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Topic: NA - page 352. (Read 893613 times)

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
@halofirebtc
December 07, 2014, 07:16:50 PM
Question about effects of hashrate on blockgaps.  So we currently have about 5 GigaHash of dedicated mining of NLG.. and theoretically clever can jump in when the difficulty is low with up to 320 GigaHash to mine some quick blocks although last communication from Terk said they were only dedicating 1/8 of their hash power .  

Based on above, on a test net, if the dedicated steady hashrate is 5MegaHash can we see the same effects that clever has on the chain by jumping in on low blocks with 320MegaHash?  I understand the difficulty would be totally different but the behavior of the algorithm would be the same no?

Hoping someone can educate me Smiley  --Mark

5GH? I've always seen it between 8 and 12GH pre-DGW3 and post-DGW3 . Hardcoreminers reports as such, as well.
Current "Getmininginfo": "networkhashps" : 10754201215 or 10.7GH.
Am I missing something? I know that the numbers are not 100% true, but for it to be 50% of getmininginfo actuals?
Educate me as well, please Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 07, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
NOMP pool software claims clever uses their software (I guess with their switching algo's).
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 07, 2014, 05:08:42 PM
Question about effects of hashrate on blockgaps.  So we currently have about 5 GigaHash of dedicated mining of NLG.. and theoretically clever can jump in when the difficulty is low with up to 320 GigaHash to mine some quick blocks although last communication from Terk said they were only dedicating 1/8 of their hash power .   

Based on above, on a test net, if the dedicated steady hashrate is 5MegaHash can we see the same effects that clever has on the chain by jumping in on low blocks with 320MegaHash?  I understand the difficulty would be totally different but the behavior of the algorithm would be the same no?

Hoping someone can educate me Smiley  --Mark

The problem with the current algo is that it overshoots the "sweet spot" on profitability vs difficulty.  Regardless of how much hashrate clever throws at NLG, if that sweet spot is reached faster, and it isn't overshot to the point of our current difficulty swings, we're good.  The problem with DGW3 is that it takes longer to retarget to the sweet spot, and then you have 5-10 blocks that are too low in difficulty, so the algorithm overshoots the sweet spot by leaps and bounds.  It leaves us in the 1000 difficulty range and we struggle to find the next block.  So it takes forever and a day, and then the difficulty plummets way below the sweet spot, rinse/repeat.  Hashrate aside, the problem we need to solve is making the difficulty reach that sweet spot without overshooting or taking to long, and then keeping it there.  I know I'm beating a dead horse, but our DIGI tests have done that.  However, to truly test it's effectiveness, we need a profitability algo like clever uses so we can see the jump in and out.  Or a really smart community member that could provide some advanced math on profitability so we could guess at in and out points.

-Fuse
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 07, 2014, 04:46:58 PM
Damnit, /GJ... making me learn GO. lol

Let me see if I can figure this out.

-Fuse

If it is funds you need to hire a dev to do this... count me in.
full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 100
December 07, 2014, 04:40:03 PM
Question about effects of hashrate on blockgaps.  So we currently have about 5 GigaHash of dedicated mining of NLG.. and theoretically clever can jump in when the difficulty is low with up to 320 GigaHash to mine some quick blocks although last communication from Terk said they were only dedicating 1/8 of their hash power .   

Based on above, on a test net, if the dedicated steady hashrate is 5MegaHash can we see the same effects that clever has on the chain by jumping in on low blocks with 320MegaHash?  I understand the difficulty would be totally different but the behavior of the algorithm would be the same no?

Hoping someone can educate me Smiley  --Mark
sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 07, 2014, 03:47:07 PM
Damnit, /GJ... making me learn GO. lol

Let me see if I can figure this out.

-Fuse

Awesome! Let me know if you need any help.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 07, 2014, 03:24:38 PM
Damnit, /GJ... making me learn GO. lol

Let me see if I can figure this out.

-Fuse
sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 07, 2014, 03:15:00 PM
This sounds great, but if we're going to do a new algo change, I think it's best to have proof.
With proof I mean: maths. Input/output of the algorithm calculation. Throwing of 320GH/s (the amount of hashing power that cleverminig currently has).
This is not something that can be tested in a test network, unless you happen to have 320GH/s at your disposal..
When the sim is released, it will be very easy to add another algorithm such as digishield.


First and foremost, everything I bring up is with the utmost respect.  When I lose faith in the team, the community will know it because I will flat out say it.  I am primarily posting this because I feel lost in trying to help this coin, and I want guidance.

