NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1964.

TaunSew

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Activity: 756

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Quote from: rockethead on June 22, 2014, 09:08:27 AM

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

Well there are issues with the POW Model regarding its effects on ecology and network security but if NEM sees a stronger adoption we will see its impacts with new nodes using up resources and some clever hackers might find security issues too.

Leads me to another question :

How is POS/POI not more centralized ? Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ? Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ? I am sure there were more people grabbing a Stake in Bitcoin early than in NEM.

First, where did you get the 156 number from?

Second, what makes you think that Bitcoin is ever so secure and not subject to cabal attacks? I hope you do realise that miners in bitcoin have reached asymptotic levels and in fact is on the decline. Have a look at this. The tipping point WILL happen with the passage of time.

http://www.coindesk.com/51-attacks-real-threat-bitcoin/

I need not say more. Good luck.

Isn't there also a threat in centralized nodes? Someone like Bitpay could buy them all up and implement any change to Bitcoin they want. They can easily make Bitcoin inflationary like Dogecoin.

rockethead

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Quote from: golpher on June 22, 2014, 07:53:27 AM

What is the likely price of a NEM stake after the proper release?

Be my guess!

rockethead

legendary

Activity: 1059

Merit: 1016

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

Well there are issues with the POW Model regarding its effects on ecology and network security but if NEM sees a stronger adoption we will see its impacts with new nodes using up resources and some clever hackers might find security issues too.

Leads me to another question :

How is POS/POI not more centralized ? Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ? Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ? I am sure there were more people grabbing a Stake in Bitcoin early than in NEM.

First, where did you get the 156 number from?

Second, what makes you think that Bitcoin is ever so secure and not subject to cabal attacks? I hope you do realise that miners in bitcoin have reached asymptotic levels and in fact is on the decline. Have a look at this. The tipping point WILL happen with the passage of time.

http://www.coindesk.com/51-attacks-real-threat-bitcoin/

I need not say more. Good luck.

Tompa

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: golpher on June 22, 2014, 08:53:20 AM

Can no one give me a ballpark figure for the value of a NEM stake?

1 NEM stake is around 23000 NXT what is around $1.540

Edit: the above calculation was made when the post has been made! :-) It can change dramatically in next couple of days because of alpha.

golpher

newbie

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Can no one give me a ballpark figure for the value of a NEM stake?

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: nxtvisa on June 22, 2014, 08:41:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:29:15 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 08:18:40 AM

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 05:48:14 AM

there's something happening on trello...

Let the game begin. Cool

chance to hit the next block 10.66%

Proof of Importance rocks!

sweeeet!

To buy more NEMstakes ? to be or not to be,this a question. Huh

Perhaps the last opportunity to buy cheap as, if Alpha is very good, this is the calm before the storm.

amytheplanarshift

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Hey guys I've been following Trello for a while and I have an account on there but I'm not quite sure how I can post to the NEM board on there. Do I need to contact someone to get added? (I am a stakeholder.)

nxtvisa

sr. member

Activity: 263

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:29:15 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 08:18:40 AM

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 05:48:14 AM

there's something happening on trello...

Let the game begin. Cool

chance to hit the next block 10.66%

Proof of Importance rocks!

sweeeet!

To buy more NEMstakes ? to be or not to be,this a question. Huh

xtester

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 500

Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 08:18:40 AM

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 05:48:14 AM

there's something happening on trello...

Let the game begin. Cool

chance to hit the next block 10.66%

Proof of Importance rocks!

gimre

legendary

Activity: 866

Merit: 1002

Quote from: xtester on June 22, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 05:48:14 AM

there's something happening on trello...

Let the game begin. Cool

chance to hit the next block 10.66%

MrPortMan

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

TEZOS

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 06:53:20 AM

There is one thing that i'm asking myself.

Why would we need NEM ?

It is absolutely blowing my mind , that there are people who think NEM will be their Bitcoin Rocketstart into wealth.

Why ? Because this time there a new people as Stakeholders ? Because the System is new , developed from the ground up and with another chance for catastrophic bugs or failures ? Is there really a need for another POS Coin ?

Baffles me and makes absolutely no sense in my mind...

(I'm also asking myself why we need NXT, but that is another story for another day.)

whats the total electricity bill annually to run bitcoin miners? how much co2 does that release? how much eletronic gear goes out of date every 6 months - 1 year for the purpose of doing pointless math just to create bitcoin? how much does it cost to replace or upgrade the mining equipment?

can you implement an asset exchange into bitcoin and run it in a client? can you implement a voting system into bitcoin? a digital goods store? a multigateway so coins can be traded in a trustless manner? can you integrate any features what so ever into bitcoin with out having to do a hard fork? after 5 years, have the devs figured out a way to do blockchain pruning? can you do 1 min conformatoins with bitcoin? can you build entire mmorpg's on the bitcoin block chain? can you build entire social networks on top of the bitcoin block chain?

hhmmm.

