Topic: 📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 9. (Read 958946 times)

A couple of things about this comparison:
*A car is a deprecating asset. A car gives utility (the ability to quickly move from point A to point B), which over time, removes the value of said asset. Except in unusual circumstances, someone buying a car is doing so for the utility, not for the hope of it increasing in value.
*I think most reasonable people who invested in NastyFans expected to have returns in terms of BTC, not USD. This is true for all investors in mining equipment. Mining equipment is illiquid, and as such is going to generate higher than /BTC returns for people to continue to invest in mining equipment, otherwise people would simply invest in bitcoin.

I think some reflection as to why NastyFans has performed the way it has since its inception is in order. What happened to cause the price of seats to go down so much? Like cars, mining equipment is a deprecating asset because they will generate less revenue over time as the difficulty increases, however mining investors expect the mining revenue to make up for the lost value in the miners.

ok - I was unclear if the agreement allowed you to keep any portion of the revenue being generated. Are you compensated for the cost to run the miners?

as for the ROI aspect, until the seats are worth more BTC than they cost (being worth more USD is irrelevant) the ROI is negative.

It's actually the opposite.  The last vote on donation % was to increase the amount given to seats.  I also don't take anything for myself from mining rewards.  They're all sent directly to NastyFans.  I buy seats and get payouts the same as everyone else.  The fact you could even think I have taken a penny for myself from this organization when I've donated hundreds of BTC to it and paid electricity out of my pocket for nearly a decade shows the level of disinformation being pushed.

The way I'm criticized for my involvement with NastyFans, I have to wonder...  Do you guys want me to just stop mining on behalf of NastyFans?  What is your goal with these attacks?  Do you want me to stop spending my time trying to raise funds for seats and move on to other projects where I'm more appreciated?  I've already made a nearly million dollar buyback offer for anyone who wants to cash in their seats at a massive profit to their issued price.  It seems like people commenting here want to push false narratives and spread lies about me and NastyFans.  What is the goal?  Is that goal for your own petty revenge because you blame Bitcoin vendors for accepting your BTC and keeping you from getting rich, or are you trying to help NastyFans members grow this organization like they got involved to do?  Maybe if I understood the motivations behind these attacks, I could help you get some sort of satisfaction other than knowing you helped me buy back a ton of seats at well below their fair value.  If there's a better way to unlock value for NastyFans members than I have been doing without expecting things from me you wouldn't expect from all NastyFans members, I'd love to hear it.  

The question was based on an accusation you could not state a fact. 

It seems clear that Elon Musk did not take a portion of your BTC purchase to build up a BTC mining operation and offer weekly BTC returns, so again, I don't see this as the same thing.

I believe I have been stating facts.. unless that question was for Og?

ib, don't let him distract you with value vs quantity.  Different things.    


ib, can you say your current nastyfan seats are worth the 1.6 btc you paid?   Is something restricting you from stating facts?

Open letter to OgNasty

when you bought the Tesla for 6.59229 BTC did you give them BTC or did you cash out 6.59229 BTC for USD and give Tesla the USD? If so, your truck has lost no value as it is the worth the same amount of USD - give or take.

In this scenario, they gave you BTC and expect ROI in BTC, your goal was to return them BTC - the fact that BTC is worth more or even it was worth less USD is irrelevant - their BTC investment should be worth more BTC than when they gave it to you.

It sounds like since BTC has gone up in value the decision was to give the seats less BTC because it is "worth more USD" that way you could keep the majority of BTC for yourself? I could be wrong - I have not seen the books to know if 100% of the mining rewards (minus the agreed upon percentage that goes to you) has gone to the seats or not.

If the full amount that should have gone to the seats has gone to the seats, then it was a bad investment based on the actual BTC return to date. They would have been better to invest it elsewhere or to just HODL it.

A good example would be the individual who paid 1.65 BTC and has received/earned only 0.00950615 BTC in return. that is a loss of 1.64049385 BTC

Great news!  We were able to have our non-functional board repaired free of cost by one of our fellow helpful NastyFans members!  Our S17Pro is back to mining at full capacity and I'm sure this will help resale value along with higher donations if it continues to operate normally. 

S19's are in pretty high demand still.  They're currently selling for 3x the retail price and if you want to pay retail they are sold out.  If you were able to get an order in with Bitmain you would be waiting more than 6 months for delivery.  For these reasons we're still plugging away with what we have and enjoying the increased value of BTC in our savings while we wait for the right opportunity for expansion. 

You’re wrong. It’s ok that you’re wrong. I can see why you want to ignore the Tesla example as it is easier to attack me than Tesla, but you cannot say NastyFans seats have lost value without also claiming Teslas sold for BTC have also experienced the same massive loss of value. It’s an idiotic stance to take in real world practice, and it is no different here. I feel like I owe it to people to say that if you try to claim a loss on the purchase of seats while they have gained value then you will likely run into problems with your government and personal finances. It is beyond irresponsible to push the loss of value false narrative for that reason and your incorrect comments could potentially be damaging to those who believe them. It is quite obvious you are in the wrong here and I would like to request you make your own thread to push your false narratives.



