Topic: Monero FUD/Negativity Thread (Honest Discourse) - page 2. (Read 3795 times)

aminorex, that was a very weak post. i have come to expect more from you.

BBR cut the off the ring signatures. Pruning the blockchain is something else and feathers get ruffled if you say the wrong thing. BBR and XMR anonymity should be similar but neither has been thoroughly tested.

XMR is working on moving the blockchain out of memory and into a database. Once that is complete, the size is not that important. It won't be "small," but it is nothing current technology cannot handle.

Fair enough.  Thinking of the blockchain pruning BBR has done I guess I was under the assumption that the blockchain space might not be as big as it is with optimizations while maintaining anonymity.  The lethargic attitude towards blockchain space could lead to XMR being susceptible to something else bypassing it in this area (assuming the developers / leaders of the coin share your attitude of blockchain size concern = trolling)

I honestly don't know enough to know how much space it's possible to eliminate & keep anonymity under the cryptonote paradime.  I know rumors of porting parts of XMR over to bitcoin codebase with the recent attack.  And then drk talking about doing ring signatures.

I have no idea how much either of those really apply to this argument (would the bitcoin codebase mentioned implementing get rid of the blockchain bloat - or do nothing?  is it possible for drk to be as anonymous as cryptonote?) - so this probably belongs under the "uncertainty" in the back of my mind "is there a better solution out there waiting to be implemented that will eliminate the blockchain bloat and maintain solid/provable anonymity?"

Edit:  BXC (if this is legit - screenshots make me wonder if it is) - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bcx-thinks-he-could-attack-monero-rofl-major-wannabe-785326

I consider the point ludicrous.  Yes, it's better to have a more compact chain.  But not at the cost of robust privacy guarantees.  Without those guarantees, XMR would be no better than any of the "anon" scams.  What you are complaining about is the very source of XMR's robust position in the market.  A super-compact coin with no value is not interesting.

I say that only trolls care because only trolls don't want XMR to have robust privacy guarantees.  You can complain about the TSLA Model S requiring batteries, but if it did not require batteries, it would not have the market which it has.

thats fine for u random monero bitch #298593258 but seriously we dont give a shite about ur walls of text about ur garbage coin. just shut it up and crawl back in the hole u came from. or go to ur own munero forums. munero is a PEST on here and u make it grow

~CfA~

When I get hatey-hate from pathetic trolling scammers, it always makes me feel a little more alive, a little more like life is worthwhile.

I agree with this one as probably my biggest concern.  But honestly - XMR seems to be leading the legit altcoin pack when it comes to liquidity.  100K a day (sometimes less) isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.  So it didn't really seem like good FUD since it's normally beating all of it's peers.

While I agree with most of your other FUD.  In most of the categories you mention Monero is leading the competition.  

Your concerns are more along the lines of "what needs to happen before Monero is viewed as bitcoins equal"


I care.  And I have money in it.  I love the way shills just sluff concerns off as "only things the trolls care about".  Let me explain why I care.  If a bitcoin codebase - say dark comes along and impliments ring signatures.  Then the cost per transaction is much less as the cost for storage is much less.  As the cost to store all of the transactions are less.

It's called scalability.  Even if you think it's stupid - there's a difference between downloading a 250MB blockchain and a 1GB blockchain.  Fees likely would be 4 times less.  Want to know the currency I see pools delaying payments on?  Monero.  Wanna know why?  Blockchain bloat / spam attacks.  Increased fees.  Shill - in - chief making sure we don't "give away precious space for too cheap" by charging .01 transaction fees.

So in response - no it isn't "just trolls" who care.  It's people who worry about an alternative gaining traction with something that is more scalable/cheaper transactions.  We might be mis-informed.  Or stupid.  But we aren't "just trolls"

Attitudes like this - dismissal of concerns by character assassination - irritates me beyond belief.  

P.S.  Thanks for the added FUD.  Some pretty good points.

seriously could u shut the fuck up and stop bumping the monero threads?  do u have some kind of illness or why dont u fucking get it ?