+1

NEM is the best cryptoplatform in the world!
Games & social networks will work on NEM cryptoplatform Wink

xtester

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 500

Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.

Quote from: gimre on June 22, 2014, 05:48:14 AM

there's something happening on trello...

Let the game begin. Cool

xtester

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 500

Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.

Quote from: howi53 on June 22, 2014, 01:08:12 AM

Back to digital world from the real world (in which my son Sebastian has been accidently killed)
It's just to relativize the problems and concerns of Nemsters

We are very sorry for your loss.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

Quote from: Thingamajig on June 22, 2014, 07:32:16 AM

Quote from: Totem22 on June 22, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 06:53:20 AM

There is one thing that i'm asking myself.

Why would we need NEM ?

It is absolutely blowing my mind , that there are people who think NEM will be their Bitcoin Rocketstart into wealth.

Why ? Because this time there a new people as Stakeholders ? Because the System is new , developed from the ground up and with another chance for catastrophic bugs or failures ? Is there really a need for another POS Coin ?

Baffles me and makes absolutely no sense in my mind...

(I'm also asking myself why we need NXT, but that is another story for another day.)

Technical wise, NEM could be a competitor to Bitcoin because:

1. an improvement in a core functionality: Proof of Importance instead of Proof of Work and traditional POS algorithm.
2. improvements in features: Bitcoin has been and always be very conservative when coming to new features. There are spaces open if users move beyond the simple currency functionality and want something else with blockchain.
3. Difference in design

I think you are very smart guy but many smart guys in tech do not fully grasp the dynamics of free market and competition. This article can help

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/12/how-and-why-bitcoin-will-plummet-in-price.html

completely agree with this. that article especially; it expresses my view spot on.

Another reason im not hopeful about bitcoin is the PoW model. Anyone who thinks the bitcoin gravy train can continue on a PoW model is just kidding themselves. same for any PoW coin.

in fact, it wouldnt surprise me if bitcoins current valuation is artificial anyway. the fact that bitcoin is not only horded by a minority, but also its hashing power is too, just demonstrates how "centralized" it is and, if anything, makes it just as bad - if not worse - then FIAT, as these parties are far more anonymous to begin with.

Quote from: instacalm on June 22, 2014, 07:31:44 AM

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:27:41 AM

- Network strength , keeping the network secure is expensive , this is priced in.

Yes, you nail it, keeping the Bitcoin network secure is very expensive and energy-intensive. Keeping NXT/NEM network secure is neither expensive nor energy-intensive.

Since Bitcoin was released in early 2009 it has set the standard in the cryptocurrency field. Until today its Proof of Work mining system is the most popular and frequently used model of assigning value of digital currencies. With Bitcoin's staggering rise in popularity over the last five years its network has grown to such massive size that it has become impossible for the average user to mine and large-scale, energy-intensive mining operations have taken over, GHash.io now having accumulated 51% of all hashing power. Its energy demand and resulting real-world environmental costs lead to the critical question of whether this extremely energy-hungry system is sustainable -- while more secure and energy efficient technologies are available. In the energy-hungry world of today, Proof of Work is not a smart and sustainable choice.

Well there are issues with the POW Model regarding its effects on ecology and network security but if NEM sees a stronger adoption we will see its impacts with new nodes using up resources and some clever hackers might find security issues too.

Leads me to another question :

How is POS/POI not more centralized ? Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ? Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ? I am sure there were more people grabbing a Stake in Bitcoin early than in NEM.

How so? Satoshi himself supposedly had a million Bitcoin back in 2011 when only around 6 million had been mined (15%+). Read the Bitcointalk wealthy wallet threads. Wallets =/= unique persons. There's honestly only a few hundred people who control and dominate Bitcoin.

In contrast there is somewhere between 1500 to 2800 unique persons in NEM.. Granted the pareto principle is in effect here, supposedly a bit under 100 have dumped their stake already since they couldn't pass up $1.5K in 'effortless money'. So if NEM ever goes to the moon then these dumpers will probably be the worst critics.

instacalm

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

new nodes using up resources

Nodes use very little resources compared to mining operations and are easy to set up and maintain.

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

some clever hackers might find security issues too

Same about Bitcoin and any other open source software. Naturally issues/bugs are coming up, then recognised and fixed.

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

How is POS/POI not more centralised ?

There's no way to control and manipulate the market in a way one can (possibly) control PoW/Bitcoin.

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ?

People have the same chance to acquire PoS coins by buying, just like BTC but without requiring (now centralised) mining to secure the network and generate new coins.

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:45:49 AM

Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ?

