Topic: MtGox reclaim procedure? (Read 9615 times)

Is there still not any reclaim forms or any action we should take yet?

I got a mail from Tokyo courts... some kind of pamphlet but not sure what it means.  Says something about Mark karpeles going bankrupt and didn't say too much else.

Were instructions for the reclaim procedure ever posted?  I had a little in mtgox as well, and would like to file if it's not too late / they will let us.  I don't see any form or instructions for filing a claim, but I may simply have missed it.

Not true, of course.  Bitcoin is not MtGOX.  MtGOX was just one of hundreds of scams that bitcoin made possible.

The media is not in a "FUD campaign against bitcoin".  

Thanks to the huge negative-FUD-PR campaign in the media against Mt. Gox, Mt. Gox now equals bitcoin. Not true of course, but it's the popular perception of the matter. Japan is merely looking out for its own strategic interest, if and when, it chooses to help out the Mt. Gox depositors.

Methinks that is giving too much importance to MtGOX.....Its demise was a catastrophe for the bitcoin community, but was hardly noticed outside it.

"Bitcoin has a high chance of being used for trade settlements. International remittances are troublesome and costly. In emerging Asian nations, remittances are often impossible because of the absence of banks.

     In countries such as Myanmar and Bangladesh, there are companies wishing to export the goods they produce. But if they actually try to exports their products, they find it impossible to collect payments. While a banking system needs to be created to resolve the problem, bitcoin can bypass the process. The trade structure of Asia will be greatly changed as a result. I think this will be the biggest impact of bitcoin.

    Bitcoins are an example of technology allowing less emerging nations to "leapfrog" the conventional process of technological development.  In China, cellphones achieved widespread use before the creation of fixed-line phone networks is completed, another example of leapfrogging. Britain was late to adopt electricity because its streets were lighted by gas lamps. Germany and Japan used electricity from the beginning.

     The same thing is highly likely to occur in the financial system.

     If Myanmar and Bangladesh gain power as exporters, Asia's trade map will be greatly affected. In such circumstances, big business opportunities will be created in the bitcoin infrastructure field.

     Worldwide merchandize trade amounts to 1,500 trillion yen ($14.63 trillion) per year. Commission fees are at least 3%, or 45 trillion yen. The fees alone will create a huge market as far as the bitcoin is concerned."

Clarifying my last comment: the loss of MtGOX did not leave a void to be filled, because any former MtGOX clients who wished to continue trading could do so at any of the other exchanges.  Any special features of that site could be replicated by another company without it having to assume the negative aura of being the "MtGOX 2.0"

It's more of a government-assisted acquisition for the betterment of the Japanese national interest that can be accomplished for a rather minimal net expenditure. Of course it would never be undertaken without at least the tacit support of a few industry leaders who have an interest. It would require a consensus of concerned business and government leaders.

As you know, there has been much speculation about what happened to the funds, and since no arrests have to-date been forthcoming, it suggests the absence of any evidence of major wrong-doing in this case.

Suppose the British had adopted that philosophy at Dunkirk?

Thanks for the information.  "This" being bitcoin in general, bitcoin exchange regulation, or specifically the MtGOX bankruptcy?

You mean, a government would take money from taxpayers and give it to creditors/investors of a failed private company, in the expectation that the police may be able to recover what was stolen from it?

That sort of thing just does not happen, and should not happen.  Clients will get those missing MtGOX assets only IF and AFTER they are recovered.  Which, in the case of bitcoins, unfortunately, may be impossible by design.

I really do not understand why people still entertain the idea of MtGOX being ressurected.  When someone dies, normal people lament the loss, but do not dream of digging out the corpse and bringing it back to life.  Same when companies die.

Reviving MtGOX makes as much sense as reviving Enron, or Madoff's fund.  After the remaining assets are liquidated, nothing will remain of it except the memory of a colossal disaster.  Any exchange that intends to fill the void left by its demise will do all it can do dissociate itself from that memory. (And there is not even a void to be filled, really.)

The jury is still out on this one. As mentioned in an earlier post, there is a committee inside the ruling Liberal Democratic party working on this.

For example, were it even possible that the remainder of the 650,000 missing bitcoins, as well as the 27 billion Japanese Yen in bank deposits, to be recovered, then the Japanese government, at very little cost to itself, could guarantee the funds so they could be returned expeditiously to Mt. Gox depositors.

I could see Mt. Gox being brought back to life as a younger brother company in one of the large Japanese financially-oriented groups

No one should ever be embarrassed for trusting another individual. Everyone must have trust in others just to live. (If you can live your life without trusting anyone, please enlighten me.) It's the people that take advantage of other's trust should be embarrassed.

If this is true, then they failed in this case.

If this is true, then they failed in this case.

Some free comments, worth every cent of the price:

* Once you realize that someone has told a flat lie (such as "MtGOX is solvent and your coins are safe"), you should ignore anything else he may say or write, and should not waste any time interacting with him.  If the MtGOX website is still under Mark's control, you should not trust anything you read there.  The court-appointed liquidators are the only persons you should interact with.

* Legal procedures usually require physical paper documents.  E-mails and electronic documents can be easily faked and usually have no legal status. Paper documents at least can be subjected to forensic analysis.  So it is not surprising that the liquidators want paper mail.

* When a company goes bankrupt, creditors normally recover only part of their due, and only after a long time and with significant paperwork.  That is normal; it is the reason why people are usually very unhappy when a company that owes them money goes bankrupt.

* For that reason, creditors who are owed modest sums often do not bother to file a claim; they just write off the entire amount as a loss and move on.

* If the leaked database is to be trusted, MtGOX had less than 20'000 accounts with 1 BTC or more in them.  So it is likely that only a few thousand clients will bother to file a claim.

* Creditors should file criminal charges, or press the liquidators to do so, if they think that the management was dishonest and may have taken possession of company assets.  That will take even longer, and may not be very fruitful, but it is important that it be done -- to discourage them and other scammers to keep scamming.

* Returning a small fraction of what the victims lost, after they have internalized their loss, is a psychological trick that scammers frequently use.  The victims get so happy to get something back that they lose interest in prosecuting the scammer, even though he still has taken a lot of money from them.

* The Japanese government has no obligation to help MtGOX customers, beyond providing the standard legal mechanisms for handling bankruptcies; and has nothing to be ashamed of.  It is the people who chose to put their money into bitcoin, and entrust their bitcoins to Mark, who should be embarrassed about the affair.