NA - page 404. | Bitcointalksearch.org

pijpenstelen

sr. member

Activity: 407

Merit: 250

Quote from: BioMike on October 22, 2014, 03:58:15 PM

Funny, bittrex rate shoots over 450 sat and clevermining kicks back in.

This is why I thought it would work if we let the price fall to 400 with more dedicated miners until the algo changes have been made. I know we can't manipulate the markets but I am glad the price is low for stability at the moment.

BioMike

legendary

Activity: 1658

Merit: 1001

Funny, bittrex rate shoots over 450 sat and clevermining kicks back in.

strataghyst

sr. member

Activity: 393

Merit: 250

Quote from: thsminer on October 22, 2014, 02:39:12 PM

Quote from: /GeertJohan on October 22, 2014, 04:29:29 AM

phase1
- identify the cause of the swings more than 3 and 1/3
It is limited to 3 and 1/3 diff change. But the new diff is calculated from the average diff over the previous 24 blocks. So you can't compare the diff to the previous block as displayed in the list. Please see https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1286 and line 1299 and lines 1303-1306.

- work out a solution for point 1 first
We could change it so the diff is calculated only from the diff of the previous block.. Then the diff change between individual blocks could never exceed 3x or 0.33x. But that also means the diff can go x3^3 (x27 !!!) when there are 3 lucky/fast blocks. I don't think that is a smart thing to do.
- if the fix for point 1 is outside DGW code see if DGW is acting as expected in the first place
I don't think point 1 needs to be fixed. I'm not aware of any code influencing the difficulty outside DGW. DGW is acting as it should (as it is doing in other coins), but simply can't handle these hash/sec spikes.
I would love to see some input or simulation why this happens. Till now I'm not able to pinpoint the large swings we encounter. Your right it could be the large hash swings but why does NLG have more problems with that? So the more people look at the code from start to end and posibly come with a detailed reason the better.

Why did KGW went haywire at the first launch off the coin is that already know? As thsminer said maybe this gives a direction where to look?

LTEX

legendary

Activity: 1023

Merit: 1000

ltex.nl

Quote from: 0btc on October 22, 2014, 03:02:27 PM

Quote from: BioMike on October 22, 2014, 12:52:27 PM

I would like to suggest people to not add more hashing power to guldenpool, because it approaches the 50%. Criptoe is a nice alternative.

Second, I think someone needs to weed out the dead pools on the first page.

Indeed, http://guldenpool.nl:27100 is pretty much maxed out at this point. As I told a certain friendly member of club1680, I do have another node setup at http://node2.guldenpool.nl:27100, but AFAIK it would still be feasible to perform a >50% attack as long as I have control of both daemons. If anyone wants to set up another p2pool node, I'll gladly help out!

Maybe a friendly 1680 member can setup a pool.club1680.com? Wink

0btc

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

0x0a.nl operator

Quote from: BioMike on October 22, 2014, 12:52:27 PM

I would like to suggest people to not add more hashing power to guldenpool, because it approaches the 50%. Criptoe is a nice alternative.

Second, I think someone needs to weed out the dead pools on the first page.

Indeed, http://guldenpool.nl:27100 is pretty much maxed out at this point. As I told a certain friendly member of club1680, I do have another node setup at http://node2.guldenpool.nl:27100, but AFAIK it would still be feasible to perform a >50% attack as long as I have control of both daemons. If anyone wants to set up another p2pool node, I'll gladly help out!

thsminer

sr. member

Activity: 332

Merit: 250

Quote from: /GeertJohan on October 22, 2014, 04:29:29 AM

phase1
- identify the cause of the swings more than 3 and 1/3
It is limited to 3 and 1/3 diff change. But the new diff is calculated from the average diff over the previous 24 blocks. So you can't compare the diff to the previous block as displayed in the list. Please see https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1286 and line 1299 and lines 1303-1306.