That being said, the problem with your math is that clever will never throw 320GH at NLG.  If they were going to increase their mining it would be because NLG mining is profitable.  If NLG mining is profitable, we'll have more miners, and we'll have a higher difficulty.  Mining is all about proportions.  Clever will never increase their proportion if it's not profitable.  If they did, our proportion would probably increase as well.  But you forget something, too.  Clever won't stick around if they are cut off the chain with an algo change.  If you limit the number of blocks clever can mine before it pushes profitability out of reach, which DGW3 doesn't do, you shut clever down.  1000GH won't mean anything if you only get 3 blocks before it shuts down your profitability.  Also, throwing 320GH at NLG is basically saying that every other coin, including LTC are inferior to NLG at that point, and I'm pretty sure we'll have a lot more on our plate than clever at that point.  Think terahashes.  But at that point, you could implement a standard LTC algo and call it a day.

Anyone with enough hashpower can disrupt a blockchain.  That's a fundamental flaw with mining.  24Kilo and I almost burnt each others houses down in a heated argument over this.  Hashrate is king.  No algo change is going to change that.  The only way you could change that is implementing code that said that only X amount of blocks can be mined from a certain address in a certain amount of time, which is back to the centralized mining debate.  The other approach is POS, and that's a crap-shoot at best.  I've never seen a POS coin that didn't have forking issues, or even worse.  So yes, 320GH is a big scary monster that can trample our town like Godzilla on a Sunday stroll through the park.  However, that 320GH is governed by profit, and an algo change like DIGI would minimize that profit in a single git pull.

There is at least a year of data that can be mined from various coins that made algo changes.  There's testnet data that can be put together.  There's enough information out there that could be used to make an educated decision.  My question is what is it that the dev team wants?

If you want a 320GH testnet, then tell the community you want it, and we'll work on it.  If that's what it's going to take to convince the team of a proposed change, we need to know that.  We're flying blind here, mate.  We need input as to what direction to go to better support you and your team.

-Fuse


Hey,

You're making good point here. I understand that we need change, but I simply don't want to make the same mistakes with a new algo.
Just reading the code and performing simple tests simple isn't enough..

The sim is very close to being finished. If you want to help, please go ahead and start converting digishield from C to Go for the simulator. It's not very hard to do for anyone with code experience.
The algorithm must comply to a Go "interface" that is defined like this: https://gist.github.com/GeertJohan/46c30b7d8124476ef100

It would help A LOT if the digi is converted to Go so maybe we can have this at launch time in the simulator, and then we CAN throw 320GH/s at it without even having 320GH/s Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 07, 2014, 02:52:06 PM
This sounds great, but if we're going to do a new algo change, I think it's best to have proof.
With proof I mean: maths. Input/output of the algorithm calculation. Throwing of 320GH/s (the amount of hashing power that cleverminig currently has).
This is not something that can be tested in a test network, unless you happen to have 320GH/s at your disposal..
When the sim is released, it will be very easy to add another algorithm such as digishield.


First and foremost, everything I bring up is with the utmost respect.  When I lose faith in the team, the community will know it because I will flat out say it.  I am primarily posting this because I feel lost in trying to help this coin, and I want guidance.

That being said, the problem with your math is that clever will never throw 320GH at NLG.  If they were going to increase their mining it would be because NLG mining is profitable.  If NLG mining is profitable, we'll have more miners, and we'll have a higher difficulty.  Mining is all about proportions.  Clever will never increase their proportion if it's not profitable.  If they did, our proportion would probably increase as well.  But you forget something, too.  Clever won't stick around if they are cut off the chain with an algo change.  If you limit the number of blocks clever can mine before it pushes profitability out of reach, which DGW3 doesn't do, you shut clever down.  1000GH won't mean anything if you only get 3 blocks before it shuts down your profitability.  Also, throwing 320GH at NLG is basically saying that every other coin, including LTC are inferior to NLG at that point, and I'm pretty sure we'll have a lot more on our plate than clever at that point.  Think terahashes.  But at that point, you could implement a standard LTC algo and call it a day.

Anyone with enough hashpower can disrupt a blockchain.  That's a fundamental flaw with mining.  24Kilo and I almost burnt each others houses down in a heated argument over this.  Hashrate is king.  No algo change is going to change that.  The only way you could change that is implementing code that said that only X amount of blocks can be mined from a certain address in a certain amount of time, which is back to the centralized mining debate.  The other approach is POS, and that's a crap-shoot at best.  I've never seen a POS coin that didn't have forking issues, or even worse.  So yes, 320GH is a big scary monster that can trample our town like Godzilla on a Sunday stroll through the park.  However, that 320GH is governed by profit, and an algo change like DIGI would minimize that profit in a single git pull.

