. But it's still not an excuse to do it. It basically could pressure the fighter into doing a move he wouldn't have and lose the match.

Quote from: notblox1 on April 01, 2022, 01:08:12 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 01, 2022, 11:10:50 AM

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?

Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.
Take a look on one video showing craziest referee mistakes in UFC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FdxvX2aYk

I never said Dana White or any promoter could fire them. But they could prolly go to the commission and request to habe them removed for the event. And in case you didn't know it's the commission that sends the refs to the events to oversee the matches. That's why we see them same refs at UFC, LFA, Bellator, etc.. They are not employed by the UFC.

But a double point deduction for two fighters feeling each other out is dumb. I'd def say the same thing if it happened in the UFC.

Anyway, did anybody watch the PFL Challenger Series? I couldn't find a stream.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 31, 2022, 09:13:59 AM

Quote from: notblox1 on March 30, 2022, 05:27:20 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 30, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

I remember some refs doing the same thing in UFC but it's not that common thing.
I can't remember what exact fight in UFC that was but I remember commentators complaining about this judge and saying that is not ok.
Maybe they are pressured by owners to get more action and avoid boring fights, and they do that if they have weak character.

But a double point deduction just cos both fighters were in the process of feeling each other out in what could be the most important match in their careers? C'mon. If Herb Dean or Keith Peterson did something like that in let's say Yan vs Aljo bout, they would't see the end of it. They'd never be allowed from ever working in the UFC again. It's basically the ref manipulating the fighters into making a wrong decision. It's dumb.

Again, I think it boils down to the difference in the fighting culture. Where those types of actions might be strongly discouraged in the UFC, they might be well in the range of standard judging in Asian organizations, whatever we might think of it. As for UFC judging, the once hailed as the Gold Standard Herb Dean, actually made some extremely questionable decisions in his judging that are more of an offense than what we mentioned here, so there are plus and minuses on both sides.

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 01, 2022, 11:10:50 AM

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?

Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.
Take a look on one video showing craziest referee mistakes in UFC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FdxvX2aYk

tokeweed

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Quote from: notblox1 on March 31, 2022, 02:52:46 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 31, 2022, 09:13:59 AM

If Herb Dean or Keith Peterson did something like that in let's say Yan vs Aljo bout, they would't see the end of it. They'd never be allowed from ever working in the UFC again. It's basically the ref manipulating the fighters into making a wrong decision. It's dumb.

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?
They are untouchable and I saw many ref mistakes in UFC and not a single one was fired or removed from his work.
I don't know exact rules in One Championship and I didn't watch last event so I can't speak more about it.

PFL Challenger Series 7 is starting tomorrow with many unknown fighters that could sign a deal with PFL.
I can't find any history of their previous fights so it looks like they picked them up from street or from gym

Dana White or the UFC can't 'ban' referees per se but remember that ref at UFC 267 (I think) when he didn't stop the fight while one fighter was beating up the other guy who wasn't even fighting back anymore? He was gonna be the ref of another match that night but it seems like the UFC has some say to remove a ref from their events. Now I'm not sure if some dumb shit like the double point deduction for inactivity at ONE was a valid reason to remove the ref but they should be reprimanded for doing things that could change the outcome of a match.

You gotta watch it.

Edit: No UFC and Bellator weekend. That PFL challenger series will do. Lol.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 31, 2022, 09:13:59 AM

If Herb Dean or Keith Peterson did something like that in let's say Yan vs Aljo bout, they would't see the end of it. They'd never be allowed from ever working in the UFC again. It's basically the ref manipulating the fighters into making a wrong decision. It's dumb.

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?
They are untouchable and I saw many ref mistakes in UFC and not a single one was fired or removed from his work.
I don't know exact rules in One Championship and I didn't watch last event so I can't speak more about it.

PFL Challenger Series 7 is starting tomorrow with many unknown fighters that could sign a deal with PFL.
I can't find any history of their previous fights so it looks like they picked them up from street or from gym

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Quote from: notblox1 on March 30, 2022, 05:27:20 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 30, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

I remember some refs doing the same thing in UFC but it's not that common thing.
I can't remember what exact fight in UFC that was but I remember commentators complaining about this judge and saying that is not ok.
Maybe they are pressured by owners to get more action and avoid boring fights, and they do that if they have weak character.

But a double point deduction just cos both fighters were in the process of feeling each other out in what could be the most important match in their careers? C'mon. If Herb Dean or Keith Peterson did something like that in let's say Yan vs Aljo bout, they would't see the end of it. They'd never be allowed from ever working in the UFC again. It's basically the ref manipulating the fighters into making a wrong decision. It's dumb.

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Quote from: TheNineClub on March 30, 2022, 03:18:26 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 30, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

^ I wasn't just talking about the match with Demetrious Johnson and Rodtang. It was in most of the matches. I mean I get it, they want it to be more entertaining for the fans but the refs shouldn't do that in matches that have something more on the line than just a W. Like the title fight with Moraes vs Wakamatsu. The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

And there were also a couple other matches...

