Coinflow, I do not see any 51% attack, if it were so simple I would not be here. 51% attack is just a matter of convenience. you want to take possession of Satoshi Nakamoto BTC address? Actually hardware cost only is 7.623.786.501,55 usd + 13.625.659,00 usd (kWh consume) per day.
you want to take possession of those mooncoin stolen? would you spend 100kusd ? to get 62blns not spendable?
But Keep in mind that the dev can restore everything .....
Topic: [MOON] Mooncoin 🌙 move to a new thread - page 76. (Read 317742 times)
Good afternoon ! I believe that the best priority for Mooncoin community now must be the development. So, I will agree with daniel634.
Development needs a developer. So the first would be, that Vassilis clears the situation.
When this is done, Mooncoin should follow this roadmap:
1. Improving the security-model of Mooncoin
2. Teaching the community how markets work, so that they can invest with confidence and not need to come back every day, to ask for development and marketing and/or cry about low prices and many coins in circulation. New features will not help anyone, if investors cannot be confident, that there is a capable, reliable developer, concentrating on the main aspects of serious development first and foremost
3. Get the coin to bigger exchanges
4. Teach the community to share info about Mooncoin and to use the coin, so more and more people can discover MOON as a perfect means to store and distribute wealth, without the complexity of coins like Ethereum, IOTA or other coins assumed to be the "bleeding edge". This can and must be done by explaining, that the relatively high circulating amount of MOON is not a bug, but a feature. It will make for a stable price in the future. Remember: many new people don't like to invest into a coin, that costs thousands of Dollars for one unit. Mooncoin is the ideal investment for newbies, because MOON are still cheap. It only needs to be reasonably communicated and it must be backed by a serious, honest and responsive developer, who is there, if problems arise - supported by the active community of course
If we want to achieve all this and want to make Mooncoin a serious contender to coins like DOGE or even LTC in terms of reputation and market capitalization, then we have enough work to do.
Mooncoin should be a classic, serious, secure alternative to other, more experimental and thus high-risk coins.
Look at it like this:
The Moon means stability and reliability. So why not try to make Mooncoin kind of the "reserve" in the long run? Just as the Moon is the dependable companion for the Earth, which makes human existence possible; because without it, the Earth would not have enough stability to make any life possible.
He also emphasized the OR, which says, that he is not necessarily of the opinion, that he backs the fraud-accusations. Maybe he should clarify this.
I didn't mention anything about fraud no as there's no evidence of that, only that those coins were supposed to be locked up with no access as that is evidenced here in this thread. The only fraud I can see evidenced is Barry lied about locking those coins.
I have no idea why he was so fixated on the fraud part, if I believe someone is doing shady things then I will usually make that clearly known. Like with MF trying to get me to sweep Barry's debt under the rug and just let him keep my coins, or him offering me a fraction of my BTC back to leave it alone after so I wouldn't hurt his investment.
However, I would find it highly suspicious if the new dev is the one in control of those locked coins now.
Maybe barrysty1e was confident, that his solution would work and he made Mooncoin_Foundation and everyone else believe the same? But as the dev he should have known, that this is no 100% secure solution.
Either both overlooked, that Mooncoin is a Proof of Work-coin and thus has the weakness of a possible 51%-attack, which is what happened here? Or they ignored it and the "locking" of the coins was just marketing to drive the price?
A possible 51%-attack (and the relatively low hashrate needed to perform it, compared to the rates of LTC, DOGE etc. and in regard to the available massive amounts of hashing-power worldwide) was the reason, why I advised several times to implement other methods of securing the coin (PoS, hybrid, Proof of Human Work, mixed algos etc.). But nothing of this happened. It was more important to get a new logo several times, SmartLikes, MoonWord, lower block-rewards (to scare the miners even more away ...) and "locking" coins ...
i see too many people confused, I'll be very short:
1) about barryst1le look into Trust summary for barrysty “ agswinner 2017-05-11 0.00000000 Many jobs are incomplete, moonrush wallet for example, coinomi and electrum wallet,we have paid for having them, not so much, but we have something rather than nothing. Others dev for the same job demand a lot more!! This person is not a scammer! “ . The work done has an evident value higher than the requested amount ! (about 300usd).
