Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 112.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on July 03, 2023, 02:19:26 PM

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

So... Ferrari really saw a huge improvement in the performance of their car driven by Leclerc this past weekend, and I believe a lot of that is due to the upgrade they carried out with the new floor and front wing. But, Leclerc has already said that his car still has a weakness in straight line speed, which could possibly expose the team at the British GP at Silverstone.

From what I've been reading, this new Ferrari design was thought not only to increase the downforce but also to make the SF-23 more "soft" (I don't know how to explain it/what term to use).

Anyway... Initially it seems to me that the update gave the impression of having worked as expected, as Leclerc easily won the second position on Friday, half a tenth of pole Max Verstappen, while Carlos Sainz shone on Sunday, but I think Leclerc will need to remain cautious for the British GP, held at a high-downforce circuit like Silverstone, and could be a real test of the evolution of the Italian team.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 06:40:51 PM

Well, it's simply ridiculous and as I said, they should find solution for it. Seems that putting gravel trap or higher kerbs isn't an option because of MotoGP.

The only solution is to use higher Kerbs for Formula 1 and remove the kerbs for MOTO GP.

But they are lazy and they don't want to do it, it is not so high expense for them.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on July 03, 2023, 02:19:26 PM

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

I always dont know what to think about Perez comes back, because if you think about how dominant his car is, make not so worth that comeback. I mean yes he is a good driver, but i think most of the field with that car can make de same.

Sainz its not being lucky, the bad pitstop and after the sanction.

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I agree that this is one of the best tracks for spectators. Because it is much more available for overtakes compared to many other tracks in the calendar. I still don't remember drivers having a this big problem in 2022 Austrian GP though. As far as I know there is no change in any area of the track so I wonder what the reason behind is.

Hamilton was the most unsatisfied driver with the track limits during the race. He indicated that quite many times. Grin

This race didn't end well for him also after dropping behind Russell according to the final official results.

I think the best drivers of this race were Perez, Sainz and Norris. Especially Perez's rise was really worth watching.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on July 03, 2023, 05:08:31 AM

This has been the most awkward race in the season. I heard that there were 83 penalties given to drivers on this race weekend. This is really horrible and a sign of there is a need for change. I think they should review the track again and do something about the turns at which drivers are struggling the most. Because this makes the race really annoying for drivers. I can't say that I'm very contented with this situation either. We have seen FIA taking action on some tracks before.

Maybe they can do the same for Austria track as well to make the race weekend more enjoyable. I still enjoyed the race though as I watched so many overtakes. But this track limits situation is really serious.

The drivers are the ones who were overdoing it in their favor so FIA has got nothing to change in this track,drivers should have been more cautious in those corners where they were continuously warned via radio messages from their team to be careful exactly in these turns.

This track is one of the most beautiful ones with 3 DRS zones which consist near half of the race with DRS open and that is why you and all of us saw that big number of overtakes,they were 90% all thanks due to DRS system or this in normal conditions without DRS would not produce that many overtakes.

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This has been the most awkward race in the season. I heard that there were 83 penalties given to drivers on this race weekend. This is really horrible and a sign of there is a need for change. I think they should review the track again and do something about the turns at which drivers are struggling the most. Because this makes the race really annoying for drivers. I can't say that I'm very contented with this situation either. We have seen FIA taking action on some tracks before.

Maybe they can do the same for Austria track as well to make the race weekend more enjoyable. I still enjoyed the race though as I watched so many overtakes. But this track limits situation is really serious.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 02:14:07 PM

Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

Even though it was a fairly easy victory for RBR, they didn't get it very easily. Ferrari provided resistance which I would say was quite good, but still the RBR car's performance cannot be denied, seen when Ferrari was unable to catch up to RBR on a straight track. But still, in my opinion, the Austrian GP is a race that I say is one of the best this year, even though it is quite problematic, I still enjoy it.

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I don't remember the previous Austrian GP as this much problematic. It looked like this time there were many more deleted laps than before. Sainz's race really turned into a nightmare after these results. But not only the time penalty he got caused this to happen of course. Ferrari really destroyed his race by a really bad pit.

Norris and Alonso were really in profit after the latest version of the results. Normally especially Alonso didn't have an impressive race. I'm happy for Norris because he was really having issues with maintaining a good performance in races despite having a solid result in qualifying.

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FIA released final classification of Austrian GP, there is lot of difference from results that we saw immediately after race, but Top 3 remains not affected.

Quote

1. Max Verstappen
2. Charles Leclerc
3. Sergio Perez
4. Lando Norris (up from P5)
5. Fernando Alonso (up from P6)
6. Carlos Sainz (demoted from P4)
7. George Russell (up from P8)
8. Lewis Hamilton (demoted from P7)
9. Lance Stroll (up from P10)
10. Pierre Gasly (demoted from P9)
11. Alex Albon (penalty, but no movement in position)
12. Zhou Guanyu (up from P14)
13. Logan Sargeant (penalty, but no movement in position)
14. Esteban Ocon (demoted from P12)
15. Valtteri Bottas (up from P16)
16. Oscar Piastri (up from P17)
17. Nyck de Vries (demoted from P15)
18. Kevin Magnussen (up from P19)
19. Yuki Tsunoda (demoted from P18)

Well, it's simply ridiculous and as I said, they should find solution for it. Seems that putting gravel trap or higher kerbs isn't an option because of MotoGP.