I get what you are saying, but this is not the UFC and different principles of approaching judging might apply, however dumb it may seem to us. I am actually not sure how much leeway do judges have under the unified rules and are ONE judges adapting the unified rules or are they working on their own ruleset...Damn, this could be interesting to find out, I'll have to look into it.

So, to answer my own inquiry (and to anyone who is interested), ONE judges do not abide by the Unified Rules of MMA, and therefore, something that might seem to us logical maybe not be something they are viewing in the same manner. I'm not sure if I am looking into this more deeply than it should be, but it might be also culturological. Their culture of fighting (and their fighting history) could be a factor in how they view a fight should be. The best example could be the difference in their pro-wrestling approach and what the west has (Check NJPW and how their fight structure differs from the organizations in the west, and yes, I know pro wrestling is not real fighting, but I think it's applicable for this situation).

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 30, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

I remember some refs doing the same thing in UFC but it's not that common thing.
I can't remember what exact fight in UFC that was but I remember commentators complaining about this judge and saying that is not ok.
Maybe they are pressured by owners to get more action and avoid boring fights, and they do that if they have weak character.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 30, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

^ I wasn't just talking about the match with Demetrious Johnson and Rodtang. It was in most of the matches. I mean I get it, they want it to be more entertaining for the fans but the refs shouldn't do that in matches that have something more on the line than just a W. Like the title fight with Moraes vs Wakamatsu. The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

And there were also a couple other matches...

I get what you are saying, but this is not the UFC and different principles of approaching judging might apply, however dumb it may seem to us. I am actually not sure how much leeway do judges have under the unified rules and are ONE judges adapting the unified rules or are they working on their own ruleset...Damn, this could be interesting to find out, I'll have to look into it.

tokeweed

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^ I wasn't just talking about the match with Demetrious Johnson and Rodtang. It was in most of the matches. I mean I get it, they want it to be more entertaining for the fans but the refs shouldn't do that in matches that have something more on the line than just a W. Like the title fight with Moraes vs Wakamatsu. The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out. It's a title fight ffs.

And there were also a couple other matches...

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 26, 2022, 09:31:06 AM

Referee'ing in ONE FC is just dumb. They can't just force fighters to get into action, esp not a championship bout. Double yellow card cos both fighters were in the process of feeling each other out? It's a fight ffs, not some football game. Betting on these matches is def not recommended. Refs are given leeway to somewhat 'manipulate' matches.

It is different than what we got used to UFC, but this was special rules for Demetrious Johnson vs Rodtang Jitmuangnon that looks more like combination of rules from different combat sports.
I didn't expect Demetrious Johnson to win but it looks like he prepared good in last training camp, or it was just his day

Rodtang Jitmuangnon is the real deal and Flyweight Muay Thai champion, but he is still young so maybe more experienced fighter won in this fight.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 27, 2022, 09:15:34 AM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on March 26, 2022, 09:11:34 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 26, 2022, 09:31:06 AM

~
Anyway, Demetrious Johnson next... Let's see how he does at Muay Thai. Lolol.

Edit: He sleepin'. Lmao. Demetrious Johnson won via sub.

Yup, it didn't reach round 3 and won by sub as predicted.

DJ landed some good punches and knees but he somehow survived round 1 by clinching a lot. I don't think real Muay Thai fighters would have done that but kudos to DJ's camp because that was still a smart strategy.

Isn't the Rodrang guy a legit Muay Thai fighter? I really have no idea but DJ had nothing on him in a pure striking battle at R1. Rodrang was applying pressure most of the time. But come the second round you could really see MMA's advantages vs pure strikers. There's just more ways DJ can go to win the match.

But yeah overall it was a good event. And a looong one. Would be nice to have a UFC like that.

UAE Warriors live rn: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/events/87616-uae-warriors-29-africa

Pardon, it's Rodtang not Rodrang Grin

but yes, Rodtang is a legitimate Muay Thai fighter while DJ is an MMA fighter. The rules wasn't unfair too as both of them could represent their each and own field of expertise but sadly in the 1st round it's all about Muay Thai and Rodtang has that advantage.

We can already see that at the start, Rodtang is calm and have given DJ a nice warm punch already while the latter is just almost pure defense trying survive the 1st round, barely. Until the 2nd round commenced and DJ had him until Rodtang ran out of air and win via submission.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 27, 2022, 09:15:34 AM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on March 26, 2022, 09:11:34 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 26, 2022, 09:31:06 AM

~
Anyway, Demetrious Johnson next... Let's see how he does at Muay Thai. Lolol.

Edit: He sleepin'. Lmao. Demetrious Johnson won via sub.

Yup, it didn't reach round 3 and won by sub as predicted.

DJ landed some good punches and knees but he somehow survived round 1 by clinching a lot. I don't think real Muay Thai fighters would have done that but kudos to DJ's camp because that was still a smart strategy.

