Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 174. (Read 661498 times)
April 24, 2014, 03:17:44 AM
nem is a clever scam
April 24, 2014, 03:13:40 AM
Just to clear this up. I wasn't argueing against a multipool with the "green argument" so we can market NEM as green.
I'm argueing against it because I think we shouldn't support the waste of energy regardless of how we market ourselfs.
How does this sounds:
Step 1: Hey let's build a new economy for a better future.
Step 2: Hey let's waste some energy to stabilize the currency of that new economy.
To me it sounds like a move of the old economy.
I think it'd be cool to only support coins that actually use their mining process for something like PeerCoin and GridCoin.
Trying to find prime numbers and supporting scientists in curing cancer, aids and what not seems more appealing than calculating useless hashes.
I'm argueing against it because I think we shouldn't support the waste of energy regardless of how we market ourselfs.
How does this sounds:
Step 1: Hey let's build a new economy for a better future.
Step 2: Hey let's waste some energy to stabilize the currency of that new economy.
To me it sounds like a move of the old economy.
I think it'd be cool to only support coins that actually use their mining process for something like PeerCoin and GridCoin.
Trying to find prime numbers and supporting scientists in curing cancer, aids and what not seems more appealing than calculating useless hashes.
April 24, 2014, 02:52:49 AM
I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.
Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified.
yes you have a good point there.. but if you dont think the whole green marketing thing should be a big thing then i dont see the issue in running a multipool.. the only argument against it iv seen is that it would make nem non-green.. or is there another reason you are against it..?
I've a very vague understanding of multipool, but my preference is it's probably best we don't tamper with something we've not even got out the door yet. This is just my stance - yet i'm open minded enough to reconsider my stance the more I understand how multipool works.
ok you have conventional mining of proof of work coins to generate coins from blocks which uses allot of energy but energy usage varies from coin to coin.. bitcoins uses an astonishing amount of power and really it does nothing usefull other then mining coins by doing pointless math problems..
pos doesnt mine as such... every transaction pays a small fee.. all transactions with in a certain amount of time get collected in a block which a forger the confirms the transactions same as pow but they get the transaction fees instead of creating new coins. and because you dont have to do pointless math problems its far greener and any one can forge on any computer and their wont be hashing power wars like their are in pow...
what a multipool does is mine pow coins the same as it you were mining it directly but when they mine they collect up all the coins that they have mined(normally the most profitable) and then sell those coins on an exchange and then buy the proof of stake coin which they are realy "mining" for.. in our case nem.. so basically its just mining other coins, selling them and buying the pos coin(nem)
but in our case nem isnt launched.. so what im suggesting is to run the pool mining other coins and selling for btc.. but nem is launched.. so stock pile the btc earned and keep track of how much btc each person has mined and come launch we will have a huge amount of btc buying power to drop a mega amount of buying power on nem. what i suspect will happen is the pool will get allot of notice from people and articles written because we launched a pool so early before coins launch thus bring in more people to nem. everyone who follows this sort of thing will know we are guna have mega buying power so they will want to buy in before the pool buys all its coins and sends the price through the roof!
You make a compelling argument.
As far as i understand, multipools make up the majority of hashing power across PoW. From my experience, it was the multipools that in often cases caused sudden difficulty/hashing rate spikes in new coins once the multipools adopted them. As far as I could see, multipools were both PoW's strength, but more a weakness. A PoS coin like NEM could take advantage of them, at a lesser risk.
I see what you're saying now, and honestly, i understand where you're coming from. It does sound like a decent idea to me; I would like to know what UP thinks of this along with the rest of the devs.
What i do want to ask (To anyone who has an answer); has this been done before? If so, what (PoS) coin, and what was the outcome?
If it hasn't been done before, this might be a very good idea indeed.
case and point! multipools will kill pow whether we get on board or not so why not get on board.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6354181
the only people objecting i think would be people who have invested in mining gear!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6354181
the only people objecting i think would be people who have invested in mining gear!
Yeah, i admit during the brief period i was focused on PoW related coins, the idea of multipools was an ominous one, especially in light of the 51% attacks and such.
It has been done before. I think NXT has a multipool allthough I'm not sure it's already operational.
AFAIK UP came up with the idea initially so he should be on board. No idea what the rest of the devs think.