2) about 51% attack unrealistic and imaginative, mooncoin blockchain has never suffered an attack 51%.
P. Vernon is the owner , he escaped to China with the private keys of the cold wallets of more than 50 coins (report 3 Fed Court) . On oct 2016 my alert of first coins moved “100 ml Mooncoin from account cryptsy moved to bleutrade. I think it's necessary to inform exchanges to freeze all the coins from the first two cryptsy addresses.
2F2RsYK3Ac6zGvENWTosF7xKor7g2bqzra
38,749,074,939.000 MOON ---- >
2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY 38,149,074,939.000 MOON 2PcvMEThutycp94myusjFWMFyoBT4ZPjuP (50ml) 2ab6krKewHA3XqDkNr7gkvbbr5z7NihnAY (550ml)---> 2FUg5Ay1STEroh6CQk4PXpVVEx8xQ8EY2M (100000000 MOON) “
Data: 10 novembre 2016 17:44:42 CET
A: [email protected], Fed Court <[email protected]>
Oggetto: I: Cryptsy
As is stated in the recent report, FED Court has the control of 8,421,008,915.0 MOON coins that have been gathered in this address 2M5kiseCXp6X5g75ZcWeo3BNsMYJxtDCzq
For the mooncoin community can you confirm that the first big addresses (2cLG2RzF6rDCtNws6We8o8avXs1grqARHU and 2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY) are under your control?
I am looking forward to a positive answer
Best regards
In archive of MF 16/10/2016 my discussion “....as you know, I'm the shareholder more damaged by the collapse of cryptsy and mr Robert Carey, Esq., Receivership Consultant Of Federal Court has not given me dettails, not clarify the situation concerning Moon addresses .As you know the largest address has been recently moved with a difference of 600 millions. This particular leads me to think that Vernon controls Mooncoin address. So i can not, for now, contribute massively, until this situation will be clear. ...”
The report 3 Fed Court confirmed what was my suspicion..
Look this 2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY —�-> to Vassilis donation fund
PVernon have the private key , why a 51% attack to rewriting Two years of Blockchain?
Hi agswinner,
you know I appreciate your work and what you have done for Mooncoin (donations etc.).
But let me explain in detail, how the 51%-attack worked:
barrysty1e wrote a new wallet-code, that was intended to prevent the one being in control of the private keys of the (believed to be) former Cryptsy-addresses (Vernon) could send them away. This works, if at least 51% of the mining-network uses this code. The coins are "locked".
Mooncoin is Open Source, so everyone can take its code and alter it the way, he/she likes. This ranges from the graphical surface up to its core-elements, like the hashing-algo and the such. Thus it is absolutely NO problem for an experienced coder, to take out the passages of the wallet code, that prevents the coins from the believed former Cryptsy-address to be sent. Now he only would need to make the rest of the network play by its (edit: his) rules, i.e. accept a transaction he sent from that address. Because all of the rest of the miners, namely the honest ones, follow the rules set by barry's wallet and would not use his altered code, he must "convince" them by his sheer majority of mining-power. Now as Mooncoin has a relatively low hashrate, compared to other PoW-coins, it is relatively cheap, to rent enough hashing-power, to "convince" the (honest) network, to accept the transactions sent by the attacker's code.
If the attacker has the majority of hashing-power, he does not need to rewrite the whole blockchain, but only "over-vote" the other honest miners to let the network accept his transaction, as he can now decide, which transactions are made final and which not, namely: written into the blockchain and be confirmed. In other words: as he wants his malicious txes to become part of the blockchain, he only needs to mine as long as needed with the majority of hashing power, until his txes have been fully confirmed, so cannot be reversed by other miners without investing the same or more of hashing-power to rewrite the blockchain regarding these transactions. Normally other miners/nodes accept the longest chain as the valid one and if they have those formerly invalid txes included/confirmed, won't revert them, but simply take over at the chain-position, where the attacker left and then just mine along from there, because for them this then is the most plausible chain, hence accepting the previously blocked-by-code transactions without knowing them to be wrong.
