MtGox wires ARE delayed - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ArticMine

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Quote from: TimJBenham on June 22, 2013, 06:14:21 PM

Quote from: samson on June 22, 2013, 11:56:51 AM

So this goes to show that the US could interfere with many more USD transactions around the world if they wanted to.

And they have. In 2012 the US seized a USD wire from Denmark to Germany. It hs been reported that the US government has access to data on all international wires. See also http://www.coindesk.com/team-americas-dwolla-bashing-is-just-the-start/

Let me guess. The USD wire from Denmark to Germany used a correspondent bank in the United States. So in reality the funds went from Denmark to the United States to Germany. I doubt very much the payment could have been seized if it had been made in Euros.

Routing a payment for Cuban cigars through the United States is just very dumb, and yes it did violate US law.

TimJBenham

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Quote from: samson on June 22, 2013, 11:56:51 AM

So this goes to show that the US could interfere with many more USD transactions around the world if they wanted to.

And they have. In 2012 the US seized a USD wire from Denmark to Germany. It hs been reported that the US government has access to data on all international wires. See also http://www.coindesk.com/team-americas-dwolla-bashing-is-just-the-start/

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: Roy Badami on June 22, 2013, 01:36:36 PM

Yes, but I think Eurodollar deposits are generally largely backed by the deposit taker in turn holding dollars at a US bank, no?

No.

Roy Badami

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Quote from: samson on June 22, 2013, 11:56:51 AM

I guess one way to get around any interference would be to have the sending bank convert the USD into a different currency in house before sending the wire.

For example a Japanese company that deals with a lot of foreign transfers could convert a USD payment into Yen and then wire the Yen to the recipient where it would be converted by the receiving bank into the accounts native currency. This would probably cost a bit more though.

So, to take the case of a Mt Gox withdrawal (or deposit), if you withdraw or deposit in either your own country's currency, or in Japanese Yen, then although the transfer might still go through an intermediate bank, if it does then that bank will probably be either in your own country or in Japan.

If you do the transfer in a third country's currency (such as someone in a country other than the US or Japan doing a transfer to/from Gox in USD) then the transfer will probably go via one of more banks in the third country.

One might argue that involves an increase in jurisdictional risk (the transfer is now subject to three jurisdictions rather than two). Whether in reality it increases the risk of the transfer is less clear.

roy

Roy Badami

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 22, 2013, 12:18:38 PM

The linked article is uniquely ignorant. There is such a thing as Eurodollars, which is a topic ignoramuses such as the people signing "opinions" for the Bitcoin Foundation scam are well advised to read up on.

Yes, but I think Eurodollar deposits are generally largely backed by the deposit taker in turn holding dollars at a US bank, no? (Of course, in many cases the US bank will actually be the US branch of the same bank.)

Foreign banks don't have direct access to the Federal Reserve System, and hiding wads of dollar bills ~~under the mattress~~ in a bank vault is so 19th century.

In any case, from what I've read international wire transfers are normally settled via correspondent banks in the country which issues the currency. I'm sure there are exceptions, but you should generally assume that a USD transfer will go via one or two US banks unless you have information to the contrary.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: ineededausername on June 20, 2013, 10:59:08 AM

Mtux says Mizuho Bank's automated wire transfer API is broken right now. Wires can only be sent out manually by Mizuho. Gox is opening accounts at other banks, which should drastically improve USD withdrawal times and bypass the technical problems at Mizuho. This process should take around 2 weeks.

Way does this remind me of FullTilt (poker site) prior to its demise here in the US? I beat that dead horse for about two years before abandoning my efforts to get my money back.

Luckily for me, in about a week I'll once again gain control of the huge chuck of change that InstaWallet has been so kind to oversee for the past three months.

The writing's on the wall
In this here bathroom stall
It's very clear to see
That Mt Gox will cease to be

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: samson on June 22, 2013, 11:56:51 AM

Quote from: Roy Badami on June 22, 2013, 11:39:27 AM

Quote from: samson on June 21, 2013, 08:02:58 AM

WTF ! If the US decides to go after Bitcoin in a big and more overt way then they could disrupt transactions which go nowhere near a US bank.