I am not against a multipool. I am not just not sure of all the steps involved to support it.
April 24, 2014, 02:49:51 AM
Do multipools kill the coins being mined?
A large pool can jump into a small coin, raise the difficulty level really high, and then jump out. The remaining miners at that point have a hard time forming new blocks because the difficulty is so high.
Recently a trend has started that some mulitpools will not only get a lot of coins while raising the difficulty, but then they will buy out the whole buy wall, in effect "dumping" what they earned. These people then buy a POS coin that they are supporting. It hurts the regular bitcoin and litecoin clones while helping the POS coins. The POS coins can't be mined back so they aren't vulnerable. Now while this trend has started, it is still very small and hasn't had an effect yet, but if it gets large enough, it will reach a tipping point and any miner that wants to make money will have to join in the multipools mining indirectly for POS coins. So basically people that are pro POS could buy miners and then in theory ban together and kill POW coins. It hasn't happened though.
but it will.. and the sooner we kill off pow coins the better! (less energy usage)
if we dont and let them run their course.. they will be running for far longer and use allot more energy.. i see this getting really big and multipools popping up everywhere.. the coins that can will change to pos to save them selves and whats left are the larger ones like btc and ltc that cannot change.. all the multipools will be aimed at those and will slowly take them down.. and their wont be anything they can do about it.. it will take a while to get to that stage but i honestly think it is in the best interest of every pos coin to make a multipool and help crush the pow coins..
imagine the energy we would save if all pow coins were gone and only btc and ltc were left.. which will happen! more so if btc goes through another massive boom! there are only benefits to running multipools.. the only negative iv herd is that it would make nem non-green.. not true.. if anything we are helping kill off the non-green coins before they get to mine all their coins and put an end to them before they use all the power needed to mine them... which actually makes nem an eco worrior(not just green.. but fighting to put and end to non-green coins)!
you should market the pool as being an eco worrior helping to rid the crypto world of all the energy hungry coins so that ALL cryptos can be energy efficient.. the pool slogan: NemPool: putting an end to power hungry PoW for a better tomorrow. imagine what will happen when the multipools crush most the smaller coins and turn towards bitcoin.. by then they will have massive hashing power and could be able to compete with the big time btc miners! and once the big boys see what we are doing they will then see that ltc/btc are doomed due to this and jump ship over to pos(more then likely the most inovative ones at the time being nem/nxt) meaning ltc and btc value gets transfered to us! the more people that move to multipool the more power we have the more we crush pow then more miners will come and keep going until we completely distroy all pow coins! ending with nem nxt being top 1 and 2 on coin market cap!
now you tell me that isnt more green then not doing it and letting these pow coins happily mine away using insane amounts of power for years and years.. its by far in our best interest to crush them with everything we got and multipools are our most powerfull weapons! use them! or someone else will!
pat i know you are against the idea but is their any way we can sway you to the pro multipool side? we can get the pool running now and it will get allot of attention.. a coin running a pool before its even launched. that will get allot of attention.. but market it as an eco worrior.. the gains it will give to nem is a side effect!
its a win win!and pat it would look allot better if we have the devs on board with this.. the community wont look divided on the matter.. i think the support of the devs on this matter is important!
and it will show how much faith people have in the devs ability to actualy release nem and all its features! further solidifying the idea that nem is the next big thing!
I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.
Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified. (When you consider their aggressive/facist tatics of getting their political agenda across)
Environmentalists are as bad as the liberal, left wing movements who, in the UK, are becoming more and more despised the more people uncover how much they've dominated the political and corporal scene.
Anywhoo, thats another subject entirely; what I will say is though, yes, NEM is much greener, PoW is unsustainable due to it's energy requirements (This is why i invest in PoS), but i don't think pushing NEM as a "green alternative" is in any way beneficial for itself in the long run. People are sick of that argument.
Also keep in mind that the resources we spend towards supporting a multipool are resources that we can't spend doing other things
April 24, 2014, 02:36:12 AM
Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction. Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?
April 24, 2014, 02:36:00 AM
Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction. Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?
Market cap Nem will 250 M USD. 1 NEM = 0.07 USD. Price 0.07 USD.
April 24, 2014, 02:20:29 AM
Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction. Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?