Everybody with a bit of knowledge could know right from the start, that this is a serious attacking-scenario, hence knew that it (edit: "locking") would almost surely not work in the long run, because - as I said earlier, it would only be a matter of time until it became profitable for the attacker to perform this attack. Most probably that is, why the attack was happening in the end of the markup-phase of the recent market-cycle, so that he could at least sell the ~17 bln coins, that where not sent to Vassilis' address, with a good profit at the highest prices possible for a longer time. See here for explanation of market: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/technical/04/050504.asp (I assume, you know of market cycles already, but as others are reading also, it helps to understand, how markets work, and why it happened now).
So to come back to what I said earlier: A 51%-attack is a VERY real attack-vector for any PoW-coin, even for BTC, but very unlikely, because it is THE coin with the highest hashrate, by far, so it is very unlikely an attacker would gain more profit by buying the hashrate for a 51%-attack, then by simply following the rules for mining. With comparatively low hash-rates, which - to be clear - Mooncoin has, I was constantly voting for mitigating this attack-scenario by working on mixed algos, PoS-component etc. And we still need this to do. The danger is exactly as high as before. This is, why many of the other smaller scrypt-coins moved to better security-models long ago.
Now to close my notes: if you argue, that there was no 51%-attack, then it would be best to let barry chime in and let him explain, how it was possible to unlock the coins, despite his efforts to "freeze/block them". As long as there is no better technical explanation, the 51%-attack is the best. Just remember, that it could be understood as part of a fraudulent action, to first tell the community, that these coins are locked, when - in effect - they are not.
Maybe another technical more savvy, independent user here could look at all this (especially the code) and explain it further.
I'm open for serious discussion.
Good afternoon ! I believe that the best priority for Mooncoin community now must be the development. So, I will agree with daniel634.
Hi Polemarhos888,What was the outcome of your meeting with Vassillis?
The time now is make things happen is right now. crypto is becoming more mainstream everyday and mooncoin needs to expand the awareness and advertising.
Good afternoon ! I believe that the best priority for Mooncoin community now must be the development. So, I will agree with daniel634.
Hello i have held mooncoin for very long time and the mooncoin community have all been fantastic and worked together for one common goal but since this unfortunate setback regarding 68 billion coins it has divided the community there is name calling abuse and bad talk etc on bitcointalk telegram and discord i think it is time we all worked together again as a community otherwise mooncoin will fail i want this resolved as quickly as possible myself but by arguing and name calling etc is not helping the situation i have asked on many occasions who has the power or authority to make the decision on the coins who has the authority to move the coins the way i see it is we can argue for ever but is it not going to change the final outcome so please lets work together and make mooncoin great
If there is a stolen money, then this is either a developer fraud, or a bad defense against hacker attacks.
That's why I voted for making Mooncoin more secure over and over again. But Mooncoin Foundation and some others blocked that - for example my suggestion of making MOON a PoS/PoW-hybrid coin or implementing another - more complex algo or technology - making it a little harder to attack Mooncoin, instead of spending development-power on MoonWord, SmartLikes and other relatively uninteresting things. If these really were interesting for the cryptoworld, the price would be much, much higher already - because as an investor you know an important rule: buy the rumor, sell the fact. Now we have the mess by setting wrong priorities.
I repeat it once again: If the basics of a coin don't work, then the rest is pointless.
@agswinner: I have been absent for a longer time for good reason. Part of it was to see, whether what I thought and warned you of, will come true. And it came true. Mooncoin was attacked and again some of the Mooncoin-people now are trying to draw the wrong conclusions (i.e "burning" coins).
How is burning the coins the "wrong conclusion"?