There is at least a year of data that can be mined from various coins that made algo changes.  There's testnet data that can be put together.  There's enough information out there that could be used to make an educated decision.  My question is what is it that the dev team wants?

If you want a 320GH testnet, then tell the community you want it, and we'll work on it.  If that's what it's going to take to convince the team of a proposed change, we need to know that.  We're flying blind here, mate.  We need input as to what direction to go to better support you and your team.

-Fuse

sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 07, 2014, 02:21:57 PM
to all the guldencoin lovers have a good weekend!

CONGRATZ Fuse!!  Cool Cool i was forget that

Congratulations on your second daughter Fuse!

On the mining front it looks like clevermining is now under 50% at these prices. Also buyers will come back once the simulator and algorithm change takes place, it looks as though the market is starting
to feel this is only going to take place next year.

I also cannot with a good conscience vote for /GeertJohan until the simulator has been completed so hopefully that happens this month. Smiley

I thought investeerder was a bit of a asshole but looks like he will be right and all of us wrong. Sad I don't think it's a big deal that we have to wait until next year for the simulator and algorithm change if the price stays as is, it's just a major issue if it goes over 500.

No... I think your first impression was probably right.  The simulator and the algorithm change aren't mutually exclusive.  So even if /GJ can't finish the simulator before next year, we could still push forward with an algorithm change.  Like I mentioned previously, my team has tested DIGI on a testnet and it performs very well.  We made a slight change to accommodate the longer block times, but it performs much better than the current DGW3 implementation.  I could put up a git pull request right now and we could move forward.  But that's not up to me.

We need the dev team to back a change.  The simulator will only take us so far, and from what /GJ said, it seems like it's hard programmed to only do traditional and DGW3 algos in the first release.  IMO, we already know what that looks like.  Other algorithms should be the focus... not what we already know doesn't work.  This is why my team went ahead and decided to do independent testing.  We need a solution to the problem at hand.  If the dev team wants to make a change to DIGI, I'm sure all of this clever nonsense would be behind us and we could move on with bigger and better things.  If they don't want DIGI, we need a clear indication of what expectations are, and my team will continue to test solutions.

We can lead a horse to water...

-Fuse

This sounds great, but if we're going to do a new algo change, I think it's best to have proof.
With proof I mean: maths. Input/output of the algorithm calculation. Throwing of 320GH/s (the amount of hashing power that cleverminig currently has).
This is not something that can be tested in a test network, unless you happen to have 320GH/s at your disposal..
When the sim is released, it will be very easy to add another algorithm such as digishield.

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 07, 2014, 01:44:13 PM
to all the guldencoin lovers have a good weekend!

CONGRATZ Fuse!!  Cool Cool i was forget that

Congratulations on your second daughter Fuse!

On the mining front it looks like clevermining is now under 50% at these prices. Also buyers will come back once the simulator and algorithm change takes place, it looks as though the market is starting
to feel this is only going to take place next year.

I also cannot with a good conscience vote for /GeertJohan until the simulator has been completed so hopefully that happens this month. Smiley

I thought investeerder was a bit of a asshole but looks like he will be right and all of us wrong. Sad I don't think it's a big deal that we have to wait until next year for the simulator and algorithm change if the price stays as is, it's just a major issue if it goes over 500.

No... I think your first impression was probably right.  The simulator and the algorithm change aren't mutually exclusive.  So even if /GJ can't finish the simulator before next year, we could still push forward with an algorithm change.  Like I mentioned previously, my team has tested DIGI on a testnet and it performs very well.  We made a slight change to accommodate the longer block times, but it performs much better than the current DGW3 implementation.  I could put up a git pull request right now and we could move forward.  But that's not up to me.

We need the dev team to back a change.  The simulator will only take us so far, and from what /GJ said, it seems like it's hard programmed to only do traditional and DGW3 algos in the first release.  IMO, we already know what that looks like.  Other algorithms should be the focus... not what we already know doesn't work.  This is why my team went ahead and decided to do independent testing.  We need a solution to the problem at hand.  If the dev team wants to make a change to DIGI, I'm sure all of this clever nonsense would be behind us and we could move on with bigger and better things.  If they don't want DIGI, we need a clear indication of what expectations are, and my team will continue to test solutions.

We can lead a horse to water...

-Fuse
sr. member
Activity: 880
Merit: 251
Think differently
December 07, 2014, 01:00:32 PM
any of you guys have problems with bittrex? want to buy quite some more for my collection right now before it bursts to 1$  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1197
Merit: 1001
December 07, 2014, 12:49:52 PM
to all the guldencoin lovers have a good weekend!

