Topic: Monero Economy - page 24. (Read 43688 times)

The idea of "smart" debasement is something that I've been thinking a lot about. Perhaps the block reward could increase or decrease depending on the transaction volume, with less movement requiring more debasement. However, could such a system be manipulated by miners to receive a larger block reward? Additionally, even if we perfected such an adaptive system, I'd guess it would be a tougher pill for the community to swallow than to simply say "3% fixed forever no matter what." If you're suggesting we somehow calculate the debasement on-the-fly to keep trade value steady, that would be an extremely tall order, and not necessary anyway. There are plenty of other vehicles where people can store value, a currency for spending shouldn't be one of them.

I'm not sure what the minimum effective dose would be, but debasement is also important for keeping the wealth distributed and the network decentralized. This is why I think closer to 5% (or maybe higher) might be appropriate. As long as the block reward is high enough for the miners to not rely on fees, then we can cap the tx fee to a small percentage of the block reward, and the payers won't have to enter a bidding war to get their transactions included.

Another cross post . .


I was wondering about side chains just a few hours ago in relation to Anonymint's Transactions Witholding Attack thread.

Do you have good sources of information about side chains that you're willing to share?

Can you further explain how the side chains would hold a value in relation to what you'd use them for in preventing a Transaction Witholding Attack? I feel like they would be an interesting way to prevent a tragedy of commons for processing transactions, but could you bring this idea more into the light?

What do you mean "garbage-collecting the chain"? I've never heard anything referred to as that. Does it just mean: Define a minimum balance, and let miners reap dust? Can your garbage-collection proposal where most of the block chain is eliminated be compatible with side chains?

I think this might be a good thread for this, so here's the cross post:


I think the proposal is a good sign that he's recognized the need as valid.

What I also think is that both of your solutions don't really target the "non-arbitrary" direction that is persistent in CryptoNote.

Especially for something like an annual debasement -- is there any way to work the 2.8% proposed by a minimum of 1, or yours at 2% into something that is more adaptive?

What drives the need for inflation? Are these variables trackable in the protocol? Can they be applied in a fashion that would allow a variable rate of inflation based on some specific need for it -- more like a window from 1% to 3%. Would that be more ideal?

Clearly we can't have the value of these coins approaching infinity, so I can agree that there needs to be a debasement. But, to what extent does it need to be debased?

And why are you darkcoin fanboys looking scared?

Sadly for the Monero fanboys, your currency is a bit late to the game. DRK is going to gain momentum and real world use before you guys even have a wallet/GUI that is accessible to anyone other than a geek. DRK's developer, Evan, has committed 2 years of full time work to DRK. Good luck with your Bytecoin clone

TA update

Long term exponential trend intact!!! Volume is coming back !!!
BUY BUY BUY 

In every way. More miners, more users, more developers of services, more value, etc. There are only a limited number of botnets and they have limited size, and they have many different uses. A large enough coin can't be affected by botnets. If bitcoin were still CPU mined, it would be too large for botnets to matter. That's the goal. At least the short term goal.

What do you mean by growing the coin ?
More miners ?

Added

please add this one instead
It auto updates when I update the chart


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2050232/MRO_trading.png

Good job with the charts dna, ill add it in OP

First MRO Technical Analysis post, for the lulz  :p



We are following the red exponential trendline

Quite simply by not worrying about it. If a coin is profitable to mine then many regular miners will come and mine it, and so will botnets.

If a coin isn't profitable to mine, then it isn't worth it for botnets either, because they can either mine something else, or use their botnet for a less risky activity.

Who else is mining the coin really makes very little difference.

There is this myth that botnets are infinitely large and free to operate and therefore you can't compete with them, but that is really quite false. Botnets are a highly scarce and valuable commodity and they will only mine what is profitable to mine.

In the short term the most important thing to do is grow the coin so even a small botnet doesn't overwhelm the currently-tiny network. At sufficient size botnets don't matter.

i don't think that's possibile at all

But how ??

No it is only about 19 days old according to the block chain.

this is the main issue that needs to be solved 


regarding overpriced/underpriced - the whole crypto sphere is willing to pay expectations, this holds true for bitcoin in its most mature state, as well as for drk or for monero

I would to but I'm just a casual coder.

AFAIK monero is a fork of bytecoin that appeared months ago and no exchanges so far. They had enough time to bring it up.

You forgot approaching zerocash/zerocoin.

This is the problem. CPU coins are always botnet raped and get lost rate quickly.

P.S. I'm not against MRO I like both Monero and Darkcoin. I just wanted to say that monero is overvalued at this stage.

I agree with superresistant (but again, remember I am part of the team and so I am biased)

DRK showed us what people are ready to pay for more anonymous coin.
Now, MRO vs DRK.
DRK has three things: X11, DGW, Darksend.
- MRO's CryptoNight is IMHO better (X11 is not CPU-only anymore but more than that, the requirements of CryptoNight are such than the very physical architecture of GPU should be changed - read the Cryptonote's white paper or at least their website.
- DGW. Again, CryptoNight scores better. On this one, I can only trust better tech than I am, so takes this one with an extra pinch of salt.
- Darksend. Ring signature is much stronger, even Evan recognised it
So, everything DRK does, MRO (and other CN) does it better. What is needed now is building up a community. For a coin without GUI, pool or exchange and only three weeks old, MRO is performing very well.

Plus, DRK suffers from the "instamine incident" in January, as well as a curve favouring early adopters more.

For more on this, eizh made a fantastic job on the OP. Look for "How does this compare to other anonymous solutions?"

Finally, what is the most marketable coin? monero (people's money) or Darkcoin (l33t haX0r's coin). On this one, I would tend to say the former, monero (of course) but OTOH, lack of tracability may not be a good thing for public spending - althoug we have a very, very, very long way to this kind of mainstream adoption (public bodies using cryptos) - even major NGO seldom if ever accept BTC - let alone others.

On top of this, add the "boundless setting" ("no fixed-value" as they say) nature of CryptoNote.

Of course, history is full of technological breakthroughs which lost for less technically powerful alternatives. VHS, HTML, Flash, SDRAM... all were technically inferior to the competition. What they  had, though, is widespread adoption. This is fairness of distribution (which brings widespread adoption) that will matter. Here, Darkcoin may succeed or not. Here will be the difference between various CN coins.

Yep, like Bitcoin.
Lesson is: GUI is necessary to pass a certain treshold of adoption. But not at the beginning (of course, to have it from day 1 is better).

BTW: I updated the monero trading sheet with the avg24 and med24: med24 is 125 000 sat

1. Theres a GUI Bounty and people are working on it, and instead of screaming here you could just make one.
2. Exchanges are working on it, its no Bitcoin clone they have to rewrite everything...