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Topic: NA - page 351. (Read 893613 times)

legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 08, 2014, 03:43:36 PM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley

Alright the announcement has been delayed until tomorrow.

I can give more details though, it's a offline merchant Smiley

Curious what kind of offline merchant it is  Smiley

Place your bets!!!

My guess: Sushi bar or Pizzaria!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 03:23:55 PM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley

Alright the announcement has been delayed until tomorrow.

I can give more details though, it's a offline merchant Smiley

Curious what kind of offline merchant it is  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 02:37:59 PM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley

Alright the announcement has been delayed until tomorrow.

I can give more details though, it's a offline merchant Smiley

i'm very curious

http://com-http.us/coins/nlg   offline
legendary
Activity: 1023
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
December 08, 2014, 01:46:14 PM
HEY! Suspense is my thing mate!  Wink Grin
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 01:43:37 PM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley

Alright the announcement has been delayed until tomorrow.

I can give more details though, it's a offline merchant Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
0x0a.nl operator
December 08, 2014, 01:03:32 PM
To the miner at http://guldenpool.nl:27100 with address Gdx6V8BsBZ79LMQoNjLQ6Ta9q1hzbVgF5h (I feel like I should know who this is.. and hope you're here to read this), please correct your miners; they're adding postfixes to your username/address, i.e. Gdx6V8BsBZ79LMQoNjLQ6Ta9q1hzbVgF5h.10, .11, etc. Unfortunately p2pool does not parse the username as an address with these postfixes, so instead it acts as if it is a regular worker name, meaning that all the NLG ends up in the 'default account', which is my fee address. Please get in touch as soon as you can!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 11:02:01 AM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley

Smiley
------------------------------------------------------

@ Biomike: You can make your votes also here for GJ on bct: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855130.920 (add this ANN + reason why)
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 10:51:28 AM
11 VOTES? that could be much better
Vote Geert Johan – Proof of Honor 2014!
http://www.coinssource.com/vote-geert

Need FB or Twitter for that? Lame.

i now thats stupid
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 08, 2014, 10:47:25 AM
11 VOTES? that could be much better
Vote Geert Johan – Proof of Honor 2014!
http://www.coinssource.com/vote-geert

Need FB or Twitter for that? Lame.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 10:39:40 AM
11 VOTES? that could be much better
Vote Geert Johan – Proof of Honor 2014!
http://www.coinssource.com/vote-geert
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 10:20:01 AM
Team will have an announcement tonight. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 08, 2014, 07:18:02 AM
So when the change was made from KGW to DGW3 (around block 124000) we start seeing clever solve REALLY low difficulty blocks.. because as you point out, DGW3 makes very extreme changes to the difficulty.  

Here is where I kind of disagree and am hoping others can step in and shed some light.  In my opinion, the algorithm should have nothing to do with profitability.  The market will determine that.  Notice how the MAX difficulty of the blocks clever solves is tightly correlated to the bittrex NLG price? That is no coincidence.  The super-low difficulty blocks are just a bonus.  The miners are the ones who should be worried about profitability, not the algorithm.. Assuming the new algorithm allows dedicated miners to get their fair share of the rewards (right now clever is robbing them, so they go elsewhere) I would expect miners to come back to NLG.  In a fair market (no massive jump pools influences), demand drives price, price drives mining hashrate.  IE: If there is demand for the NLG, the price goes up and this will attract new miners to NLG.. thus the hashrate goes up as those miners compete for the coins to sell.  

I'll try to create another chart soon through december 1.. maybe this time with clever solved blocks as blue, everyone else's solved blocks as orange.  I expect to see 2 things.  Orange on average will be higher than blue..  and bioMike's efforts over the past month will drastically reduce the difference between the highs and the lows.  If we then add a secondary axis charting a block gap moving average, we should see the strong correlation you describe between a tighter difficulty range and lower block gaps.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I think I've gotten a little carried away Smiley --Mark

Markanth, great post, mate.

I just wanted to clarify something in terms of the bolded sentances above.

With regards to clever, the algo change is specifically about profit.  We need to limit the period of mining profitability and we need to do it faster than we currently do.  It is a profits game for them, so we need to take that away from them.

I like your graphs, but I'm not sure if you're looking at them correctly.  The correlation between difficulty and price might be getting skewed, if I'm reading your post correctly.  Correct me if I'm wrong(it's 4am and the baby is fussy).  The reason you're seeing a direct correlation is because clever is causing it.  Clever isn't a traditional miner that stores their coins and spends a little here and there.  They instadump their coins for BTC/LTC.  I'd suspect you'd see a trailing correlation if you took a closer look.  Clever mines a super low series of blocks, and then the price drops shortly after.  Price isn't driving difficulty in our case right now, but rather difficulty driving price.  Clever mines easy blocks, clever sells easy blocks.  If it wasn't for the dedicated miners propping up the nethash, clever would probably own the whole chain and the price would be much lower than it is now.  You are 100% correct though that in a free market environment, price would drive difficulty via more dedicated miners.  We just aren't in a free market right now.

I would suspect you are correct with the orange/blue observation.  The bottom of that graph would be very blue.  If you have the time, please chart it.  Anyone else could as well.  You just need two data sets, one for clever's blocks, and one for everyone else.

-Fuse

legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 04:51:40 AM

This is a good tweet actually  Smiley

Ignore the other one, they hope to get other coin users to buy their coin.  Wink  Stupid tweets of them. They mention a lot of other coins to sell as well on other tweets. I will never buy marinecoin with such tweets  Cheesy

Bram, don't bother too much, about fud. You are sensitive for that. Compensate with positive or leave the negativ behind.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 08, 2014, 04:48:51 AM

The super-low difficulty blocks are just a bonus.  The miners are the ones who should be worried about profitability, not the algorithm..
          