CONGRATZ Fuse!!  Cool Cool i was forget that

Congratulations on your second daughter Fuse!

On the mining front it looks like clevermining is now under 50% at these prices. Also buyers will come back once the simulator and algorithm change takes place, it looks as though the market is starting
to feel this is only going to take place next year.

I also cannot with a good conscience vote for /GeertJohan until the simulator has been completed so hopefully that happens this month. Smiley

I thought investeerder was a bit of a asshole but looks like he will be right and all of us wrong. Sad I don't think it's a big deal that we have to wait until next year for the simulator and algorithm change if the price stays as is, it's just a major issue if it goes over 500.
sr. member
Activity: 458
Merit: 500
December 06, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
to all the guldencoin lovers have a good weekend!

CONGRATZ Fuse!!  Cool Cool i was forget that

Congratulations on your second daughter Fuse!

On the mining front it looks like clevermining is now under 50% at these prices. Also buyers will come back once the simulator and algorithm change takes place, it looks as though the market is starting
to feel this is only going to take place next year.

I also cannot with a good conscience vote for /GeertJohan until the simulator has been completed so hopefully that happens this month. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
December 06, 2014, 03:51:19 PM
to all the guldencoin lovers have a good weekend!

CONGRATZ Fuse!!  Cool Cool i was forget that
hero member
Activity: 1139
Merit: 500
December 06, 2014, 03:58:33 AM
We did not exclude them because they just take profit of a leak. Same with paying taxes, if there is a way to take profit people will use it.
Also, this is going on for quite a while (a few months) and we're almost at a solution. Some patience is better for now.

Excluding, in what ever way, right now is like running a marathon and quit with only have to go one mile more.


Well off course waiting for the algorithm update is the best solution right now. If think it was a serious solution when this all started. I know from my surroundings some potential investors left Guldencoin because of this. And there will be more who did the same. For me this decreasing price is a great way to buy some more millions, for others it's a sign of an unsteady coin. Most of the potential investors don't even know why the price is as it is right now. Guldencoin also needs to cherish the potential Guldencoin users who don't read websites like these. Who are interested in the philosophy behind Guldencoin but don't have the knowledge (or time) to understand technical problems like this.

Best time to buy is now or in 2 months time just before the algo change takes place. Plenty other projects coming to keep more people coming back for more while we down our sorrows on the blockchain.

Look like you going to be right on your prediction of 2 month, very smart.
RJF
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Online since '89...
December 05, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
I have
NLG Account Balance
Confirmed   8,165.607483
Unconfirmed   0.000000


On my account I can not payout my coins I have tried manny times to contact de pool nut no answer
I'm waiting now 6 months for my coins


http://nlg.lifeforce.info this the pool


Who helps me ?



I have been mining there on and off for some time, never had a problem. Have you verified your wallet address and sucessfully completed the cashout form? If so what happens, what message do you get?
full member
Activity: 170
Merit: 100
December 05, 2014, 02:01:28 PM
Well, welcome to this lovely world then Hope! Here is your first Guldencoin wallet: GaHopexjuAgEkqn7BzREsvNrPK8s2a4Vxf
I've put in some coins for you. Maybe later you remember you got your first Guldens from "Uncle LTEX" Grin

I've sent the private key to daddy...


Congrets LTEX!!  Grin Will send 1000 happy Guldens  Grin


It's a gift from LTEX  to Fuse  Grin

Whahaha  Grin No problem. Seems I misread it. congrats Fuse! Hope it will arrive at the right address Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 393
Merit: 250
December 05, 2014, 01:36:05 PM
Well, welcome to this lovely world then Hope! Here is your first Guldencoin wallet: GaHopexjuAgEkqn7BzREsvNrPK8s2a4Vxf
I've put in some coins for you. Maybe later you remember you got your first Guldens from "Uncle LTEX" Grin

I've sent the private key to daddy...


Congrets LTEX!!  Grin Will send 1000 happy Guldens  Grin


It's a gift from LTEX  to Fuse  Grin
full member
Activity: 170
Merit: 100
December 05, 2014, 01:04:29 PM
Well, welcome to this lovely world then Hope! Here is your first Guldencoin wallet: GaHopexjuAgEkqn7BzREsvNrPK8s2a4Vxf
I've put in some coins for you. Maybe later you remember you got your first Guldens from "Uncle LTEX" Grin

I've sent the private key to daddy...


Congrets LTEX!!  Grin Will send 1000 happy Guldens  Grin
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