No, as those who operate large mining operations control the network there is not much fairness(hard to define indeed) left. Not to mention Bitcoin distribution, its numbers are known to be - ironically - worse than distribution of major FIAT currencies.

I'm not talking about NEM in particular here as it has not yet launched. Please see NXT for real-world example.

Neither am I against Bitcoin, it has its place & it has founded this groundbreaking field of technology in the first place.

Totem22

newbie

Activity: 14

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Quote

Well there are issues with the POW Model regarding its effects on ecology and network security but if NEM sees a stronger adoption we will see its impacts with new nodes using up resources and some clever hackers might find security issues too.
Leads me to another question :
How is POS/POI not more centralized ? Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ? Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ? I am sure there were more people grabbing a Stake in Bitcoin early than in NEM.

There are a few more stakeholders than that, the most conservative number is at least 1000 unique users i think (even with all the sock-puppet controversy). Read the population statistics. The theory is that after the initial distribution, new users can continuously come in via exchanges and multipool. It is actually very similar to POW cost-wise but without the waste energy.

golpher

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

What is the likely price of a NEM stake after the proper release?

li_ink

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: instacalm on June 22, 2014, 07:43:37 AM

Quote from: Totem22 on June 22, 2014, 07:40:17 AM

algorithms like PoS, PoI ~~could~~ are ~~be promising in~~ cutting down the cost for security

Good point. Cool

phantastisch

legendary

Activity: 2271

Merit: 1363

Quote from: Thingamajig on June 22, 2014, 07:32:16 AM

Quote from: Totem22 on June 22, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 06:53:20 AM

There is one thing that i'm asking myself.

Why would we need NEM ?

It is absolutely blowing my mind , that there are people who think NEM will be their Bitcoin Rocketstart into wealth.

Why ? Because this time there a new people as Stakeholders ? Because the System is new , developed from the ground up and with another chance for catastrophic bugs or failures ? Is there really a need for another POS Coin ?

Baffles me and makes absolutely no sense in my mind...

(I'm also asking myself why we need NXT, but that is another story for another day.)

Technical wise, NEM could be a competitor to Bitcoin because:

1. an improvement in a core functionality: Proof of Importance instead of Proof of Work and traditional POS algorithm.
2. improvements in features: Bitcoin has been and always be very conservative when coming to new features. There are spaces open if users move beyond the simple currency functionality and want something else with blockchain.
3. Difference in design

I think you are very smart guy but many smart guys in tech do not fully grasp the dynamics of free market and competition. This article can help

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/12/how-and-why-bitcoin-will-plummet-in-price.html

completely agree with this. that article especially; it expresses my view spot on.

Another reason im not hopeful about bitcoin is the PoW model. Anyone who thinks the bitcoin gravy train can continue on a PoW model is just kidding themselves. same for any PoW coin.

in fact, it wouldnt surprise me if bitcoins current valuation is artificial anyway. the fact that bitcoin is not only horded by a minority, but also its hashing power is too, just demonstrates how "centralized" it is and, if anything, makes it just as bad - if not worse - then FIAT, as these parties are far more anonymous to begin with.

Quote from: instacalm on June 22, 2014, 07:31:44 AM

Quote from: phantastisch on June 22, 2014, 07:27:41 AM

- Network strength , keeping the network secure is expensive , this is priced in.

Yes, you nail it, keeping the Bitcoin network secure is very expensive and energy-intensive. Keeping NXT/NEM network secure is neither expensive nor energy-intensive.

Since Bitcoin was released in early 2009 it has set the standard in the cryptocurrency field. Until today its Proof of Work mining system is the most popular and frequently used model of assigning value of digital currencies. With Bitcoin's staggering rise in popularity over the last five years its network has grown to such massive size that it has become impossible for the average user to mine and large-scale, energy-intensive mining operations have taken over, GHash.io now having accumulated 51% of all hashing power. Its energy demand and resulting real-world environmental costs lead to the critical question of whether this extremely energy-hungry system is sustainable -- while more secure and energy efficient technologies are available. In the energy-hungry world of today, Proof of Work is not a smart and sustainable choice.

Well there are issues with the POW Model regarding its effects on ecology and network security but if NEM sees a stronger adoption we will see its impacts with new nodes using up resources and some clever hackers might find security issues too.

Leads me to another question :

How is POS/POI not more centralized ? Give 156 Stakeholders a Stake for small money instead of giving people the chance to get them in a continous period ? Even if the stake to claim with PoW gets smaller over time isn't this a fairer approach even if you want to reward the risk takers ? I am sure there were more people grabbing a Stake in Bitcoin early than in NEM.

instacalm

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: Totem22 on June 22, 2014, 07:40:17 AM

algorithms like PoS, PoI ~~could~~ are ~~be promising in~~ cutting down the cost for security

Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1964. (Read 2984910 times)