- work out a solution for point 1 first
We could change it so the diff is calculated only from the diff of the previous block.. Then the diff change between individual blocks could never exceed 3x or 0.33x. But that also means the diff can go x3^3 (x27 !!!) when there are 3 lucky/fast blocks. I don't think that is a smart thing to do.
- if the fix for point 1 is outside DGW code see if DGW is acting as expected in the first place
I don't think point 1 needs to be fixed. I'm not aware of any code influencing the difficulty outside DGW. DGW is acting as it should (as it is doing in other coins), but simply can't handle these hash/sec spikes.
I would love to see some input or simulation why this happens. Till now I'm not able to pinpoint the large swings we encounter. Your right it could be the large hash swings but why does NLG have more problems with that? So the more people look at the code from start to end and posibly come with a detailed reason the better.

phase 2
- identify the problem and descibe it properly (yeah I know it's jumppool, but whats really the undelying thing that causes the trouble)
You're right. It is good to have a verbose explanation with some examples. As long as we keep in mind that diff readjustment should work for more problems than only this one.
- work out a modification of the algo by testing it on past hashrate swings and see if it smoothens out those.
Testing is very important. We shouldn't release a new algo too fast. Placing a new algo on the existing chain doesn't give a proper indication though, as it does not influence block times and doesn't change multipool behaviour. It would be better so simulate several cases of hashrate joins/leaves. I have done this before with DGW3, but never the amounts that we currently see. This time we must simulate extreme hashrates, even multiple times more than we currently see with clevermining. I plan to release the software I used for simulations, just needs some polishing and persistency of scenario's (currently the user must enter the block times manually, each time). That way everyone can apply and test changes locally.
- test the modification thorough for vulnerabilities and flaws
Very important! I think 24Kilo can be of great help here
- implement it
This time deployment will be very smooth. We can release a new algo one week in advance with a hardcoded block on which all nodes switch algo.
That's great because this means you can also first modify DGW to act and at a later stage release a permanent - how permanent is a fix in crypto... - fix.

I really like the weighted average idea's that are being discussed here. I had the idea of weighted average in my mind, but I didn't have it worked out yet. It's great to see the discussion here, please keep it going! It is definitely influencing the code I'm writing.

Please understand that when I release the code I have so far: it's not a final version. We do this together. It will be our algorithm; created by the Guldencoin community. So the code is open for feedback and changes. This is the only way that we can fix this problem. We all have great idea's and knowledge. When we keep combining our efforts we will create the best possible algorithm.
You're very right here

Jero

hero member

Activity: 638

Merit: 500

Quote from: ny2cafuse on October 22, 2014, 02:16:11 PM

Criptoe is a NOMP based pool and HCM is a MPOS based pool. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I have run both types of pools, as well as their predecessor mmcFE, over the last year+. To put it in the simplest terms:

NOMP is more secure, but less informative. It's basically a park your miner and walk away system. You aren't getting all the bells and whistles charts and darts you get with MPOS, but you don't need a login, and your coins are sent immediately after confirming. No coins sit on the server, and therefor, they can't be lost to attack or op scams(not saying HCM scams, just saying in general).

MPOS is more informative, but more prone to vulnerabilities depending on whether the op knows what their doing. Stratum and DB vulnerabilities are higher here, but can be mitigated by using NOMP as the backend to the MPOS frontend. However, you need to have an account in most cases, which are prone to attack, and coin tends to sit on the server unclaimed or unpaid if you don't set up your payout properly.

Both systems work. It's really up to you to decide what works best for you. I will never tell people to mine on Criptoe just because I want them to. I will ask for help with hashrate if we're struggling, but I will never tell people they should or shouldn't mine with us.

It's your rig, your money, your time... do what makes you the most coin.

-Fuse

Great! My respect you have Cool

ny2cafuse

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1002

HODL for life.

Criptoe is a NOMP based pool and HCM is a MPOS based pool. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I have run both types of pools, as well as their predecessor mmcFE, over the last year+. To put it in the simplest terms:

NOMP is more secure, but less informative. It's basically a park your miner and walk away system. You aren't getting all the bells and whistles charts and darts you get with MPOS, but you don't need a login, and your coins are sent immediately after confirming. No coins sit on the server, and therefor, they can't be lost to attack or op scams(not saying HCM scams, just saying in general).