As for the government trying to overtake: I did not mean a government like that of the U.S., but the government of the some here always trying to sell some peoples opinions as the truth and the "decision of the community".
It sounds like YOU are trying to sell the community
Maybe you have not read the excerpt in full or did not understand it completely: the most important conclusion from that excerpt is, to not censor coins, because it undermines trust in a currency.
Yes, censoring does in fact undermine the trust in a currency.... Oh wait... Didn't the Bitcoin community vote to do just that?
Let me explain to you what censoring is.... and is not....
When a government or some hostile entity tries to manipulate and/or control an outcome. This is censoring
When a community, collectively agrees to do something for the betterment of the community. This is NOT censoring
As sad as it is, that these coins eventually will come to the market again and that previous owners don't want to buy their own coins again,
Explain to us WHY they should have to buy their own coins again? We want an answer!
when they are correctly handed to the authorities,
How is stealing coins from the community and giving them to a court, to auction off to someone who didn't own them, the "correct" thing to do?
In your own words... Exactly what makes the court/receiver an "authority", that is entitled to take coins away from rightful holders?
as good it is to show the cryptoworld, that Mooncoin has corrected the mistake it made.
Wow.... The level of arrogance/ignorance AND disrespect to EVERY member of the Moon community!
YOUR statement insinuates that the Moon community is somehow responsible for Cryptsy stealing the 62 billion coins.
That's like telling a rape victim that it is "her" fault that she got raped.
There were others here before, who described this as a big problem. But they were ignored.
And now everyone complains about Mooncoin "not taking off" and cries for "burning the coins" to make it go to the moon. Again a wrong path, which will make it even worse.
Considering many in the community as well as MANY people outside the community say there are too many
Moon coins, you will have to share YOUR logic on how reducing the number of Moon coins will make things worse.
Btw: there are many others, that may not even post here, but are also part of "the community".
I think everyone here is well aware that we are not the only community members.
edit:
Here the link to the mentioned excerpt again: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power
...and the text from there:
"Prevent any transactions spending "stolen" coins, effectively destroying those coins. If the coins clearly are stolen, then there is a risk that this action will be accepted by the Bitcoin community, but this would set a very damaging precedent. If it becomes possible for coins to be blacklisted in this way, then it is a slippery slope toward blacklisting of other "suspicious" coins."
You took that above text out of context. You can't take a paragraph out of a story and claim it represents the whole story.
So the coins were not in the Recievership control?
thats what i was led to believe. (from posts in this thread)
(after the cryptsy thing i should clarify)
i thought the Receivership released them...
was they 'taken' from cryptsy? (which is...good and bad)
thats what i was led to believe. (from posts in this thread)
(after the cryptsy thing i should clarify)
i thought the Receivership released them...
was they 'taken' from cryptsy? (which is...good and bad)
There were 70 billion Moon stolen from Moon holders by Vernon, the guy who owned Cryptsy exchange. 8 billion were turned over to the receiver by Vernon's ex-wife. Those 8 billion were auctioned off and the money went into a fund for EVERYONE that lost coins stolen by Vernon.
Now... There are some idiots in here that keep insisting that the remaining 62 billion coins be turned over to the "authorities"
What authorities? The receiver? And, just how exactly are they authorities, that would be entitled to those 62 billion coins?
The coins that were returned, belong to the Moon community, NOT Vassilis, and not the court and/or receiver.
Just because a "few" coin holders joined the lawsuit, does mean that courts can take and sell the coins from the rest of the coin holders...
That is theft....
So idiots like Coinflow need to stop telling the community that they need Vassilis to give the coins to some "perceived" authority.
Hello i just wondering wether Mooncoin_Foundation has any updates or news
About new algorithms, yes many discussions, POW, pos, hybrid pos/Pow. Barrysty1e for exempla pointed to the baloon hash, but University of Stanford consultant informed us of a security bug . Vassilis in fact have deleted this coding in the last client qt wallet. Obviously we will continue to innovate and it will be necessary to implement algorithms several times also in the last few years.
