Topic: More Bitcoin adoption = lower Bitcoin/Usd rate! - page 3. (Read 4590 times)
^It's not reading between the lines but reading without discarding the context. Freebit13 asked how BTC price has moved from 0 to a few bucks. I've explained how it happened
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
...
Nothing to do with adoption. I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin.
Really? I don't know if you can speak for everyone else. I adopted it for easy gambling transactions, purchase it when I need it, and have never really heald longer then a few weeks, but have been lucky buying at the right times. Not sure where you have found the encouragement to speak on behalf of everyone who made money off bitcoin, but I can imagine some people were holding bitcoin for it's utility, while the price went up, which was probably awesome and enjoyed, but a generalization would be to say everyone who made money on it originally bought it as an investment.
I'm not speaking for everyone, certainly not for the gamblers such as yourself. I'm sure adoption exists, just like I'm sure people watch pr0nz for their engaging story arc. What I am saying is this: Adoption is not what's driving BTC price, just like captivating plotlines are not the reason why pr0nz are popular.
I hope this makes shit clearer.
My apologies, when i read "So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin." I assumed you meant everyone else, I will do my best to read between the lines next time.
^You clearly do not always tell the truth--you've claimed to have made money on Bitcoin, turns out you've only lost money thus far. I feel my caution is justified 
Why do I bother... it's clear that you have no other motive but to troll... whenever I say something that makes sense, you suggest I'm lying... your age shows in your posts. I will leave you to it. Have fun 
^
Lol, spending money may not be losing it (though, let me assure you, in your case it is), but, you must agree, it's certainly not "making money"
If you sold your coins today, you would recoup some of your investment (forgive me for not taking the word of an admitted gambler at face value, I somehow doubt you're in the black even if we're talking unrealized profits), but you won't, will you? So yeah, you're losing money hand over fist
Lol, spending money may not be losing it (though, let me assure you, in your case it is), but, you must agree, it's certainly not "making money"
If you sold your coins today, you would recoup some of your investment (forgive me for not taking the word of an admitted gambler at face value, I somehow doubt you're in the black even if we're talking unrealized profits), but you won't, will you? So yeah, you're losing money hand over fist
Aha. I think our disagreement is rooted in semantics: Your definition of "making money" differs from the conventional. By "making money," mundanes such as myself mean "ending up with more money than one started with."
You, OTOH, have spent money on Bitcoin gadgetry, ending up with less of it. Or, as us bland normals say, you've lost money.
Now that we've defined our terms, we can continue our chat on much firmer footing
Yep, I think semantics is not our only problem... you seem to think that when I buy something that I find useful; I've somehow lost money. Just because I bought something that you (and some others) might think is useless, doesn't mean I've lost money. Spending money is not losing it. Losing money means you have nothing to show for it.You, OTOH, have spent money on Bitcoin gadgetry, ending up with less of it. Or, as us bland normals say, you've lost money.
Now that we've defined our terms, we can continue our chat on much firmer footing
Let's see, I originally bought X coins, and used some to buy bitcoin gadgetry and now I have X+5 coins and if I sold them today I'd still be up over 100% on my original investment... I just don't see where I'm losing all this money.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
...
Nothing to do with adoption. I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin.
Really? I don't know if you can speak for everyone else. I adopted it for easy gambling transactions, purchase it when I need it, and have never really heald longer then a few weeks, but have been lucky buying at the right times. Not sure where you have found the encouragement to speak on behalf of everyone who made money off bitcoin, but I can imagine some people were holding bitcoin for it's utility, while the price went up, which was probably awesome and enjoyed, but a generalization would be to say everyone who made money on it originally bought it as an investment.
I'm not speaking for everyone, certainly not for the gamblers such as yourself. I'm sure adoption exists, just like I'm sure people watch pr0nz for their engaging story arc. What I am saying is this: Adoption is not what's driving BTC price, just like captivating plotlines are not the reason why pr0nz are popular.
I hope this makes shit clearer.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
...
Nothing to do with adoption. I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin.
Really? I don't know if you can speak for everyone else. I adopted it for seamless online poker transactions, purchase it when I need it, and have never really heald longer then a few weeks, but have been lucky buying at the right times. Not sure where you have found the encouragement to speak on behalf of everyone who made money off bitcoin, but I can imagine some people were holding bitcoin for it's utility, while the price went up, which was probably awesome and enjoyed, but a generalization would be to say everyone who made money on it originally bought it as an investment, doubtful, there is lots of people here who have other uses, although they probably don't mind making a few bucks while holding it either.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
... I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin....
The only way you could have made money with Bitcoin is by selling it. If you have, my apologies and congratulations for getting out in time.
My aim is not to use bitcoin to trade for cash (that shouldn't be necessary), I will only use it to buy things or as a long-term store of value because that's what it's meant for. I learned a long time ago that if you do things for the right reasons they have a funny way of working out for you.
Aha. I think our disagreement is rooted in semantics: Your definition of "making money" differs from the conventional. By "making money," mundanes such as myself mean "ending up with more money than one started with."
You, OTOH, have spent money on Bitcoin gadgetry, ending up with less of it. Or, as us bland normals say, you've lost money.
Now that we've defined our terms, we can continue our chat on much firmer footing
I am in full agreement. Bitcoin's value should not be based on fiat, Bitcoin was meant to replace it. Honest money!
