Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 162. (Read 908613 times)

lol in a manner of speaking. So be it. Well said.

LOL you think that my saying I'm a software engineer that it implies I am a VB programmer? LOL of course once again you would assume the worst to try to discredit your opposition.

I'm much more well versed in other programming languages than VB. VB is for noobs in my view.

Sturle if you knew anything about my rep as being smoothie on these forums is that of calling peoples'/businesses' BS out. Obviously the recent actions and statements from MTGOX are bullshit.

They played with me all this time compounding my losses (premium going up). Finally I was in the understanding that I can only withdraw EUR 10,000 per 20 days, which in reality is about 80,000 per year IF the situation does not get worse. Considering that it was constantly and rapidly getting worse (as evidenced by the premium to BS widening rapidly in 25-26), and in my evaluation 25% would trigger a full panic, I pre-empted at 23%. The panic came later same day.

Now, listen: The only thing that stopped Gox dollars from becoming worthless that day was the escalation of BTC withdrawal difficulties. As goxBTC becomes endangered also, their ratio can better be manipulated (both are at the mercy of the puppetmasters). I don't know which is the cause and which is the effect of these. But bank run followed.

Fuck you.

I like your style  

Not automatically, no.  Any VB programmer can call herself "software engineer".  Perhaps you are capable of understanding what has been happening if you try, but you don't.  You don't even make an attempt.  Your only interest is the spreading of FUD.  And if it is true that you don't make money on it, I can honestly not understand what drives you to waste your time and energy.

I dislike market manipulation by spreading of false rumours and passing of speculation as a fact, and try to correct it by presenting the most accurate information I can find.  That's my motivation.

You were personally aware of my case. Is there something you would have done otherwise? How much do the Gox owe me now after one month of time wasted + $150k in costs? Apparently nothing, since you are so smart to be on the other side of the trade.


Which is pure and unadulterated hogwash. During my effort to get something out from the shithole, the situation got constantly more difficult, and the system started to work strangely. How do you explain for example this. data.

When trying to get out, I needed to buy bitcoins. There was 700 bitcoins offered until $982, which was a reasonable 0.6% slippage from the current price which was in the verge of a full-blown panic (23% over BS). At 9:57 I enter a market order to buy 700 bitcoins. The goxlag is about 2 minutes, after which I learn that I only get like 470 bitcoins. Where did the rest go? I made about 4% extra loss by purchasing them later when the price was higher. Needless to say, my turnover in exchanges in 2013 was in the $10,000,000s and I have executed quite a few market orders (almost 10,000 trades totally) and NEVER experienced such a trick.


Are you so distanced from reality that you don't even realize that using insider information (such as timing of refills in the instance when others cannot get their money out, and then selling the very coins withdrawn to the very customers who cannot withdraw due to their lack of said insider information) IS A CRIME.

Choose one: You get proprietary information from Mt.Gox technical workings, transfer to yourself the money that supposedly was there for everyone, and sell it for profit to the actual recipients. [] FRAUD [] NOT FRAUD.

Mt.Gox: You better destroy your archives quickly, for otherwise all your co-conspirators will get crushed when the LE is upon this. Fuck you.
NSA/FBI/KGB/CIA: If the said exchange is under your control and Mark is held hostage, fuck you.
Sturle: Fuck you.

Yes, you wrote "time is not critical".  I had two suggestions depending on how time critical it was.  If time was critical, I would have offered one more suggestion.  Then time suddenly got critical, or what triggered your IMHO irrational behaviour?  You will get your BTC, and you could have got your USD or EUR as well if time was not critical.  I hope you withdrew at least some via SEPA?

Someone's got an ego problem. No one is right every time. Simple fact.

I guess being a software engineer by trade doesn't make me a technical person now does it? lol  

By your logic spinning things to make MTGOX look better than it is would be considered being "right" eh?

I can fully understand the frustration of people who can't get to their money.  Claiming they don't have the BTC, and asking for total irresponsible behaviour to "prove" they have the BTC, is 100% idiocy.

We all know that this technical glitch has all the signs of a technical glitch, and absolutely no signs of MtGox being out of BTC.  In fact they filled up their hot wallet several times during last week, as you could see by withdrawals suddenly working well for a short while, using very old inputs, until they started failing because the old spent inputs came back on top of the list (sorted by age).  I took the opportunity to withdraw just after refill, and got myself a new round of profit by buying MtGox BTC at a discount with BTC I withdrew from MtGox.  You will know they are going to refill within 2 hours of withdrawals to external addresses starting to fail with "invalid address".  (Withdrawal to MtGox deposit addresses still work when the hot wallet is empty.)