See how Clever finds way more blocks since the algo change then before, compared with even higher pricelevels in the past. Those low dif blocks are a bonus indeed for Clever, but in general they get more blocks also, because big miners have left, because of lower profits, due to the GH/s swings of Clever. And that is caused by the algorithm that Clever can abuse for their profit, that big miners have left. Now Biomike compensates, but with a good algo big miners will come back, because Clever can't abuse it anymore in their favor. This algo atm is helping Clever and that is no good in two ways: Big swings in diff and big dedicated miners left because of that.

With KGW there where swings as well, but that had most to do with pricechanges and profitability. Maybe GH/s swings also by Clever already then. but big dedicated miners where still in though at that time. With a new good algo they will come back.



legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 08, 2014, 03:57:32 AM
Markanth, thank you for your insight. I like the graphs. You can already see my effords in here, also the period where I needed to stop for some time. My point was always to raise the lows.
full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 100
December 08, 2014, 02:59:08 AM
Question about effects of hashrate on blockgaps.  So we currently have about 5 GigaHash of dedicated mining of NLG.. and theoretically clever can jump in when the difficulty is low with up to 320 GigaHash to mine some quick blocks although last communication from Terk said they were only dedicating 1/8 of their hash power .  

Based on above, on a test net, if the dedicated steady hashrate is 5MegaHash can we see the same effects that clever has on the chain by jumping in on low blocks with 320MegaHash?  I understand the difficulty would be totally different but the behavior of the algorithm would be the same no?

Hoping someone can educate me Smiley  --Mark

The problem with the current algo is that it overshoots the "sweet spot" on profitability vs difficulty.  Regardless of how much hashrate clever throws at NLG, if that sweet spot is reached faster, and it isn't overshot to the point of our current difficulty swings, we're good.  The problem with DGW3 is that it takes longer to retarget to the sweet spot, and then you have 5-10 blocks that are too low in difficulty, so the algorithm overshoots the sweet spot by leaps and bounds.  It leaves us in the 1000 difficulty range and we struggle to find the next block.  So it takes forever and a day, and then the difficulty plummets way below the sweet spot, rinse/repeat.  Hashrate aside, the problem we need to solve is making the difficulty reach that sweet spot without overshooting or taking to long, and then keeping it there.  I know I'm beating a dead horse, but our DIGI tests have done that.  However, to truly test it's effectiveness, we need a profitability algo like clever uses so we can see the jump in and out.  Or a really smart community member that could provide some advanced math on profitability so we could guess at in and out points.

-Fuse

From my point of view.. yes and no.. see graph below.. The main graph is the difficulty of every block clevermining has solved between August 17th (when clever started with NLG) and October 31st. (old graph).  x-axis: block number, y-axis: difficulty.   The small graph in the upper right corner is the bittrex NLG price for the same time period.  



So when the change was made from KGW to DGW3 (around block 124000) we start seeing clever solve REALLY low difficulty blocks.. because as you point out, DGW3 makes very extreme changes to the difficulty.  

Here is where I kind of disagree and am hoping others can step in and shed some light.  In my opinion, the algorithm should have nothing to do with profitability.  The market will determine that.  Notice how the MAX difficulty of the blocks clever solves is tightly correlated to the bittrex NLG price? That is no coincidence.  The super-low difficulty blocks are just a bonus.  The miners are the ones who should be worried about profitability, not the algorithm.. Assuming the new algorithm allows dedicated miners to get their fair share of the rewards (right now clever is robbing them, so they go elsewhere) I would expect miners to come back to NLG.  In a fair market (no massive jump pools influences), demand drives price, price drives mining hashrate.  IE: If there is demand for the NLG, the price goes up and this will attract new miners to NLG.. thus the hashrate goes up as those miners compete for the coins to sell.  

I'll try to create another chart soon through december 1.. maybe this time with clever solved blocks as blue, everyone else's solved blocks as orange.  I expect to see 2 things.  Orange on average will be higher than blue..  and bioMike's efforts over the past month will drastically reduce the difference between the highs and the lows.  If we then add a secondary axis charting a block gap moving average, we should see the strong correlation you describe between a tighter difficulty range and lower block gaps.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I think I've gotten a little carried away Smiley --Mark

          
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
@halofirebtc
December 07, 2014, 08:28:24 PM
Ah ok, Thanks Fuse.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 07, 2014, 08:19:23 PM
Question about effects of hashrate on blockgaps.  So we currently have about 5 GigaHash of dedicated mining of NLG.. and theoretically clever can jump in when the difficulty is low with up to 320 GigaHash to mine some quick blocks although last communication from Terk said they were only dedicating 1/8 of their hash power .  

Based on above, on a test net, if the dedicated steady hashrate is 5MegaHash can we see the same effects that clever has on the chain by jumping in on low blocks with 320MegaHash?  I understand the difficulty would be totally different but the behavior of the algorithm would be the same no?

Hoping someone can educate me Smiley  --Mark

5GH? I've always seen it between 8 and 12GH pre-DGW3 and post-DGW3 . Hardcoreminers reports as such, as well.
Current "Getmininginfo": "networkhashps" : 10754201215 or 10.7GH.
Am I missing something? I know that the numbers are not 100% true, but for it to be 50% of getmininginfo actuals?
Educate me as well, please Smiley

I think he was referring to the portion of the network that isn't clever.

-Fuse
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