There you go with your assumptions again... I can't help that you got into bitcoin for the wrong reasons, that is not the reason I got into bitcoin and that's probably why I'm doing so well
The only way you could have made money with Bitcoin is by selling it. If you have, my apologies and congratulations for getting out in time.
What I did was realise the potential of bitcoin after doing some real investigation into the technology (whitepaper etc.) and when the price went up I bought mining equipment to support the network because I believe in the technology; I'm not just after profits. 2 weeks ago I also bought 3 trezor wallets in order to support those supporting the community and technology and I will continue to do so.
My aim is not to use bitcoin to trade for cash (that shouldn't be necessary), I will only use it to buy things or as a long-term store of value because that's what it's meant for. I learned a long time ago that if you do things for the right reasons they have a funny way of working out for you.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
... I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin....
The only way you could have made money with Bitcoin is by selling it. If you have, my apologies and congratulations for getting out in time.
My aim is not to use bitcoin to trade for cash (that shouldn't be necessary), I will only use it to buy things or as a long-term store of value because that's what it's meant for. I learned a long time ago that if you do things for the right reasons they have a funny way of working out for you.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
... I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin....
The only way you could have made money with Bitcoin is by selling it. If you have, my apologies and congratulations for getting out in time.
My aim is not to use bitcoin to trade for cash (that shouldn't be necessary), I will only use it to buy things or as a long-term store of value because that's what it's meant for. I learned a long time ago that if you do things for the right reasons they have a funny way of working out for you.
Adoption is sign of BTC's earned legitimacy and it is calculated into the price in 2013. That's why we are talking about low sub-300, and not low sub-10 prices.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
... I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin....
The only way you could have made money with Bitcoin is by selling it. If you have, my apologies and congratulations for getting out in time.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
... I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin....
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
...
Nothing to do with adoption. I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin.
The point is that the "greater fool" basis is not a fundamental. It has been the main driving force for the bitcoin price in recent times.
However, merchant adoption IS a fundamental. I'm not sure that before the 2013 peaks, merchant (black market) adoption wasn't really the fundamental that drove at least partly the price.
Point is that the "greater fool" speculation has driven the price so much up that it left the current fundamentals far behind. And I'm not even sure that the black market fundamental didn't decrease a lot (bitcoin has become too visible to law enforcement).
The 'greater fool' drive always crashes in the end. But true fundamentals can exist. My guess is that the current fundamentals of bitcoin are in the single or double digit range. This can only seriously increase by massive adoption. But that will take time.
In the mean time, nothing stops people from playing the "greater fool" game :-)
I think once the boys on wallstreet get those Bitcoin ETFs up then we can look forward to bubble world. Till then, we will slowly drift lower. The one other thing that might spark a Bitcoin rally is financial system instability in Europe/USA or any other developed country. Once people get spooked they will run towards something, and I bet Bitcoin will be one such safe haven.
There will be a bubble.... eventually.
merchants dumping is good to help prevent bubbles. You greedy bastards just whine because you don't get a bubble now.
There will be a bubble.... eventually.
...how do you explain the first few years? It was worth only a fraction of a cent and now it's over $260.
...
...
Nothing to do with adoption. I've invested in Bitcoin because I was betting that someone (such as yourself) will buy my coin from me @ a higher price. So did everyone else who has made money on Bitcoin.
merchants dumping is good to help prevent bubbles. You greedy bastards just whine because you don't get a bubble now.
There will be a bubble.... eventually.
I think for 2015 it will be the same thing, retailers selling their stashes unless Bitcoiners stop spending their bitcoins. If that happens we may start to see a turn around. The lower the BTC/USD exchange rate goes the less appealing it is to spend your Bitcoin. So it is also possible we see a reversal!
Yes, but that means that there is a feedback mechanism that establishes a stable, low, price. Indeed, that's what's called a fundamental ! If the price rises somewhat, people will sell out coins to cash in on the rise. If the price falls somewhat, people will not buy stuff with cheap coins, but will acquire some coins which are cheap now (from a fiat point of view).
The price will then be determined by the equilibrium of offer and demand to buy stuff with, which is exactly what the monetary formula gives you. Point is, we are probably in the single or double digit area. It would mean that the speculation for higher future fundamentals essentially stopped. Nobody would think anymore that bitcoin would go to the moon, but would think that bitcoin reached maturity and a more or less stable price, with no advantage to hold bitcoin any longer than the time needed to acquire them and to spend them. With some incentive to buy when price is low, and some incentive to spend them when price is high, which is a stabilizing feedback mechanism.
The way for the bitcoin price to rise then again is two-fold:
1) more adoption (meaning: more stuff is bought with bitcoin, which implies a proportional rise in its price)
2) THE big thing in my mind: when suppliers (and maybe even people receiving a salary) start accepting bitcoin. It would mean that after an acquisition, the vendor will not convert systematically anymore to fiat but can hold a part of his coins to pay HIS bills.
I think for 2015 it will be the same thing, retailers selling their stashes unless Bitcoiners stop spending their bitcoins. If that happens we may start to see a turn around. The lower the BTC/USD exchange rate goes the less appealing it is to spend your Bitcoin. So it is also possible we see a reversal!
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