April 24, 2014, 02:05:46 AM
I agree with UtopianFuture.
When thinking about the multipool, the big value factor is that we finally have a way to appeal and integrate an important part of the crypto community: the miners. In addition to that I suppose the buying price pressure would always be welcomed.
Also agree that green should definitely be changed to network efficiency.
When thinking about the multipool, the big value factor is that we finally have a way to appeal and integrate an important part of the crypto community: the miners. In addition to that I suppose the buying price pressure would always be welcomed.
Also agree that green should definitely be changed to network efficiency.
April 24, 2014, 01:51:34 AM
Google translate :
It as one of options was sounded. The first Nxt project because of the wrong distribution didn't gain public recognition and all innovations at present don't bring any result in respect of popularity of Nxt. Even not so innovative DogeCoin are more popular in tens Nxt of times that is visible on intra day turns of trade on dogs. Turnovers of DogeCoin say that the coin is in great demand than Nxt.
As I think, in addition to that earlier told how to option, the Nxt developer considered all pluses and minuses of the previous experimental coin and decided to improve in new Nem process of initial redistribution of a coin on as probably bigger number of initial participants, holders is possible. Because all redistribution took place in the first its experimental coin of Nxt somehow behind closed doors. There is no reliable and exact information to whom and how many coins of Nxt got. It is rumored that probably for the developer of 50% of coins of Nxt is available. Anybody knows nothing therefore the public and tries to avoid this coin of Nxt, with such shadowy and its not clear past where even that chief BCNext developer somewhere was missing and it turns out threw the Nxt project, i.e. the destiny биткoинa, Satoshi Nakamoto's destiny repeats. That too threw the project биткoин and went underground.
Therefore, BCNext time somewhere was missing, such point of view, as option that BCNext is UtopianFuture (under a new nickname) takes place to be.
Anyway Nem will be more open coin both in the plan кoммyнити, and in respect of initial redistribution where there is an open public document, взглянoв in which, it is possible to see nicknames of those who received coins. And besides nicknames there is a public audit that nobody has two and more shares at primary redistribution. At least all rules of public audit were completely observed. From one account it was impossible to pay two and more shares and it was impossible to send money and a crypt to acquisition of shares directly from exchangers and the exchanges. Those who before public audit bought to itself from one account or from accounts of the exchanges many share - as a result of public audit all of them were eliminated.
I consider that everything was made by rules and to carp there is nothing. The list of nicknames opened who has shares. There are transactions which can be checked easily through blockchain and which everyone were several times checked both on doubles of transaction id and on doubles of purses, etc. Public audit took enough time while everyone didn't check that everything was honest, by rules, and nobody got two and more shares.
Whether there will be at Nem the destiny similar to DogeCoin? Start, and the beginning of the auction at the largest crypto exchanges is will show. We will hope that on Nem there will be very high intra day turns which will be equal to DogeCoin turns, and full success of a coin will be if they start exceeding intra day turns of DogeCoin.
Intra day turnovers of trade of a coin is very important indicator. It characterizes on how many the coin is popular and as it is in demand among people. If intra day turnovers of a coin very low, and the total amount of coins in it is great, and the sum of coins exceeds for 1 billion, in that case there will be a smooth recession in the coin price. Lifting it won't be noted until intra day turnovers of it won't grow. Here is how intra day turnovers of trade of Nxt then I personally for myself made the decision to get rid of Nxt fell. Because recession in intra day turns of the market always is a falling omen in the price of a coin. That we also see - Nxt fell in the price and also will fall further while the trust won't return to a coin. The trust was just undermined because of the new Jean Luc developer who unclear what clients started doing experimental for Nxt that many people long couldn't understand as it now on the new works and as it now on new everything is established. At once to say no that it is so simple everything if to download - it isn't established and it is necessary to go here here: http://www.nxtclient.org, then there to pass here here: and further everything according to the instruction to establish https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,1902.0.html as there it is written. What was so difficult it is developer of the client of Nxt Jean Luc to write and explain to people? ? ? But isn't present, it and on the official site of Nxt rivets to this day in the section clients: http://www.nxtcommunity.org/nxt-chan. . 099-change-log new clients, also doesn't explain as it everything is established and even there is there no mention of how I wrote above as it everything has to be established and where it is necessary to go actually that the client to establish without thoughts everyone there and on the machine gun, specially made raspakovshchik for this purpose!