You are obviously not a technical or scientific person.  You rely on belief and rumour instead of facts and logic.  I am a technical person.  I dig into the real matters, investigating what holds water and what is just empty rumours.  That's why I am right every time.

"The MtGox Debacle Explained from Reddit post by datavetaren

Currently, there's too much Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

TL;DR version:

1) The withdrawal problems at MtGox are technical. 2) It is likely that a hacker exploit has taken place. 3) Any damage is likely to be limited. 4) Other exchanges need a heads up and could also be vulnerable. 5) MtGox is going through all erroneous transactions and will update all balances. This is the reason why BTC withdrawals are frozen. 6) Countermeasures need to be taken (for all exchanges)
BTC Withdrawal Problems

A couple of weeks ago (around January 26-28) I noticed that things at MtGox were not the way it supposed to be. Normally, withdrawing BTC is an instant process. This time my withdrawals went stuck. MtGox provides an API so that transactions that didn't get through were available for public scrutiny: https://data.mtgox.com/api/0/bitcoin_tx.php. I took my stuck transactions which were available in raw format and try to rebroadcast them manually. (MtGox no longer publishes the raw format; they are now redacted for a very good reason.) To my surprise it complained that some of the transaction inputs were already spent. Furthermore, this happened to many of my friends as well. I investigated their transactions as well and tried to rebroadcast them manually, but without luck due to complaints of double spending. My immediate (now wrong) conclusion was that MtGox F-d up big time and couldn't handle a simple concurrency problem. If several people are withdrawing BTC at the same time it is important to ensure that this is counted as an atomic operation so that coins from the wallet pool are not double spent. It turns out that it was much more interesting than I've first anticipated. Another (wrong) conspiracy theory of mine that MtGox did this intentionally to cover up the fact that they were running low on BTC as they use "fractional reserve bitcoin".
Exchanges and Custom Wallet Software

Most exchanges have completely custom bitcoin software. Either they are heavily modified source code of the official client, or everything is written from scratch. To my best knowledge MtGox has written their client completely from scratch. Some people critize them for that, but the standard client is not scalable to an exchange with a million of customers. You must modify the original source so at least the wallet part is going through a more suitable database, and also the built-in security only works for a single customer. The cons with writing your own custom bitcoin client are of course that you would from time to time become out of sync with the official client. It turns out that this is very problematic.
Erroneous Transactions and Fatal Consequences

Suppose there's something that is inconsistent with MtGox client software with the rest of the bitcoin network. What would be the outcome of that? MtGox would broadcast the transaction to the bitcoin network and miners would reject it, so the transaction becomes stuck. After a couple of days, MtGox gives up because it can't get the transaction published in the blockchain so it returns the balance to the customer. This turns out to be VERY dangerous. BTC should not be returned to a customer without proper investigation. You may ask why? A hacker can exploit the erroneous transactions broadcasted by MtGox by modifying them manually (so they become consistent with the official bitcoin software) and then rebroadcast them manually her/him-self. If this happens, then the stuck transaction (at MtGox) gets actually through and at the same time the balance is returned to the customer's account. Therefore, the customer has doubled her/his BTC withdrawal attempt. If you repeat this process a couple of times then you can empty MtGox BTC vault without having to hack into their computers. So what about all those erroneous transactions with "double spending", surely this has nothing to do with the erroneous transactions mentioned recently? At the time the hacker broadcasts the modified (correct) transaction based on MtGox erroneous one, the transaction gets through, but MtGox still thinks the coins are still unspent. After all, it is only MtGox that has the private keys, so it is impossible (in general) that someone else can spend them. Therefore, MtGox still thinks those coins are unspent and trying to reuse them as fresh coins for other transactions. This explains why we had so many transactions that tried to double spend coins.
What is MtGox Doing Now?

First, the hackers that tried to modify the erroneous transactions and rebroadcast them manually are likely identified (MtGox surely knows the name of every customer). Their accounts will likely to be frozen. Second, MtGox has an accounting mess to clean up. There are many transactions registered as unsuccessful at MtGox that need to be checked whether they actually went through or not. Then MtGox needs to update all the BTC balances. This will likely take a couple of days and this is the main reason why all BTC withdrawals are blocked at this time. Once this is done MtGox will open for BTC withdrawals again.
Lessons Learned and Countermeasures

What happened at MtGox can happen at other exchanges as well. So how do we prevent these disasters from happening again in future? I have some proposals, 1) Try to stay close to the official bitcoin client and merge in new changes as soon as possible. Stay updated. 2) Bitcoin Foundation could setup some public servers that always run the latest official version of the bitcoin client. Exchanges should then be able to verify that the transaction is legitimate to the latest bitcoin client before broadcasting them. 3) At an exchange, when a transaction becomes stuck for whatever reason, always check if some other transaction with the same inputs and outputs has already been accepted by the network before returning the customers' balance."


