📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 197.

Bastone

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 02:26:12 PM

The OP clearly states 20Mh/s per share. You won't change it. That sure looks like a cap to me.

Then make your investment decisions based on your assumptions. The imaginary cap has been addressed several times now and I don't think anyone appreciates your trolling using a sock puppet account. As mentioned, with the current shares issued and the ordered equipment, it would be impossible not to exceed 20MH/s per share without either a shareholder motion to issue more shares, or the equipment providers falling short of their estimates.

You never answered my questions about whether your going to pocket the income from the remaining 18k shares, since your 20MH/s per share obligation is met.

Are you going to buy more equipment? Or is the rest of the IPO pure profit for you?

I'm clearly not trolling, your contract and intentions are about as clear as mud, and you won't clarify them except to say that the OP stays as it is, which means your done buying equipment and intend to pocket the rest of the IPO funds, but you don't want to say it, because no one will invest.

Bastone

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 04:37:17 AM

why don't you change the OP to state that 100% of the hashing power of the gear will be returned to the shareholders with no 20Mh/s per share cap.

I have no plans to change the OP or contract at this time. There is no cap.

The OP clearly states 20Mh/s per share. You won't change it. That sure looks like a cap to me.

Bastone

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 03:11:57 AM

So your saying you own all those unsold shares? I thought the shareholders owned this company and the equipment? Apparently they only own 7k and you own 18k?

As stated, I control them. I do not own them. Due to controlling them on behalf of the shareholder, I have an incentive to make sure they are valued highly and distributed in a way that maximizes shareholder value.

So all the funds from the sale of the 18k remaining shares will be used to purchase equipment or pay dividends to the shareholders, since they aren't your shares? You won't pocket the proceeds from the sale of the remaining shares? (Since you've met your 20Mh/s per share obligation)

If this is true, why don't you change the OP to state that 100% of the hashing power of the gear will be returned to the shareholders with no 20Mh/s per share cap, and to state that all IPO funds will be used to buy mining equipment.

Bastone

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 02:50:02 AM

So when you get your ASIC's and its over 20Mh per share, you said that you would transfer shares to a private account until the payout was 20Mh per share and use the private account to pay for electricity and buybacks.. So the time it will be over 20Mh per share is very brief. That seems to be in effect a 20Mh per share cap. Until all of the gear is received and it will be slightly over 20Mh for the full 25,000 shares.

You are making assumptions about the rate at which shares would be transferred to a private account. As the controller of the company, that makes me the single largest controller of NASTY shares at the present time. That is a rather large incentive to keep dividends high, shareholders happy, and the share price elevated.

So your saying you own all those unsold shares? I thought the shareholders owned this company and the equipment? Apparently they only own 7k and you own 18k?

Bastone

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 02:28:43 AM

I'm still completely confused as to how this works, could you please rewrite the OP to show how much you payout? Do you payout 100% of your gear to 25,000 shares (with 18k of them held by the company)? Do you payout 20Mh/s per share and keep the rest for electricity (as the OP states)?

You don't seem to understand how GLBSE works. Dividends are paid out only to the Outstanding Shares (noted on the OP). Currently there are http://bit.ly/VlU94G "Shares Outstanding." 100% of the dividends generated by the "Currently Operating" equipment (also noted on the OP) is paid to the Outstanding Shares.

So when you get your ASIC's and its over 20Mh per share, you said that you would transfer shares to a private account until the payout was 20Mh per share and use the private account to pay for electricity and buybacks.. So the time it will be over 20Mh per share is very brief. That seems to be in effect a 20Mh per share cap. Until all of the gear is received and it will be slightly over 20Mh for the full 25,000 shares.

Huh

OgNasty

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 30, 2012, 02:44:14 AM

I wish glbse let you reinvest automatically by letting you own portions of shares. Unless you get enough dividends to actually buy a new share each week you can be waiting a long time to reinvest into the company.