I very much hope that in Nem similar won't be, and not to happen. People will receive easy in installation and settings the client, without it everything a lasagna in any other places which even on the official site it isn't mentioned, and without a thing this clever and zauny as it becomes in Nxt that people can't originally understand and understand: As this devil's Nxt the client is established? ? ? : P
I consider as the main reason for recession of intra day turnovers of Nxt them the client. Nxt initially had a support and even strong support from outside кoммyнити, but here is how started this Jean Luc the experimental versions of the client doing, and people couldn't understand anything as it on new now becomes and both is established, and began cдыxaть on the sly and smoothly Nxt.
I think UtopianFuture will consider all these negative moments of Nxt and we will receive easier, more convenient client of Nem. Where there will be no all this eksperimentatorstvo that people enter the money, buy a crypt, and then can't remove the coins. Therefore one too clever such client made which without special knowledge and cunnings, directly, well in any way you won't establish! : P
It as one of options was sounded. The first Nxt project because of the wrong distribution didn't gain public recognition and all innovations at present don't bring any result in respect of popularity of Nxt. Even not so innovative DogeCoin are more popular in tens Nxt of times that is visible on intra day turns of trade on dogs. Turnovers of DogeCoin say that the coin is in great demand than Nxt.
As I think, in addition to that earlier told how to option, the Nxt developer considered all pluses and minuses of the previous experimental coin and decided to improve in new Nem process of initial redistribution of a coin on as probably bigger number of initial participants, holders is possible. Because all redistribution took place in the first its experimental coin of Nxt somehow behind closed doors. There is no reliable and exact information to whom and how many coins of Nxt got. It is rumored that probably for the developer of 50% of coins of Nxt is available. Anybody knows nothing therefore the public and tries to avoid this coin of Nxt, with such shadowy and its not clear past where even that chief BCNext developer somewhere was missing and it turns out threw the Nxt project, i.e. the destiny биткoинa, Satoshi Nakamoto's destiny repeats. That too threw the project биткoин and went underground.
Therefore, BCNext time somewhere was missing, such point of view, as option that BCNext is UtopianFuture (under a new nickname) takes place to be.
Anyway Nem will be more open coin both in the plan кoммyнити, and in respect of initial redistribution where there is an open public document, взглянoв in which, it is possible to see nicknames of those who received coins. And besides nicknames there is a public audit that nobody has two and more shares at primary redistribution. At least all rules of public audit were completely observed. From one account it was impossible to pay two and more shares and it was impossible to send money and a crypt to acquisition of shares directly from exchangers and the exchanges. Those who before public audit bought to itself from one account or from accounts of the exchanges many share - as a result of public audit all of them were eliminated.
I consider that everything was made by rules and to carp there is nothing. The list of nicknames opened who has shares. There are transactions which can be checked easily through blockchain and which everyone were several times checked both on doubles of transaction id and on doubles of purses, etc. Public audit took enough time while everyone didn't check that everything was honest, by rules, and nobody got two and more shares.
Whether there will be at Nem the destiny similar to DogeCoin? Start, and the beginning of the auction at the largest crypto exchanges is will show. We will hope that on Nem there will be very high intra day turns which will be equal to DogeCoin turns, and full success of a coin will be if they start exceeding intra day turns of DogeCoin.
Intra day turnovers of trade of a coin is very important indicator. It characterizes on how many the coin is popular and as it is in demand among people. If intra day turnovers of a coin very low, and the total amount of coins in it is great, and the sum of coins exceeds for 1 billion, in that case there will be a smooth recession in the coin price. Lifting it won't be noted until intra day turnovers of it won't grow. Here is how intra day turnovers of trade of Nxt then I personally for myself made the decision to get rid of Nxt fell. Because recession in intra day turns of the market always is a falling omen in the price of a coin. That we also see - Nxt fell in the price and also will fall further while the trust won't return to a coin. The trust was just undermined because of the new Jean Luc developer who unclear what clients started doing experimental for Nxt that many people long couldn't understand as it now on the new works and as it now on new everything is established. At once to say no that it is so simple everything if to download - it isn't established and it is necessary to go here here: http://www.nxtclient.org, then there to pass here here: and further everything according to the instruction to establish https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,1902.0.html as there it is written. What was so difficult it is developer of the client of Nxt Jean Luc to write and explain to people? ? ? But isn't present, it and on the official site of Nxt rivets to this day in the section clients: http://www.nxtcommunity.org/nxt-chan. . 099-change-log new clients, also doesn't explain as it everything is established and even there is there no mention of how I wrote above as it everything has to be established and where it is necessary to go actually that the client to establish without thoughts everyone there and on the machine gun, specially made raspakovshchik for this purpose!
