Topic: MtGox reclaim procedure? - page 2. (Read 9528 times)

If this is true, then they failed in this case.

I do not intend to "blame the victim"; what happened at MtGOX was a crime, the only questions remaining are by whom, when and how.  (Since the "transaction malleability hack" has already been shown to be another lie, the management is not out of suspicion yet.)

But, still, the clients should be embarassed for trusting their money to a business that they knew was intentionally outside the government's control -- opaque, unregulated, unaudited, usecured, and meant to be that way.

Governments, police, laws, and regulations were not created for fun.  They were invented precisely to prevent scams like MtGOX. 

Everyone recognizes, even at the highest levels, that what happened to depositor's bitcoins and cash at Mt. Gox was very unfortunate. That is not in question. Considering them as "unsecured creditors" who should have known better, comes dangerously close to saying "blame the victims."

While the Government of Japan has nothing to be ashamed of, neither do the depositors, nor should they ever feel in the least bit embarrassed about having been taken advantage of. They acted in good faith, and their only mistake was to put blind faith in the world's once-largest bitcoin exchange head-quartered in Tokyo, Japan.

Some free comments, worth every cent of the price:

* Once you realize that someone has told a flat lie (such as "MtGOX is solvent and your coins are safe"), you should ignore anything else he may say or write, and should not waste any time interacting with him.  If the MtGOX website is still under Mark's control, you should not trust anything you read there.  The court-appointed liquidators are the only persons you should interact with.

* Legal procedures usually require physical paper documents.  E-mails and electronic documents can be easily faked and usually have no legal status. Paper documents at least can be subjected to forensic analysis.  So it is not surprising that the liquidators want paper mail.

* When a company goes bankrupt, creditors normally recover only part of their due, and only after a long time and with significant paperwork.  That is normal; it is the reason why people are usually very unhappy when a company that owes them money goes bankrupt.

* For that reason, creditors who are owed modest sums often do not bother to file a claim; they just write off the entire amount as a loss and move on.

* If the leaked database is to be trusted, MtGOX had less than 20'000 accounts with 1 BTC or more in them.  So it is likely that only a few thousand clients will bother to file a claim.

* Creditors should file criminal charges, or press the liquidators to do so, if they think that the management was dishonest and may have taken possession of company assets.  That will take even longer, and may not be very fruitful, but it is important that it be done -- to discourage them and other scammers to keep scamming.

* Returning a small fraction of what the victims lost, after they have internalized their loss, is a psychological trick that scammers frequently use.  The victims get so happy to get something back that they lose interest in prosecuting the scammer, even though he still has taken a lot of money from them.

* The Japanese government has no obligation to help MtGOX customers, beyond providing the standard legal mechanisms for handling bankruptcies; and has nothing to be ashamed of.  It is the people who chose to put their money into bitcoin, and entrust their bitcoins to Mark, who should be embarrassed about the affair.

In general I won't give any government much credit. Of course they works, but they're very slow moving (most of the time), and transparency, honesty and efficiency is most of the time sacrificed. If the Japanese govt wanted to be public about all of this, I'm sure they could've put out press releases frequently, and even seized the mtgox.com domain and providing updates from there, and of course Mark and associates would need to be put in jail until the case was solved. How hard could it be for a small expert team to solve this case, given full access to all resources, or at least provide some clue? The truth is that we don't know anything.

Sure the govt agencies are working behind closed doors in their own tempo and will give us updates whenever they feel like, but I would much rather have trusted a small 7-man team to solve the entire case in a couple of months..

There are fiat trails for all missing fiats, 200k btc is surely recovered, Marks btc should all be confiscated, and Mark should be put under immense pressure till he cracks, along with Gay-Buchery and any other that might be involved.

The problem is that bureaucrats and politicians don't really care about having things done. Some of them do, but many of them are only concerned about getting through their day defending their own position, and doing the minimal amount required. There's of course the occasional hardworking honest guy, but in general, the bigger an entity becomes, the more bureaucratic it becomes.

If you want me to applaud the Japanese govt. I will not be first in the queue.

Check this out:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/12/31/258655342/japans-state-secrets-law-hailed-by-u-s-denounced-by-japanese

The penalties for violators are harsh: 10 years in prison for civil servants who leak classified information; five years for citizens convicted of abetting leaks.

And Washington put pressure on Japan to make it happen..

Read this story:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-02-16/the-story-behind-the-olympus-scandal
Another source: http://www.acfe.com/woodford/

"But the basic rule in Japan is you don't ever publicly criticize."

I've heard that is's not customary to critisize Nikkei-listed companies, and I believe the Olympus scandal happened because of foreign media.

There are many good things about Japan, but as in most countries, there's a lot of bad things as well.

Please give the Japanese government a little credit for intelligence. Anyone can see that what happened at Mt. Gox is very unfortunate. Prime Minister Abe's administration is trying to enhance Japan's attractiveness as an investment destination, not detract from it.

The ruling Liberal Democratic Party in Japan has a committee working on how best to handle this debacle as well as bitcoin in general. When the timing is right, and a consensus has been reached among Japanese leaders, there will be an announcement. One thing is for certain, the Tokyo bankruptcy court in no way has the final word on this matter.

Some people are just nitpickers huh?. Now, get back to your assembly programming, or inputting binary for hand, or whatever your hobby is.