Own more shares. Cool

One of the biggest advantages of weekly dividend payouts is compounding your interest at a much faster rate than is available with typical investments.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

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Wat

Quote from: OgNasty on September 30, 2012, 02:19:00 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 30, 2012, 02:13:34 AM

By growth fund I meant keeping a portion of dividends to buy more equipment and growing the company. I didnt mean holding shares which is worse than just holding bitcoins. Besides, you would be better off buying back your own shares than investing in other companies.

I don't like the idea of keeping a portion of the dividends. I would like to continue to pay out 100% of the coins mined by this operation to shareholders. Each shareholder could choose to use their dividends to buy more shares on their own if they so please, thus putting this decision in their hands.

I wish glbse let you reinvest automatically by letting you own portions of shares. Unless you get enough dividends to actually buy a new share each week you can be waiting a long time to reinvest into the company.

Bastone

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 02:19:29 AM

So then the cap for dividend payments to shareholders is 20Mh/s per share. The excess will be used for electricity and buybacks.

There is no "cap" and seeing as though there are only 25,000 shares and more than 500,000MH/s currently on order, without a motion passing with a 66% 'yes' shareholder vote to issue more shares, the MH/s per share is guaranteed to exceed 20MH/s.

I'm still completely confused as to how this works, could you please rewrite the OP to show how much you payout? Do you payout 100% of your gear to 25,000 shares (with 18k of them held by the company)? Do you payout 20Mh/s per share and keep the rest for electricity (as the OP states)?

kuzetsa

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 02:19:29 AM

So then the cap for dividend payments to shareholders is 20Mh/s per share. The excess will be used for electricity and buybacks.

As I understand, no such cap exists. The company simply owns shares in itself. The rest are "outstanding shares" which pay out dividends.

Bastone

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 30, 2012, 02:08:50 AM

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:33:11 AM

How will you pay for electricity, if you pay 100% to the shareholders?

The quote below is from the thread FAQ. Basically, the way I'm planning to implement it is like this... Once we have our equipment in place and have exceeded the 20MH/s per share goal, shares still held by the company will begin being placed in a separate account, with dividends used to pay electricity costs and buy more shares on the open market. This should allow NASTY to remain free of operator costs & electricity costs, while also providing an ongoing demand for shares and not dilluting the market.

Quote from: OgNasty on June 10, 2012, 09:31:41 PM

HOW CAN YOU PROVIDE FREE ELECTRICITY?
I intend to purchase more than 20MH/s in mining equipment for each share sold. That surplus in power will provide an ongoing means to pay electricity costs for the operation.

So then the cap for dividend payments to shareholders is 20Mh/s per share. The excess will be used for electricity and buybacks.

Thanks for the information. The OP is correct then.

OgNasty

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 30, 2012, 02:13:34 AM

By growth fund I meant keeping a portion of dividends to buy more equipment and growing the company. I didnt mean holding shares which is worse than just holding bitcoins. Besides, you would be better off buying back your own shares than investing in other companies.

I don't like the idea of keeping a portion of the dividends. I would like to continue to pay out 100% of the coins mined by this operation to shareholders. Each shareholder could choose to use their dividends to buy more shares on their own if they so please, thus putting this decision in their hands.

kuzetsa

sr. member

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Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:33:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:23:43 AM

So will you pay more then 20Mh/s per share? or not?

I will pay more than 20MH/s per share if we have more than 20MH/s per share operating. I will not be dumping 18,000 shares on the market at once, so there will be a transitional period where it would be reasonable to assume that more than 20MH/s per share in dividends will be paid.

How will you pay for electricity, if you pay 100% to the shareholders?

The 7k or so shares sold since the IPO generated enough BTC capital (when converted to fiat currency) such that the company could (pre) order somewhere on the order of 2x the required mining hardware in order for the shares to all produce 20 MH/s each.

As I understand there are still another 18k shares owned by the company or something like that.

Maybe some combination of the two is how the electricity is paid for?

I can't say for certain, but I think I even saw something like that mentioned back in the first half dozen pages of this thread. I could be mistaken, but I'd rather let someone else dig it up or let OGNasty explain personally.

Edited to add:

HAHAHAHAHA it was posted above while I was typing and proofreading this long-ass post. Thanks OGNasty.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: OgNasty on September 30, 2012, 02:08:50 AM

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:33:11 AM

How will you pay for electricity, if you pay 100% to the shareholders?