Whatever makes you think that a US Dollar transfer would go nowhere near a US bank? For a brief description of how international wire transfers work, see this post on the Bitcoin Foundation's blog:

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=63

It's a fiat currency after all, so it only exists because because the US says it does. And only US banks (or US branches of foreign banks) have access to the Federal Reserve system. This isn't unique to the US and the US Dollar, BTW - it's just how fiat currency works.

roy

Interesting read. So this goes to show that the US could interfere with many more USD transactions around the world if they wanted to.

I guess one way to get around any interference would be to have the sending bank convert the USD into a different currency in house before sending the wire.

For example a Japanese company that deals with a lot of foreign transfers could convert a USD payment into Yen and then wire the Yen to the recipient where it would be converted by the receiving bank into the accounts native currency. This would probably cost a bit more though.

Quote

As I said earlier, USD does not really exist out of the US, meaning here that your bank owns a bank account with another bank in America to deal with USD, and the same is true for the merchant's bank that you are sending money to.

The linked article is uniquely ignorant. There is such a thing as Eurodollars, which is a topic ignoramuses such as the people signing "opinions" for the Bitcoin Foundation scam are well advised to read up on.

Yes, people deal in dollars outside the reach of the US all the damned time. There's even a fucking futures on them, one of the higher volume future contracts traded. How can people be this clueless, seriously?

This is the problem of Bitcoin: nobodies make things with pompous names, such as "the official client" or "the bitcoin foundation" or what have you. These are no different in practice from a 3 inch reproduction of the Eiffel tower in masticated chewing gum.

Then nobodies go around quoting this bullshit as if it were meaningful or relevant. Then shit hits the fan and everyone is like... "oh...because Bitcoin". No. Not because Bitcoin. Because nobodies.

samson

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Quote from: Roy Badami on June 22, 2013, 11:39:27 AM

Quote from: samson on June 21, 2013, 08:02:58 AM

WTF ! If the US decides to go after Bitcoin in a big and more overt way then they could disrupt transactions which go nowhere near a US bank.

Whatever makes you think that a US Dollar transfer would go nowhere near a US bank? For a brief description of how international wire transfers work, see this post on the Bitcoin Foundation's blog:

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=63

It's a fiat currency after all, so it only exists because because the US says it does. And only US banks (or US branches of foreign banks) have access to the Federal Reserve system. This isn't unique to the US and the US Dollar, BTW - it's just how fiat currency works.

roy

Interesting read. So this goes to show that the US could interfere with many more USD transactions around the world if they wanted to.

I guess one way to get around any interference would be to have the sending bank convert the USD into a different currency in house before sending the wire.

For example a Japanese company that deals with a lot of foreign transfers could convert a USD payment into Yen and then wire the Yen to the recipient where it would be converted by the receiving bank into the accounts native currency. This would probably cost a bit more though.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on June 22, 2013, 10:55:24 AM

So i'm not sure how the previous poster was able to get any information from them

It's called forum posting, a subset of fiction writing.

Roy Badami

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Quote from: samson on June 21, 2013, 08:02:58 AM

WTF ! If the US decides to go after Bitcoin in a big and more overt way then they could disrupt transactions which go nowhere near a US bank.

Whatever makes you think that a US Dollar transfer would go nowhere near a US bank? For a brief description of how international wire transfers work, see this post on the Bitcoin Foundation's blog:

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=63

It's a fiat currency after all, so it only exists because because the US says it does. And only US banks (or US branches of foreign banks) have access to the Federal Reserve system. This isn't unique to the US and the US Dollar, BTW - it's just how fiat currency works.

roy

joesmoe2012

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on June 22, 2013, 10:46:08 AM

Quote from: gizmoh on June 21, 2013, 02:49:22 PM

Frankly we need to sort this out and we need a JAPANESE guy Huh

to call/go to Mizuho and confirm the issue with Mt Gox!

On it.

They would not divulge any information. I lived in japan for a bit and have some friends there, had one of them call 2 different times. Both times some privacy bs about not being able to give out information on customers.

So i'm not sure how the previous poster was able to get any information from them.

joesmoe2012

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Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

Quote from: gizmoh on June 21, 2013, 02:49:22 PM

Frankly we need to sort this out and we need a JAPANESE guy Huh

to call/go to Mizuho and confirm the issue with Mt Gox!

On it.

ineededausername

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Minor update.