I very much hope that in Nem similar won't be, and not to happen. People will receive easy in installation and settings the client, without it everything a lasagna in any other places which even on the official site it isn't mentioned, and without a thing this clever and zauny as it becomes in Nxt that people can't originally understand and understand: As this devil's Nxt the client is established? ? ? : P
I consider as the main reason for recession of intra day turnovers of Nxt them the client. Nxt initially had a support and even strong support from outside кoммyнити, but here is how started this Jean Luc the experimental versions of the client doing, and people couldn't understand anything as it on new now becomes and both is established, and began cдыxaть on the sly and smoothly Nxt.
I think UtopianFuture will consider all these negative moments of Nxt and we will receive easier, more convenient client of Nem. Where there will be no all this eksperimentatorstvo that people enter the money, buy a crypt, and then can't remove the coins. Therefore one too clever such client made which without special knowledge and cunnings, directly, well in any way you won't establish! : P
April 24, 2014, 01:47:01 AM
For UtopianFuture : http://mmgp.ru/showpost.php?p=6537766&postcount=125
Would you be able to translate this ?
I'd like to read it but google translate for such a long text is a recipe for disaster
This is russian forum post
April 24, 2014, 01:36:31 AM
For UtopianFuture : http://mmgp.ru/showpost.php?p=6537766&postcount=125
Would you be able to translate this ?
I'd like to read it but google translate for such a long text is a recipe for disaster
April 24, 2014, 01:31:26 AM
For UtopianFuture : http://mmgp.ru/showpost.php?p=6537766&postcount=125
April 24, 2014, 01:09:32 AM
It seems that I was late, I would like to ask what time the auction started it?
April 24, 2014, 01:02:20 AM
As a member with a non technical background most of this thread is Greek to me.
I really hope a time will come NEM will become intelligible to all. If so - NEM's future will be bright.
But at the moment no one takes care of it.
I really hope a time will come NEM will become intelligible to all. If so - NEM's future will be bright.
But at the moment no one takes care of it.
April 24, 2014, 12:01:53 AM
when the ae of nxt is done,rip just a histroy
April 23, 2014, 11:41:53 PM
Can anyone tell me what happened to Ripple? It was comfortably ahead of Litecoin, and now it has a market cap of 42 million dollars. Was there some negative news or something. I'm simply just curious.
they switched from total supply to available supply (makes more sense) in the top left corner. So its still No 3 if you sort by total supply, apparently solarcoin is the new no.2.
April 23, 2014, 11:09:47 PM
Can anyone tell me what happened to Ripple? It was comfortably ahead of Litecoin, and now it has a market cap of 42 million dollars. Was there some negative news or something. I'm simply just curious.
April 23, 2014, 11:04:03 PM
The devs should be required to escrow all funds from the auction and also waiting list funds. Can we all agree on this?
Edit: tomatocage has an escrow service we can use.
Edit: tomatocage has an escrow service we can use.
April 23, 2014, 10:03:36 PM
I am more interested in when is the auction? Also, will there be a technical update soon?
The first auction will be next weekend or sooner. I will need to give some updates before the auction. So stay tuned.
April 23, 2014, 10:00:01 PM
280k nem pledged so far in only couple hours, possible dev on board, good work so far! pm me if you want to pledge some nem towards the multipool thats in the works and let me know the amount you wish to pledge.
we can make this big but need to come together!
the devs dont have to do everything!
thanks
we can make this big but need to come together!
the devs dont have to do everything!
thanks
I'm also interested in contributing to the multipool fund, I like the initiative. I'm keeping an eye on it as it develops, but for now I'll just pm you some details.
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