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Topic: NA - page 410. (Read 893613 times)

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
October 20, 2014, 10:00:38 AM
At first there are more than two solutions so there is some preselection done.

Readjustments wont work, there is no clever way, because they always come late. How smart you design the algo when it rises and the hashrate drops dramaticaly your stuck with a high diff. Nothing can be done about that. Thats why Sathoshi took a lot of blocks to calculate the diff anyway... If you want to act fast, rejection is the only way so that would have a chance but probably other problems. Another way more elegant would be lowering the diff midstream but that would be a huge change in protocol.

Blocktime based reward looks promising to me but don't put a limit on either side. The coin is designed for 1000 NLG every 150 secs avg. So putting a limit on hard blocks would decrease the supply and those hard blocks are compensated with fast low reward blocks anyway. It also would be an incentive for miners to stay at high diff because the jackpot is rising.

I'm with thsminer on this one.  Block limits would be an effective approach.  Setting a limit on the number of blocks that can be mined in X amount of time would throw the high hashing multis of the chain.

The BTM solution is probably the easiest change to the code and coin.  I'm pretty sure that would literally be one line of code.  As far as the drawback mentioned earlier with getting stuck with periods where the hoppers drop, I don't think it would be an issue.  You're not changing the difficulty scheme, so the coin should essentially work the way it worked before.  It just takes longer for the block to mature.  That increase in time may be enough to keep the multis off the chain, and keep the chain running smooth.

As far as the coin reduction per block, I'm not sure I'm all on board with that.  What happens when the difficulty drops, and a small pool like mine pegs a block, and then gets lucky with another block almost immediately.  Reducing the block reward vs time would essentially take away the benefit of being lucky, wouldn't it?  I guess I would need to see the algorithm to make an educated decision, but in my mind I don't think it would be an ideal fix.

Either BTM or block rejection.  BTM would be an easier implementation.  Block rejection would be a more aggressive/effective fix.

-Fuse
member
Activity: 176
Merit: 10
October 20, 2014, 10:00:29 AM
over 4 hours to find a block ?

Something isn't right here

pff...i'm out...
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
@halofirebtc
October 20, 2014, 09:17:48 AM
Is there anything wrong with Nite's Gravity Well? Seen it in action for a coin I once played with, worked pretty good.

UFO coin also has nite's gravity well with some other security features maybe something to look at

Yes it does, that was the coin I was talking about.



I am reading a lot about nite's gravity well and think it's idea is first born here.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-auroracoin-tw-exploit-fix-included-552895

Maybe we should contact nite himself te help us think out a solution.

Yes, Nite's GW was born from AUR.
legendary
Activity: 1197
Merit: 1001
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 09:06:23 AM

Last 10 to go....

Edit:

Sorry, 9  to go.... Cool
hero member
Activity: 637
Merit: 500
October 20, 2014, 06:42:45 AM
update http://www.guldencoinlinks.nl/betalen.html

add: picturedesk.nl and cointronics.nl

54 merchants accept guldencoin

54 merchants is really a great achievement and shows that people are really getting behind Guldencoin. Just hope the difficulty adjustments get smooth'd out with the next changes and more focus will go onto other things from the team itself.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 06:42:18 AM
Social media project


https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/17235-de-gulden-is-weer-terug

11 left 10 left

4 days to the end
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 06:36:49 AM
update http://www.guldencoinlinks.nl/betalen.html

add: picturedesk.nl and cointronics.nl

54 merchants accept guldencoin
sr. member
Activity: 393
Merit: 250
October 20, 2014, 06:10:37 AM


I am reading a lot about nite's gravity well and think it's idea is first born here.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-auroracoin-tw-exploit-fix-included-552895

Maybe we should contact nite himself te help us think out a solution.

Already have Wink
[/quote]

Nice! Cool
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
October 20, 2014, 05:54:04 AM


I am reading a lot about nite's gravity well and think it's idea is first born here.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-auroracoin-tw-exploit-fix-included-552895

Maybe we should contact nite himself te help us think out a solution.
[/quote]

Already have Wink
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 05:51:06 AM

- work out how a block reward based on block time. e.g.: `reward = 1000 * (secsSinceLastBlock/150)` with a max of, say, 3000 (after 3x the target blocktime).


I think you can do a lot with that!

sr. member
Activity: 393
Merit: 250
October 20, 2014, 05:21:04 AM
Just to continue with what Geert has said, we will have to come up with our own solution catered towards the guldencoin blockchain. DGW works for darkcoin and Digishield works for digibyte but it doesn't mean there solution works for every other coin perfectly. Also when changing things it's not just about sorting out the block times , securtiy, stability, vulnerabilities, abuse options all need to be looked into with a fine comb.
We will have more updates this week about the plan moving forward but please continue with the discussion, we appreciate the constructive criticism because it means people care about Guldencoin being as close to perfect as humanly possible.

The good news is we have capable developers who are 100% focussed on this and a month isn't long as this is a longterm project and the crypto landscape is always changing and we will have to continually review our processes and development strategy to cater for major changes that could effect the coins network in a positive or negative way.

Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming so we can look at all possible solutions. Together we can get this right!



I am reading a lot about nite's gravity well and think it's idea is first born here.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-auroracoin-tw-exploit-fix-included-552895

Maybe we should contact nite himself te help us think out a solution.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 05:05:44 AM
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
October 20, 2014, 04:40:25 AM
I have asked  some powerful "friends from the past" to help us out here. One of them for sure will be able to fix this!
I've also asked our Club1680 members to chip in for a bounty to the one that comes up with the final and total answer to this serious issue!