Isn't the Rodrang guy a legit Muay Thai fighter? I really have no idea but DJ had nothing on him in a pure striking battle at R1. Rodrang was applying pressure most of the time. But come the second round you could really see MMA's advantages vs pure strikers. There's just more ways DJ can go to win the match.

But yeah overall it was a good event. And a looong one. Would be nice to have a UFC like that.

UAE Warriors live rn: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/events/87616-uae-warriors-29-africa

Yeah, he is, he's an MT powerhouse. I love how he actually adapted his stand-up fighting to more movement as opposed to the standard MT forward / backward movement. But everything else is as I thought it would be. DJ actually may be engaging too much but ok, I get it. However, as soon as it gets to MMA it's a wrestler with a great stand up against a non-wrestler with excellent standup, and in most cases that just doesn't go over well. But hat's off to ONE for being open to such a ruleset, and of course to the fighters for stepping out of the comfort zone.

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on March 26, 2022, 09:11:34 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 26, 2022, 09:31:06 AM

~
Anyway, Demetrious Johnson next... Let's see how he does at Muay Thai. Lolol.

Edit: He sleepin'. Lmao. Demetrious Johnson won via sub.

Yup, it didn't reach round 3 and won by sub as predicted.

DJ landed some good punches and knees but he somehow survived round 1 by clinching a lot. I don't think real Muay Thai fighters would have done that but kudos to DJ's camp because that was still a smart strategy.

Isn't the Rodrang guy a legit Muay Thai fighter? I really have no idea but DJ had nothing on him in a pure striking battle at R1. Rodrang was applying pressure most of the time. But come the second round you could really see MMA's advantages vs pure strikers. There's just more ways DJ can go to win the match.

But yeah overall it was a good event. And a looong one. Would be nice to have a UFC like that.

UAE Warriors live rn: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/events/87616-uae-warriors-29-africa

TheNineClub

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Here are the full results of that huge event:

There was definitely something for everyone here. DJ won, no surprise there. To make it a bit fairer they should have put the MT rounds longer, but the result was as expected. Sexyama gets a win? At 46 beating someone like Aoki? Damn, what a fighter. Also, JWP lost. The guy is super likable and always fun to watch, but maybe it's time to hang up those gloves for good.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 26, 2022, 09:31:06 AM

~
Anyway, Demetrious Johnson next... Let's see how he does at Muay Thai. Lolol.

Edit: He sleepin'. Lmao. Demetrious Johnson won via sub.

Yup, it didn't reach round 3 and won by sub as predicted.

DJ landed some good punches and knees but he somehow survived round 1 by clinching a lot. I don't think real Muay Thai fighters would have done that but kudos to DJ's camp because that was still a smart strategy.

tokeweed

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Referee'ing in ONE FC is just dumb. They can't just force fighters to get into action, esp not a championship bout. Double yellow card cos both fighters were in the process of feeling each other out? It's a fight ffs, not some football game. Betting on these matches is def not recommended. Refs are given leeway to somewhat 'manipulate' matches.

But all in all as a pure fan of MMA, the event is decent enough.

Anyway, Demetrious Johnson next... Let's see how he does at Muay Thai. Lolol.

Edit: He sleepin'. Lmao. Demetrious Johnson won via sub.

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Quote from: notblox1 on March 25, 2022, 03:47:52 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 25, 2022, 08:46:45 AM

I haven't paid much attention on ONE before but did they ever have a format like the UFC? Like having a pre fight press conference and a ceremonial weigh ins? I think it's cool that they do.

Yes, they always have both press conference and weight-ins with different rules like hydration test, but all is looking very professional.
I think Demetrious Johnson is going to lose again, he can't cope with Muay Thai champion Rodtang Jitmuangnon.

I think the UFC should implement the hydration test and if that happens most of the fighters will be forced to move up a weight division as they amount of weight some of the fighters are cutting is huge Cheesy

.

Demetrious Johnson was not having any challengers in the UFC but now he is having some serious challenges, may be because he is slowing down because of his age as he is 35 years. The fight against Rodtang Jitmuangnon is a mixed rules fight right, first Muay Thai and then MMA. If DJ can survive the first rounds he will win the MMA bout with ease.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 25, 2022, 08:46:45 AM

I haven't paid much attention on ONE before but did they ever have a format like the UFC? Like having a pre fight press conference and a ceremonial weigh ins? I think it's cool that they do.

Yes, they always have both press conference and weight-ins with different rules like hydration test, but all is looking very professional.
I think Demetrious Johnson is going to lose again, he can't cope with Muay Thai champion Rodtang Jitmuangnon.

One more even starting today is PFL Challenger Series 6 with four fights.
This is something like Dana White Contender series, and winners get to sign contracts with PFL, or not.

https://pflmma.com/

Topic: MMA Info and Predictions - Bellator, KSW, PFL, ONE... - page 57. (Read 15093 times)