MPOS is more informative, but more prone to vulnerabilities depending on whether the op knows what their doing. Stratum and DB vulnerabilities are higher here, but can be mitigated by using NOMP as the backend to the MPOS frontend. However, you need to have an account in most cases, which are prone to attack, and coin tends to sit on the server unclaimed or unpaid if you don't set up your payout properly.

Both systems work. It's really up to you to decide what works best for you. I will never tell people to mine on Criptoe just because I want them to. I will ask for help with hashrate if we're struggling, but I will never tell people they should or shouldn't mine with us.

It's your rig, your money, your time... do what makes you the most coin.

-Fuse

Jero

hero member

Activity: 638

Merit: 500

Quote from: BioMike on October 22, 2014, 01:58:25 PM

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 01:16:31 PM

Today i rented (first time ever) a rig of 75Mh and pointed it to Criptoe. So far I see everything runs smooth and I wonder how this will run futher.
One question... how can I see how much coins I mine/or have mined so far? I am quite new to this so I know this is real newbie question.

With Criptoe this is a bit difficult. You can see how much NLG comes in to your address that you use when mining (if you use that address for criptoe only). On http://criptoe.com/tbs you can see the pending found blocks, which is the amount of blocks currently found, but which have not matured yet. With your hash rate (compared to the pool hash rate) this can give a bit of indication on how much NLG you can expect.

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 01:16:31 PM

If I like, I will point more later on to support the network. Because selling means a loss at this moment, I won't sell, just keep and buy some stuff from our merchants later on ;-)

I try to see how much I mined for the BTC that I used for renting and put a sell order (rate = BTC used/NLG yielded) on bittrex. I expect the price to go up at some point, which at that time I will get my BTC back.

Thnx! Clear answer. I look futher into it.

BioMike

legendary

Activity: 1658

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Bittenno on October 22, 2014, 01:53:03 PM

I just pointed my rig to Criptoe instead of using it on Hardcoreminers.com so I can test direct mining.

What benefit does one have when using Criptoe instead of Hardcoreminers?

If you're fine with HCM, you can stay there. I've heard people saying that they are worried about the payout of HCM (finances of the pool appear to be not so good), but I have no hard proof to back that up. Criptoe and Guldenpool are my personal favourites (I like mining where I can give just a NLG address to the miner and have everything receiving at that address).

BioMike

legendary

Activity: 1658

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 01:16:31 PM

Today i rented (first time ever) a rig of 75Mh and pointed it to Criptoe. So far I see everything runs smooth and I wonder how this will run futher.
One question... how can I see how much coins I mine/or have mined so far? I am quite new to this so I know this is real newbie question.

With Criptoe this is a bit difficult. You can see how much NLG comes in to your address that you use when mining (if you use that address for criptoe only). On http://criptoe.com/tbs you can see the pending found blocks, which is the amount of blocks currently found, but which have not matured yet. With your hash rate (compared to the pool hash rate) this can give a bit of indication on how much NLG you can expect.

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 01:16:31 PM

If I like, I will point more later on to support the network. Because selling means a loss at this moment, I won't sell, just keep and buy some stuff from our merchants later on ;-)

I try to see how much I mined for the BTC that I used for renting and put a sell order (rate = BTC used/NLG yielded) on bittrex. I expect the price to go up at some point, which at that time I will get my BTC back.

Bittenno

newbie

Activity: 27

Merit: 0

I just pointed my rig to Criptoe instead of using it on Hardcoreminers.com so I can test direct mining.

What benefit does one have when using Criptoe instead of Hardcoreminers?

By the way Biomike is right, we should get rid of the dead pools listed on all websites.

Cheers!

Bittenno

Jero

hero member

Activity: 638

Merit: 500

Today i rented (first time ever) a rig of 75Mh and pointed it to Criptoe. So far I see everything runs smooth and I wonder how this will run futher.
One question... how can I see how much coins I mine/or have mined so far? I am quite new to this so I know this is real newbie question.