Code:

[21:26] hi mark! got just one question today: are you only sending wires to the partners who need them, or are you slowly processing normal users' wires too?
[21:26] MtGox official statement on FB says that you are delivering at a temporarily reduced rate to normal customers, too.
[21:31] yep
[21:31] we will starting next week

gizmoh

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Frankly we need to sort this out and we need a JAPANESE guy Huh

to call/go to Mizuho and confirm the issue with Mt Gox!

xavier

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Come on guys!!

It's obvious there is no technical problem here. The bank is under pressure from USA regulators to stop doing business in US dollars with MtGox

Isn't it a coincidence that only USD transactions are affected?

Seriously.... where is the common sense here

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: szita2000 on June 21, 2013, 12:19:16 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on June 20, 2013, 09:42:45 PM

I've read Euros can be withdrawn just fine and quickly? Is it is true how does that fit with the automated wire transfer system outage? Wouldn't they be processed by the same system?

Let me correct you.

I have a request in EUR from 23rd of May... Still no money.

you can read Mt.Gox support's bullshit over here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2542142

sorry to see that.
But thanks for the info.

szita2000

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on June 20, 2013, 09:42:45 PM

I've read Euros can be withdrawn just fine and quickly? Is it is true how does that fit with the automated wire transfer system outage? Wouldn't they be processed by the same system?

Let me correct you.

I have a request in EUR from 23rd of May... Still no money.

you can read Mt.Gox support's bullshit over here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2542142

Delerium

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Please see latest MtGox announcement about this:

https://www.facebook.com/MtGox/posts/484532824964463?_fb_noscript=1

Delerium

EuroTrash

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Quote from: samson on June 21, 2013, 08:02:58 AM

I was just reading about the SWIFT (international wire) system and read something very alarming :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT#US_Control_over_Transactions_within_the_European_Union

Quote

US Control over Transactions within the European Union

On 26 February 2012 the Danish newspaper Berlingske reported that US authorities evidently have sufficient control over SWIFT to seize money being transferred between two EU countries (Denmark and Germany), since they have seized around U$26,000 which were being transferred from a Danish to a German bank. The money was a payment by a Danish businessman for a batch of Cuban cigars previously imported to Germany by a German supplier. As justification for the seizure, the U.S. Treasury has stated that the Danish businessman has violated the United States embargo against Cuba.[23]

WTF ! If the US decides to go after Bitcoin in a big and more covert way then they ~~could~~ are disrupting transactions which go nowhere near a US bank.

I corrected your spelling Wink

we know bitcoin was created to empower people to transfer money without governments and banks involved.
They are not the kind of people who state their intentions in the open.
I expect them to lose that war in the long run. But not without a massive dirty fight.

As for Gox I think their days are counted. Gox and BTC, compare to Napster and MP3.

samson

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Quote from: EuroTrash on June 21, 2013, 07:54:53 AM

Quote from: neuronics on June 21, 2013, 07:00:30 AM

Looking like big US players are blocking $$ transfer. We are not really surprised, aren`t we ? Hope Mt. Gox will find solutions to circumvent the hiatus. It would be interesting what Citibanks "internal guidelines" are stating.

First of all this is very helpful. Thanks for the useful information. It clears out some BS from Gox and makes us understand that the banks are playing dirty.

Second you are in Switzerland but still your transfers from Japan do not get through - which means that there are US banks involved in the Swift transfer (the ones you mentioned) and they are (likely illegally) performing a blockade.
Go sue them. Good luck Sad

I was just reading about the SWIFT (international wire) system and read something very alarming :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT#US_Control_over_Transactions_within_the_European_Union

Quote

US Control over Transactions within the European Union

On 26 February 2012 the Danish newspaper Berlingske reported that US authorities evidently have sufficient control over SWIFT to seize money being transferred between two EU countries (Denmark and Germany), since they have seized around U$26,000 which were being transferred from a Danish to a German bank. The money was a payment by a Danish businessman for a batch of Cuban cigars previously imported to Germany by a German supplier. As justification for the seizure, the U.S. Treasury has stated that the Danish businessman has violated the United States embargo against Cuba.[23]

WTF ! If the US decides to go after Bitcoin in a big and more overt way then they could disrupt transactions which go nowhere near a US bank.

Topic: MtGox wires ARE delayed - page 2. (Read 14537 times)