My 150K is already in the pot!

Oh yeah, this is on my calendar today:



 Wink
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 04:38:35 AM
There is a new coin to be launched with the following specs. Maybe to look at this multi algorithm how that works out for them?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annone1coinupdatev1221cpr3s-algofaucet-puredicecom-820302

Stable Litecoin fork with minor enhancements.
100% Proof of Work
3 confirmations for each transaction
Total coins: 20 Million ONE in 2050
PoW Algorithm Combo: 3S (shavite, simd & skein) with a ~40% speed increase and ~15% power decrease compared to X11(AMD HD 7950)
2 minute block time
DigiShield difficulty retarget
Dificulty retarget every 2 blocks with a max difference of 5%
140 confirmations for blocks to mature
Block halving every 680.000 blocks (~2.5 year)
PoW Total blocks: 1290322
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 04:17:07 AM
Just to continue with what Geert has said, we will have to come up with our own solution catered towards the guldencoin blockchain. DGW works for darkcoin and Digishield works for digibyte but it doesn't mean there solution works for every other coin perfectly. Also when changing things it's not just about sorting out the block times , securtiy, stability, vulnerabilities, abuse options all need to be looked into with a fine comb.
We will have more updates this week about the plan moving forward but please continue with the discussion, we appreciate the constructive criticism because it means people care about Guldencoin being as close to perfect as humanly possible.

The good news is we have capable developers who are 100% focussed on this and a month isn't long as this is a longterm project and the crypto landscape is always changing and we will have to continually review our processes and development strategy to cater for major changes that could effect the coins network in a positive or negative way.

Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming so we can look at all possible solutions. Together we can get this right!

sr. member
Activity: 332
Merit: 250
October 20, 2014, 04:08:22 AM
I just sent a message to Terk asking if he can take a look at the amount of hashrate thrown at NLG.

DGW3 does better re-adjustment than KGW, but as we can see it's not good enough.
DGW3 calculates diff based on the 24 last blocks.
When there's a long blocktime, and then someone mines 1 block, then clevermining takes 23 blocks, the long blocktime block is not taken into the calculation anymore, and the diff spikes.
Now I hear you say: "why don't we increase the number of blocks taken into the DGW3 calculation". Well, I did some simulations and I believe in the end that will only affect the number of blocks clevermining gets before the diff spikes.

So we need something clever (no pun intended).

There are two methods:
- create a re-adjustment algorithm that is actually pretty smart, detecting patterns, applying penalties if a lot of blocks were mined in short time.
- work out how a block reward based on block time. e.g.: `reward = 1000 * (secsSinceLastBlock/150)` with a max of, say, 3000 (after 3x the target blocktime).

Best would be: both.

Please let me know what you think about this!
I'll work out more details this evening (CEST).

At first there are more than two solutions so there is some preselection done.

Readjustments wont work, there is no clever way, because they always come late. How smart you design the algo when it rises and the hashrate drops dramaticaly your stuck with a high diff. Nothing can be done about that. Thats why Sathoshi took a lot of blocks to calculate the diff anyway... If you want to act fast, rejection is the only way so that would have a chance but probably other problems. Another way more elegant would be lowering the diff midstream but that would be a huge change in protocol.

Blocktime based reward looks promising to me but don't put a limit on either side. The coin is designed for 1000 NLG every 150 secs avg. So putting a limit on hard blocks would decrease the supply and those hard blocks are compensated with fast low reward blocks anyway. It also would be an incentive for miners to stay at high diff because the jackpot is rising.

sr. member
Activity: 393
Merit: 250
October 20, 2014, 04:06:19 AM
I just sent a message to Terk asking if he can take a look at the amount of hashrate thrown at NLG.

DGW3 does better re-adjustment than KGW, but as we can see it's not good enough.
DGW3 calculates diff based on the 24 last blocks.
When there's a long blocktime, and then someone mines 1 block, then clevermining takes 23 blocks, the long blocktime block is not taken into the calculation anymore, and the diff spikes.
Now I hear you say: "why don't we increase the number of blocks taken into the DGW3 calculation". Well, I did some simulations and I believe in the end that will only affect the number of blocks clevermining gets before the diff spikes.

So we need something clever (no pun intended).

There are two methods:
- create a re-adjustment algorithm that is actually pretty smart, detecting patterns, applying penalties if a lot of blocks were mined in short time.
- work out how a block reward based on block time. e.g.: `reward = 1000 * (secsSinceLastBlock/150)` with a max of, say, 3000 (after 3x the target blocktime).

Best would be: both.

Please let me know what you think about this!
I'll work out more details this evening (CEST).

This does look very interesting!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2014, 03:54:35 AM
I still think a longer maturity time for newly minted blocks is a nice and simple feature.
Yes we agree and this is something we could start with.

Is this the BTM solution? That was looking good to temper multipools, but they have problems now as well as it seems. When the maturity time is too high and multipool is leaving, it takes a long time to find the next blocks when there is less total hashpower left?

From the ANN of BTM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9253396:

Buck. It's not xhash's fault.  The coins take 720 blocks to confirm and this current round of 720 has taken a few weeks.  Everybody is in the same boat.  In a day or so we will move to the next round of 720, the diff will drop and the whales and multipools will move in and 720 blocks will disappear in a few hours... Then everyone will sit back and wait for the painful process to repeat.
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