Another technical explanation.

+1 Mr. Sturle lacks logic when it comes to customers being fucked over in all of MTGOX's short comings. And myself being also called an idiot by him shows his lack of understanding of what customers should be able to do.

Right now there is no excuse he can make for MTGOX that would legitimize the fact that they have fucked up. Sturle is obviously a shill who has an interest in MTGOX surviving otherwise he wouldn't spend quite so much time here trying to sprinkle surgar on all of the crap that MTGOX has made apparent due to their incompetent ability to run an exchange in a way that is USABLE in ALL ways an exchange should be. Yes I am referring to all of the withdrawal problems and now halting of them as well as past actions.

I will continue to call things how I see it in an unbias way as I have $0 and 0 BTC at risk if MTGOX goes belly up.

Such a great manipulator and idiot I am to have 0 at risk but having an agenda aside from exposing the truth and calling MTGOX for what it is (LOL), essentially a SHIT exchange.

It was requested December 02 - 2013

Mt.Gox inactions are below every standard, and it is 100% them who are to blame. The customers have every right to expect that the "market leader" functions at least as well as the fly-by-night exchanges. Instead of calling long-standing forum members like me "useful idiots", you do well to consider the above and following points.

I sent you PM several weeks ago asking what could be the best way to get money out of Gox. In Jan 26, full 14 days ago and after long time of useless correspondence with their customer service, I decided that enough is enough, and converted $800k to BTC at top markup, triggering the panic rally to >1,000. Then the withdrawals were already dysfunctional and I could get only about 55% out, the process being the main joy of my life 24/7 for more than a week. The rest I estimated that I better sell at an average price of 83% than leave them there.

Listen now, smartass: That people need their money that the service is obligated to give them upon request, does not make them idiots. I am fully aware that I have lost $150k in the debacle, am I an idiot? For every seller there is a buyer, and somebody is now enjoying my money. I have nothing against people who do honest arbitrage (I do, myself) but manufacturing (or: not fixing by criminal negligence) technical problems and causing unforeseen and unbearable difficulties to your customers, and then offering an extortionate solution, is despicable, loathsome, hateful, spiteful, detestable and abominable.


Now, I take a risk. I did not even wait 7 days to get my goods out, since I think the 83% odds were on my side. If Mt.Gox gets everything done so that everybody who wants (perhaps somebody has not heard about this or is dead or whatever and thus does not want) his coins out, he can get them, on Monday, then Mt.Gox and its principals are still despicable, loathsome, hateful, spiteful, detestable and abominable (old crimes are not forgiven just because switch has been turned ON for a time), but in addition I am a fool and an idiot. I should be better connected to know exactly every BTC bank where to keep even a tiny bit of my stash. (There is a reason why I own Silverbank.)

I alread read that, (even if i didn't know that i was reading gmaxwell), and i really don't see anything conclusive... Yes, there were problems back in September, i was a victim of one of those, and yes, they are all valid points... Yet there is no proof.

gmaxwell has a big courage at buying MtGox's BTC at 0.9.

The deadline is tomorrow, let's see what happens.

Im waiting one sepa since 29th. Ill keep you posted

Here.  (nullc aka gmaxwell)

It's not oblivious at all to me.
Could you please point me to the right direction?

If MtGox started treating their cold storage irresponsibly like that, I would be out in a puff.  This is obviously a technical glitch – all evidence points to a technical problem – and MtGox should fix the problem instead of throwing cold wallets around.  There is a bitcoin core developer in  #mtgox-chat right now buying MtGox BTC at 90% of face value.  Because people who knows how bitcoin works under the hood can easily see this is a technical glitch and nothing else.  Of course you will find manipulators like you spreading FUD and offering much worse rates in the same channel.  (And useful idiots who are helping the manipulators spreding FUD, while stupid enough to not take the profit from people who run into their trap.)

Well Savior said that he received Eur at 15 Jan and 4 Feb which i doubt because it's second transfer should be confirmed after 15 Jan , and has we know several people had confirmed sepa from earlier, me included, and nothing yet.

Savior : if o see this post tell us when did ask your 4 Feb transfer .
tks

Good luck to all

can we please come back to the topic of the post please?
as we know BTC withdrawal are suspended, and today probably will have some news.
what about fiat currencies? when is the last processed withdrawal for EUR/USD/JPY ?