“Tesla is scamming! Look what they’ve done to my BTC investment! Elon Musk is a scammer!”

Yup, you sound that stupid...

First, I do not care about your truck purchase, spare me the ego trip. And this is certainly not the same thing as taking in BTC investments for a BTC mining group which offers weekly BTC returns.

Again, I'm not talking about "any BTC project, service, or good". I'm talking about a mining organization that took investments with the intent to return weekly distributions of BTC. Thus, a "return on investment" should be measured in BTC.

---

I technically paid 1.65... but as mentioned, to try and be as fair as possible here, I cut out some of the initial purchase because I did get an asset out of it (which I have to assume is real silver), but certainly no matter which way you cut the price up, even a basic online seat at that time wouldn't be anywhere near 100%, let alone 125%.

The 'donation' was apparently going to a guy who's purpose was to get BTC into the hands of NastyFans. Now he acts like his purpose was to get USD to NastyFans. 

As I've posted before, I lost hope a while ago on ever getting my BTC back out of this, but I just can't sit here and see Og claiming "125% ROI" on something I'm a part of, and not express any concerns.

I posted this in my Tesla thread but it seems appropriate as a response here. Claiming you’ve lost money because something you purchased didn’t rise in value as much as BTC is not only wrong, it’s an attack you could make against any BTC project, service, or good, and doing so makes you an enemy to anyone engaging in any of those activities (e.g. anyone who actually uses Bitcoin). Literally everything in the world “lost value” measured in BTC. Using that as a way to attack this project is not only dishonest, it’s an insult to people who understand basic finance and an attack on all those that actually accept Bitcoin.

So you paid 1.65 BTC and received a return of 0.0095 BTC?  That would be a ROI of 0.5%, or a loss of 99% of your money
If you had not used the nastyfans service, you would have been whole. What value did that forced donation provide to you?

I also noticed the way he deflected as if you had thanked him.  Since this ponzi has not been timed out by limitations, you should file a complaint about his ICO to the SEC.  :/

Thanks. I ended up voting no. I believe any lottery run here will not end well for me, or most seat holders, and this will likely benefit only the larger seat holders.

Looks like the latest statistics are now showing:

no: 1038 (6.4%)
yes: 1891 (11.6%)

37 members voted until now. 172 members not voted yet.

Is this 1 person voting with their 1,455 seats?  Or can you let us know how many seat owners the 1,455 includes? 
(I haven't voted yet.)

It's looking like the giveaway is something people want to see happen so far.  Don't forget to vote!

The current results for the poll are below and as of now the results are looking nearly unanimous. 

no: 1
yes: 1455

1 poll opened

[terminated seats] giveaway contest sponsored by NASTY MINING

ok so not just a single gpu. and I am not complaining - just asking. I am thinking that had you expanded over time, it might have proved to be more profitable, that is all.

I can get GPU's at cost - if I wanted to. but very limited quantity. as for asics, I agree they are quite overpriced atm. I am still only at +/- 200 TH because of that price. But I also don't have 16 btc saved up. If I did, I would most likely expand. However, I use my BTC for every day expenses and providing for my family, leaves very little left over at the end of the day. But it pays the bills - theirs and mine.

You should hold BTC. Diversification is key to any portfolio.

I’m glad you appreciate the work I have done to go green and the cycling machine that was donated to help generate electricity. I look forward to continuing to run miners with renewable energy and donating the hashes to NastyFans. I’d love to see growth in other areas. 

It was posted on the 5oz minted seats thread, which I'm a part of:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56430671

I've done the analysis already on breaking out line-by-line where the costs went, including the seats, I just haven't posted it to avoid piling onto my posts in this thread.

To summarize my 1.65BTC payment, if we exclude the metal cost at the time (.41BTC), it leaves .62BTC going to NastyMining and .62BTC donation to NastyFans.
(disclaimer: I'd assume Og gets a piece of this .62 to NastyFans as well due to his ~1,200+ seats at the time, but I have no time to verify this amount and it may not be relevant here anyway.)

Out of the .62 to NastyMining, ~.27BTC in 'expenses', which included the seat "costs". At the time, 5 seats by themselves would have been sold for .102BTC.

Personally, I see .35BTC going to NastyMining.
But feel free to calculate using the raw seat price for 5 seats in 2015, .102BTC total.

Regardless of what number you want to use at this point, here is what has been received:
06-26-2015  0.00119760
08-07-2015  0.00126795
11-06-2015   0.00106160
01-08-2016  0.00102240
06-16-2016  0.00119575
06-19-2016   0.00162045
04-15-2017   0.00113970
11-19-2017   0.00100070
nothing at the coin's address in 2018 or 2019 or 2020 or 2021
Total received: 0.00950615 BTC
Ref: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1NASTY1Cerr1M7CU4RyV9yxsbq28TWkKKp

This is a 125% "ROI"  


We could all hold BTC. When did NastyMining turn into a no interest savings account?

The only major expanding that seemed to happen was relating to home improvements and exercise equipment for alternative energy sources... apparently to power all the miners we were not expanding on.