~CfA~

I agree.  I think surviving the attack so easily (without even forking to exclude the bad transactions) adds a LOT of confidence.


Weaksauce.


They treat my money very very carefully.  I appreciate that.


Anybody can easily buy XMR on Poloniex today, if they can manage to send BTC from one exchange to another.  If you can't, I'll happily help you get some Monero.


Yes.  The amount of XMR involved is pretty small.  They probably spent it all on the attacks.


They buy as cheaply as they can, because they're not stupid.  And they won't stop supporting it because of a wee storm by disgruntled scammers.  They want XMR because of its particular features.  There is no other place to get them.


Nobody cares except the trolls.  It just means thin client is more important for XMR than it was for BTC.  If Chandran signatures are adaptable to the XMR blockchain without undue disruption, that will reduce the bloat, but really, having a blockchain 5x the size of bitcoin is not going to deter anyone from pool mining, which is all that really matters.  Just look at the hash rate on XMR.  Up 60bp per day since June.


It did.  You can decide if that is good or bad.  I won't touch it with a ten foot pole right now.


The emission is high NOW, which means the coin is cheap NOW which means you should buy it NOW.  The cheaper the coin is, the more dispersion it gets, and the more rapidly the economy can grow.  Spread the coins around.


We need more serious FUD:

10 - Not enough financial support for development.  Holders are greedy and foolish, and won't pay for software.

11 - No interest from dark markets.  I mean, seriously, if your anon coin can't be used on SR2/TMP, what good is it ever going to be?

12 - Too much interest from dark markets.  You think Eric Holder is going to wink at your drug trafficking tax dodge?  The hammer will come down!

13 - Bitcoin is failing.  If the grand-daddy can't float, how can the baby float?

14 - Not enough liquidity.  No serious money can go to XMR because pump&dumps are just using it to drain off fiat into their BTC wallets.  The cap has been down for weeks now.  Clearly it's dying like any other alt.

15 - Too much liquidity.  It doesn't attract speculative money because there's no volatility.  Without a viable pump plan, why would an alt speculator buy XMR?  Better to buy LTC which at least has a dead cat bounce coming due.

16 - No legitimate merchant will touch it.  Too scary.

17 - Anoncoin will implement zerocash, but without the trusted mint, using RSA UFOs.  That makes XMR technically obsolete.  Provable moon math trumps probabilistic guarantees from legacy crypto.

18 - Orange is ugly.

19 - Anonymous developers on the team means it is probably a scam/honeypot.

20 - Everyone is already all-in darkcoin, so it's too late for XMR to be leading anon.  Why then should I not prefer the leader?

Zoidberg and I had different opinions on the direction BBR should take. I decided it would be best for me to leave.

I think having an official (or unofficial) forum would go a long ways towards limiting the Monero trolling. This is supposed to be a place to discuss all ALT coins in general, and lately it has been mainly Monero or anti-Monero. The amount of pro-Monero threads and posts has initiated the response of people to counter them. The problem is so bad that even I myself am finding ways to criticize it, and I am someone who thinks Monero is the probably the best anon crypto/Cryptonote coin that is in existence today. I am just sick of talking/reading about Monero, and think it is neither as bad as trolls make it out to be, or as good an investment as the supporters make it seem. Again, getting your own forums will go a long ways towards the problem I think.

I've added this point (my own words) to the OP.


There was a monerotalk.org I think but I think no one used it.  I agree with the shilling/spamming/trolling for Monero is somewhere south of tasteful.  I believe the tipping point was when rptellia created a third thread the "is it possible to destroy Monero".  His altcoin observer - he admits Monero is his only alt so it follows that it's the primary point of discussion and most others are discussed in "how does this fit into Monero's vision".  Then there's the Monero economic thread - then there was a third one he created.  