He also emphasized the OR, which says, that he is not necessarily of the opinion, that he backs the fraud-accusations. Maybe he should clarify this.
I didn't mention anything about fraud no as there's no evidence of that, only that those coins were supposed to be locked up with no access as that is evidenced here in this thread. The only fraud I can see evidenced is Barry lied about locking those coins.
I have no idea why he was so fixated on the fraud part, if I believe someone is doing shady things then I will usually make that clearly known. Like with MF trying to get me to sweep Barry's debt under the rug and just let him keep my coins, or him offering me a fraction of my BTC back to leave it alone after so I wouldn't hurt his investment.
However, I would find it highly suspicious if the new dev is the one in control of those locked coins now.
Maybe barrysty1e was confident, that his solution would work and he made Mooncoin_Foundation and everyone else believe the same? But as the dev he should have known, that this is no 100% secure solution.
Either both overlooked, that Mooncoin is a Proof of Work-coin and thus has the weakness of a possible 51%-attack, which is what happened here? Or they ignored it and the "locking" of the coins was just marketing to drive the price?
A possible 51%-attack (and the relatively low hashrate needed to perform it, compared to the rates of LTC, DOGE etc. and in regard to the available massive amounts of hashing-power worldwide) was the reason, why I advised several times to implement other methods of securing the coin (PoS, hybrid, Proof of Human Work, mixed algos etc.). But nothing of this happened. It was more important to get a new logo several times, SmartLikes, MoonWord, lower block-rewards (to scare the miners even more away ...) and "locking" coins ...
i see too many people confused, I'll be very short:
1) about barryst1le look into Trust summary for barrysty “ agswinner 2017-05-11 0.00000000 Many jobs are incomplete, moonrush wallet for example, coinomi and electrum wallet,we have paid for having them, not so much, but we have something rather than nothing. Others dev for the same job demand a lot more!! This person is not a scammer! “ . The work done has an evident value higher than the requested amount ! (about 300usd).
2) about 51% attack unrealistic and imaginative, mooncoin blockchain has never suffered an attack 51%.
P. Vernon is the owner , he escaped to China with the private keys of the cold wallets of more than 50 coins (report 3 Fed Court) . On oct 2016 my alert of first coins moved “100 ml Mooncoin from account cryptsy moved to bleutrade. I think it's necessary to inform exchanges to freeze all the coins from the first two cryptsy addresses.
2F2RsYK3Ac6zGvENWTosF7xKor7g2bqzra
38,749,074,939.000 MOON ---- >
2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY 38,149,074,939.000 MOON 2PcvMEThutycp94myusjFWMFyoBT4ZPjuP (50ml) 2ab6krKewHA3XqDkNr7gkvbbr5z7NihnAY (550ml)---> 2FUg5Ay1STEroh6CQk4PXpVVEx8xQ8EY2M (100000000 MOON) “
Data: 10 novembre 2016 17:44:42 CET
A: [email protected], Fed Court <[email protected]>
Oggetto: I: Cryptsy
As is stated in the recent report, FED Court has the control of 8,421,008,915.0 MOON coins that have been gathered in this address 2M5kiseCXp6X5g75ZcWeo3BNsMYJxtDCzq
For the mooncoin community can you confirm that the first big addresses (2cLG2RzF6rDCtNws6We8o8avXs1grqARHU and 2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY) are under your control?
I am looking forward to a positive answer
Best regards
In archive of MF 16/10/2016 my discussion “....as you know, I'm the shareholder more damaged by the collapse of cryptsy and mr Robert Carey, Esq., Receivership Consultant Of Federal Court has not given me dettails, not clarify the situation concerning Moon addresses .As you know the largest address has been recently moved with a difference of 600 millions. This particular leads me to think that Vernon controls Mooncoin address. So i can not, for now, contribute massively, until this situation will be clear. ...”
The report 3 Fed Court confirmed what was my suspicion..
Look this 2FgWY2MjPn9AG3bhuRLH5mhCKyc17eVHRY — -> to Vassilis donation fund
PVernon have the private key , why a 51% attack to rewriting Two years of Blockchain?