The quote below is from the thread FAQ. Basically, the way I'm planning to implement it is like this... Once we have our equipment in place and have exceeded the 20MH/s per share goal, shares still held by the company will begin being placed in a separate account, with dividends used to pay electricity costs and buy more shares on the open market. This should allow NASTY to remain free of operator costs & electricity costs, while also providing an ongoing demand for shares and not dilluting the market.

Quote from: OgNasty on June 10, 2012, 09:31:41 PM

HOW CAN YOU PROVIDE FREE ELECTRICITY?
I intend to purchase more than 20MH/s in mining equipment for each share sold. That surplus in power will provide an ongoing means to pay electricity costs for the operation.

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 30, 2012, 01:47:54 AM

Have you considered implementing a growth fund for new equipment purchases to offset rising difficulty and keep a stable dividend ?

I don't see why a portfolio held within the NASTY account couldn't be established if that is something shareholders would like to have. That would put me in the position of a fund manager though, and would expose NASTY shareholders to other operations. It would most definitely require a motion and further discussion.

By growth fund I meant keeping a portion of dividends to buy more equipment and growing the company. I didnt mean holding shares which is worse than just holding bitcoins. Besides, you would be better off buying back your own shares than investing in other companies.

OgNasty

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 30, 2012, 01:47:54 AM

Have you considered implementing a growth fund for new equipment purchases to offset rising difficulty and keep a stable dividend ?

I don't see why a portfolio held within the NASTY account couldn't be established if that is something shareholders would like to have. That would put me in the position of a fund manager though, and would expose NASTY shareholders to other operations. It would most definitely require a motion and further discussion.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:23:43 AM

So will you pay more then 20Mh/s per share? or not?

I will pay more than 20MH/s per share if we have more than 20MH/s per share operating. I will not be dumping 18,000 shares on the market at once, so there will be a transitional period where it would be reasonable to assume that more than 20MH/s per share in dividends will be paid.

Have you considered implementing a growth fund for new equipment purchases to offset rising difficulty and keep a stable dividend ?

Bastone

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bastone on September 30, 2012, 01:23:43 AM

So will you pay more then 20Mh/s per share? or not?

I will pay more than 20MH/s per share if we have more than 20MH/s per share operating. I will not be dumping 18,000 shares on the market at once, so there will be a transitional period where it would be reasonable to assume that more than 20MH/s per share in dividends will be paid.

How will you pay for electricity, if you pay 100% to the shareholders?

Bastone

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 30, 2012, 01:18:46 AM

Those are the stated goals. However, the MH/s per share could increase significantly while buyers are found for the additional shares hitting the market. Dividends during this period should be extremely high due to being at the front of the line for ASIC miners, which should allow us to exploit a low difficulty, as well as a potentially higher MH/s per share while buyers are found. That is the "intrinsic bet" MoinCoin mentioned.

So will you pay more then 20Mh/s per share? or not?

OgNasty

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But did the new orders for the BASICs came out of your pocket and the company owes you?

The company doesn't owe me anything. 100% of all mining proceeds will continue being paid to shareholders.

Bastone

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 30, 2012, 01:00:03 AM

The end goal is to provide 20MH/s per share as stated in the contract. It will be require some management on my part to go from the current 1MH/s per share FPGA goal to the 20MH/s per share ASIC goal as we start massively increasing hashing power. Investor demand will ultimately determine the rate at which the MH/s per share amount is adjusted. There is no way to say exactly how many shares will be on the market when the ASICs arrive, but I will try to keep things orderly, and keep the share count down until the ASICs arrive.

So this is 20Mh/s per share, once ASIC's have arrived and 1 MH/s per share until then.

Is 20Mh/s for .37 BTC a share a good price?

OgNasty

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Agreed - OP needs an update on projected payouts (liabilities too?)

It is impossible to determine the projected payouts at this time. Difficulty, outstanding share count, & hash rate are all going to change significantly in the coming months. Trying to project exactly what our payouts will be is not something I want to speculate on. Feel free to make your own assumptions.

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