Then Spotniek & Come-From-Above started spamming with jackpotcoin threads.  Then the Monero88 guy or whoever came in and started creating more monero spam threads and doing poe on Monero supporters.  I guess long story short from my viewpoint is average person here is stupid and will shill/spam/fud/troll in their best interest or entertainment.  The fact that Monero happens to be the center of that at this point in time doesn't say much to me one way or another.  (maybe it should)

I'm sorry, but that is not a good excuse. There are plenty of readily available FREE forum software solutions that take only minutes to install from a cpanel easily. The idea you need some custom solution to discuss Monero is ridiculous.

Bitcoin is pretty much the only Cryptocurrency that has a custom forum solution, and even it is fairly basic with Trust being the only noticeable modification, and look how far they have come. I understand they are working on a more custom solution, but it is definitely not necessary and ALT coins don't have nearly the resources Bitcoin has. For instance, I believe Theymos has over 1000 Bitcoins specifically for spending on custom forums. I think Monero's developers would be better off spending their time and resources elsewhere for the time being.

Every other Alt coin uses basic forum software that is readily available and free.. I don't get how Monero is so special that it needs a custom solution. Even if it is only temporary, it is better than spamming Bitcointalk with your threads.

Thats not true, we are writing our own forum software as we don´t want to be stuck on SMF for years like Bitcointalk; read the missives, its all in there. Theres simply no ready-to-go forum software that suits our needs.
Its pretty simple for us, we do it like we think its correct before we rush something out. Crap and rushed out code in the end will cost more time than thought out code that needs time tho for a first release; but the code has to be maintainable for years, same reason we refactor large amounts of the CN source.

One dev said that they will not. There are downsides to BBR's approach.

While I welcome any honest discourse / fud.  Monero actually took the lead in dealing with the attack for their coin by sending Zoidberg their fixes, etc.  I do agree that there are legit shills who are irritating.  And shills that appear to have been paid by other coins.  And together they make it difficult to have a real conversation.  


Um yes.  Yes there have been significant changes by both Monero and BBR.

 

Honestly I agree supernet is a bad thing for all coins involved.  I still am unable to comprehend how I can "use any feature used by any coin" to send NXT using BBR privacy.  It seems to me a way for jl777 to unload some of his holdings.  I've not really dug into it enough to know for sure - his writing style generally includes visions for the future, development philosophy & platitudes about working together rather than actual facts I can comprehend.

I just expect most people to view the BBR / SuperNET relationship as a good thing for BBR / bad for XMR.  

Yeah I think I saw him saying he was going to see what Monero did as it was pretty boring work.  Not sure if Monero is going to implement his fixes for trimming the data down or not.

While we're talking about FUD - why did you quit the BBR team?  I'm honestly curious - not wanting to launch an attack on anyone.  I'm trying to hold same number of BBR/XMR.

Nice post. A few comments.

3. CZ cut the ring-signatures off old transactions. He has not worked on blockchain database.

5. This is true, but even vocal critics of XMR (myself included) agree that this is minor.

8. Is not being in SuperNET really bad? SuperNET looks to be an elaberate system designed to make jl777's holdings increase in value.

I own BTC and XMR. I see Monero as having these significant downsides/risks:

1. It is the target of sophisticated, large-scale FUD and hacking attacks, likely originating from resentful Bytecoin (BCN) and CryptoNote scammers. (So far the Monero dev team and community have fended off the attackers.)
2. It may be more threatening to the-powers-that-be than is Bitcoin and therefore runs a greater risk of being banned.
3. Something better for financial privacy could come along, such as Bitcoin or Ethereum sidechains implementing Zerocash or Zerocoin. (Monero is the bird in hand. . . )

I've nevertheless invested in XMR because:
1. I trust GMaxwell who says CryptoNote's privacy technology is mathematically sound (though he has not done a detailed audit of the codebase and has not vouched for its quality).
2. The XMR devs also seem trustworthy, competent, and responsive.
3. XMR has several trustworthy BTCtalk members, who are usually focused on BTC, openly supporting it.
4. I like the name Monero.
5. I believe that financial privacy is needed and that many people will be willing to pay for it.

You should sell. Waste to bother your nerves over it.