Guys! any updates regarding the burning of some $mooncoin?
They can't be burned, unless you would like to leave a bad sign (fraud-accusations) over Mooncoin forever. This will prevent investors from buying Mooncoin. The best way is still to hand the coins over to the authorities - to burn those accusations, instead of burning coins.
Edit:
Moreover, burning coins would make them unavailable for those who are the original owners. They would have a claim against Vassilis, which would make him reliable for recourse. So let's wait, what V's lawyers have to say.
I don´t support the burn or fork or anything else having that much power over a blockchain
Guys! any updates regarding the burning of some $mooncoin?
They can't be burned, unless you would like to leave a bad sign (fraud-accusations) over Mooncoin forever. This will prevent investors from buying Mooncoin. The best way is still to hand the coins over to the authorities - to burn those accusations, instead of burning coins.
Edit:
Moreover, burning coins would make them unavailable for those who are the original owners. They would have a claim against Vassilis, which would make him reliable for recourse. So let's wait, what V's lawyers have to say.
Guys! any updates regarding the burning of some $mooncoin?
moon will be soon to the moon, buy and hold to get profits !!
Friends,
Why hashrate raise up to 290GH/s now
is there any huge movement( billions moon coin)
Anyone help to check ?
Br
Why hashrate raise up to 290GH/s now
is there any huge movement( billions moon coin)
Anyone help to check ?
Br
was that because he sent from a ...an encrypted wallet originally? or did that setting on the wallet generator to ...be encrypted?
i think its one of the last 2.
I haven t done it myself. have to leave it for someone who has.
oh, is your wallet encrypted. (i think it needs to NOT be, but im not sure)
i think someone can help you, with these details, just gotta wait for that.
I haven t done it myself. have to leave it for someone who has.
oh, is your wallet encrypted. (i think it needs to NOT be, but im not sure)
i think someone can help you, with these details, just gotta wait for that.
Yeah...I have readed this....and I this is a problem with bip38 or 58 encriptation...
I don`t know what more I can do to transfer this coins.
That's the issue; hardly any QT based wallets use BIP38 encryption for importing private keys anymore. Only WIF.
"Note that not many bitcoin wallet applications or web services are able to import BIP38 private keys. In this case, you will have to use the "Validate" feature on the generator to extract the unencrypted Wallet Import Format (WIF) key as an intermediate step before sweeping the balance."
https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html
Click 'Skip', then click the 'Validate or Decrypt' tab. Copy and paste your private key into the blank field box, then click 'Validate/Decrypt'.
Thank you! I am travel on some hours.
I will try it asap on back
I have a hope now.
Keep in mind, that you have disclosed your private key to an online-service. So the most secure option would be to send the coins to a new address immediately after you have imported your key into your wallet and then don't use the former address anymore.
i think its one of the last 2.
I haven t done it myself. have to leave it for someone who has.
oh, is your wallet encrypted. (i think it needs to NOT be, but im not sure)
i think someone can help you, with these details, just gotta wait for that.
I haven t done it myself. have to leave it for someone who has.
oh, is your wallet encrypted. (i think it needs to NOT be, but im not sure)
i think someone can help you, with these details, just gotta wait for that.
Yeah...I have readed this....and I this is a problem with bip38 or 58 encriptation...
I don`t know what more I can do to transfer this coins.
That's the issue; hardly any QT based wallets use BIP38 encryption for importing private keys anymore. Only WIF.
"Note that not many bitcoin wallet applications or web services are able to import BIP38 private keys. In this case, you will have to use the "Validate" feature on the generator to extract the unencrypted Wallet Import Format (WIF) key as an intermediate step before sweeping the balance."
https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html
Click 'Skip', then click the 'Validate or Decrypt' tab. Copy and paste your private key into the blank field box, then click 'Validate/Decrypt'.
Thank you! I am travel on some hours.
I will try it asap on back
I have a hope now.
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