If I like, I will point more later on to support the network. Because selling means a loss at this moment, I won't sell, just keep and buy some stuff from our merchants later on ;-)

LTEX

legendary

Activity: 1023

Merit: 1000

ltex.nl

Quote from: BioMike on October 22, 2014, 12:52:27 PM

I would like to suggest people to not add more hashing power to guldenpool, because it approaches the 50%. Criptoe is a nice alternative.
+1
Second, I think someone needs to weed out the dead pools on the first page.
+1

BioMike

legendary

Activity: 1658

Merit: 1001

I would like to suggest people to not add more hashing power to guldenpool, because it approaches the 50%. Criptoe is a nice alternative.

Second, I think someone needs to weed out the dead pools on the first page.

LTEX

legendary

Activity: 1023

Merit: 1000

ltex.nl

Quote from: markanth on October 22, 2014, 12:04:34 PM

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 11:54:01 AM

Any reason they stopped? Price too low? Or just changed address? Or someone asked them friendly?

Clevermining didn't stop. Maybe they reduced their hash rate towards NLG, but the increase in hashing at guldenpool is probably the big difference maker.

Some of us have been buying Hashingpower to point to guldenpool. This resulted in a stable and higher Diff. Combined with current lower rates, it is simply not profitable anymore for Clevermining to step in. This is of course a short term solution, but the nice part is, in the long run it is profitable to the ones who stepped in. Maybe if more people join in this dedicated mining group, we won't even have to worry about Clevermining at all Grin

Nevertheless, Guldencoin is really on the route to become one of the best, long term, digital currencies in the world. This also is displayed in the hard work currently done to improve the algorithm.

And then there's all the good things to come on the user- and merchant side!

Man, this coin is exciting!!!

ny2cafuse

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1002

HODL for life.

Quote from: markanth on October 22, 2014, 12:04:34 PM

Clevermining didn't stop. Maybe they reduced their hash rate towards NLG, but the increase in hashing at guldenpool is probably the big difference maker.

Nah, man. Criptoe is tearing up all those blocks Grin

-Fuse

markanth

full member

Activity: 138

Merit: 100

Quote from: Jero on October 22, 2014, 11:54:01 AM

Any reason they stopped? Price too low? Or just changed address? Or someone asked them friendly?

Clevermining didn't stop. Maybe they reduced their hash rate towards NLG, but the increase in hashing at guldenpool is probably the big difference maker.

Jero

hero member

Activity: 638

Merit: 500

Any reason they stopped? Price too low? Or just changed address? Or someone asked them friendly?

markanth

full member

Activity: 138

Merit: 100

nice work guys!

Code:

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+----------------+
| NLG blocks mined per day | longest block gap of the day | difficulty |
+---------+---------+----------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------+-----------+-------------------+-------+--------+
| date | total # | clevermining | hardcoreminers | guldenpool.nl | criptoe.com | block | gap | low | high |
+---------+---------+----------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------+-----------+-------------------+-------+--------+
| Oct 18 | 526 | 415 (78.90%) | 10 ( 1.90%) | 42 ( 7.98%) | 17 ( 3.23%) | 136145 | 179 minutes | 8 | 891 |
| Oct 19 | 479 | 396 (82.67%) | 17 ( 3.55%) | 10 ( 2.09%) | 3 ( 0.63%) | 136498 | 274 minutes | 5 | 777 |
| Oct 20 | 386 | 307 (79.53%) | 7 ( 1.81%) | 20 ( 5.18%) | 1 ( 0.26%) | 136908 | 526 minutes | 7 | 739 |
| Oct 21 | 548 | 338 (61.68%) | 17 ( 3.10%) | 117 (21.35%) | 11 ( 2.01%) | 137379 | 75 minutes | 98 | 776 |
| Oct 22 | 366 | 143 (39.07%) | 15 ( 4.10%) | 154 (42.08%) | 19 ( 5.19%) | 138076 | 20 minutes | 204 | 475 |
+---------+---------+----------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------+-----------+-------------------+-------+--------+
DGW3 implemented September 25. KGW prior
Report generated Wed Oct 22 15:56:22 2014 UTC

Topic: NA - page 404. (Read 893613 times)