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Indeed Aston Martin and Mercedes had a bad day. Hamilton was complaining about how difficult to turn the car on this track during the race. He got so many warnings which turned into a time penalty later on. Even Toto Wolff felt the need of talking to Hamilton about focusing on his race instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. Grin

Ferrari did their thing again and screwed it up for Sainz. At least Leclerc had a good race despite the basic pit errors. But Sainz was really deserving to be on podium in this race. His defending against Perez was just incredible and he was still almost getting the 3rd place for himself. Sainz was really pissed at his team about not staying out for longer during safety car also.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 03:33:20 PM

It also looked a bit strange when they called both drivers to pits during VSC when they were so close to each other. And both these pit stops were such long, over 4 seconds. Sainz wasn't happy about this decision at all.

They are often not happy with the decision but this is just a driver thing, also Hamilton and Max are not happy when the team does the calls.

Drivers has not all the data so they can't see what is the best thing for them, with the timers of other drivers or the GPS position if they do or not do a Pit Stop.

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 02:24:47 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 02:14:07 PM

Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

Interesting fact how Mercedes and Aston Martin were contending to be the second best car after Redbull are now losing track race after race,do they work there or don't work at all?I believe they do but they have been doing the wrong works compared to other teams.

Aston Martin actually made pretty decent runs on the previous GPs,, but whatever they're doing right now doesn't seem to work at all. Mercedes however is still doing a good job, although I believe they could have pushed for more had they been calling the pit stops at great timings and not too early or too late. They got a car that has been upgraded quite well but they aren't converting that fact into something useful for the team, unfortunately.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 03:12:01 PM

The strategy was probably a little mistake but I'm not sure about it, since Perez was going 1 second faster of Ferraris at that time.

Anyway, Sainz lost his podium for his faults with the track limits and the 5 seconds penalty.

It also looked a bit strange when they called both drivers to pits during VSC when they were so close to each other. And both these pit stops were such long, over 4 seconds. Sainz wasn't happy about this decision at all.

Quote from: püsür on July 02, 2023, 01:06:09 PM

I agree that F1 getting more and more boring and personally I feel nostalgic about some old times but it is what it is. Yes, no one is happy with such uncompetitiveness, but this is something that is inherent in this sport. F1 is not just about piloting, it is also a competitive arena that includes teamwork, tools and business development performance.

During race I thought about era when Hamilton dominated - it was also boring but not that much. There was Rosber who gave fight for him or Ferrari who managed to stay in figh at least until summer break. And time from time we had other teams winning races, now we are seriously considering that Red Bull can win all races this season. But yeah, it's not problem of Red Bull that their competitors can't build car which would be able to fight with them

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 02:24:47 PM

Ferrari did a decent race but as usual the team strategy hold them back from being 2nd and 3rd,not that is a big problem being 2nd and 4th but just saying and emphasizing that even when the car is decent and the drivers are behaving well by doing great drives the team management made a bad call in my opinion for the type of tires in the first pit stop,they got again for the mediums which was the move that "compromised" their race,nevertheless a great show by Ferrari as for Redbull we already know they are in another planet.

Interesting fact how Mercedes and Aston Martin were contending to be the second best car after Redbull are now losing track race after race,do they work there or don't work at all?I believe they do but they have been doing the wrong works compared to other teams.

The strategy was probably a little mistake but I'm not sure about it, since Perez was going 1 second faster of Ferraris at that time.

Anyway, Sainz lost his podium for his faults with the track limits and the 5 seconds penalty.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on July 02, 2023, 02:14:07 PM

Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

Ferrari did a decent race but as usual the team strategy hold them back from being 2nd and 3rd,not that is a big problem being 2nd and 4th but just saying and emphasizing that even when the car is decent and the drivers are behaving well by doing great drives the team management made a bad call in my opinion for the type of tires in the first pit stop,they got again for the mediums which was the move that "compromised" their race,nevertheless a great show by Ferrari as for Redbull we already know they are in another planet.

Interesting fact how Mercedes and Aston Martin were contending to be the second best car after Redbull are now losing track race after race,do they work there or don't work at all?I believe they do but they have been doing the wrong works compared to other teams.

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Another easy win for RBR, but as I said earlier they can win all the races this year.
Ferrari is in a decent status now but still far away.

Also, Mclaren did a big step ahead, keep in mind only Norris got the updates.

Mercedes and Aston Martin are losing contact with the top of the grid, again.

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 11:50:13 AM

Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 11:36:08 AM

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

Lando Norris had a strong race with the updated McLaren. He also struggled with Sainz and Hamilton for a long time. I think the young star had one of his best results this year despite seeing the checkered flag in fifth place. The results of the updates made by the McLaren team are starting to emerge. Sainz was kept behind Leclerc for Ferrari's late double pit stop, which left him unable to take full advantage of the virtual safety car period. Had it not been for the strategy error, Ferrari's refusal to allow a change of position and the track limits penalty it was inevitable that the Ferrari team would have achieved a double podium. We watched one of the best races of the season for Ferrari and we're finally starting to see the skills of the drivers. I will look forward to watching the Ferrari team at the British GP.

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Quote from: swogerino on July 02, 2023, 11:50:13 AM

Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 11:36:08 AM

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

I agree that F1 getting more and more boring and personally I feel nostalgic about some old times but it is what it is. Yes, no one is happy with such uncompetitiveness, but this is something that is inherent in this sport. F1 is not just about piloting, it is also a competitive arena that includes teamwork, tools and business development performance. You cannot ignore the race in garages and factories. You cannot expect the same performance from teams that sabotage their pilots in the pits at the most critical times, with the team that scores pit times in almost every race without exception. Ferrari was like a redbull in its time, and so was a Mercedes in Hamilton's time. They deserved it and they earned it. We know mercedes and ferrari don't have less opportunities than redbull. On the contrary, it even has many advantages thanks to its corporate structure and competition rules of fia. The problem is misconfiguration, wrong strategies, maybe even wrong pilot choices.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on July 02, 2023, 11:36:08 AM

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

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Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

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