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Topic: New bitcoin.org Clients page - page 3. (Read 6082 times)

vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
May 01, 2012, 12:09:46 PM
#31
The bitcoind core is only "reference" because it has a vast majority right now (part of the problem). It isn't maintained by the original developers (Satoshi and Sirius).

Bitcoind still has the distinction of being the direct descendant of the client created by the original developers.  And I assert that it's "reference" because if it's not, then the Bitcoin protocol as a whole is unconscionably underdocumented.

Case in point: What happens if some other client becomes more popular, and there turns out to be a subtle difference in the implementations that result in a block chain fork?  Many of the intricacies and nuances of the Bitcoin protocol are not documented save by reference to the bitcoind code.  If the undocumented portions of the bitcoin protocol are defined not by this or any particular client as you suggest, but by the behavior of whatever happens to be the most popular client at the time, then we're in for a treat when someone creates a transaction that points out some unexpected difference, causing users of some client (such as bitcoin-QT) to suddenly create their own blockchain fork.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
May 01, 2012, 11:58:07 AM
#30
I vote for bitcoin-QT being described as the "reference" client maintained by the original developers.  This is actually an important distinction because many aspects of the Bitcoin protocol are not formally documented beyond by reference to how it is implemented in this particular client.  (The distinction could probably apply just as well to bitcoind, since the "reference" has more to do with the protocol implementation, not so much to do with the user interface.)
The bitcoind core is only "reference" because it has a vast majority right now (part of the problem). It isn't maintained by the original developers (Satoshi and Sirius). I agree it should keep a "default" status (on the front page) for now since it is the only functioning full node, but in the long run, I hope that changes.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
May 01, 2012, 11:49:01 AM
#29
I vote for bitcoin-QT being described as the "reference" client maintained by the original developers.  This is actually an important distinction because many aspects of the Bitcoin protocol are not formally documented beyond by reference to how it is implemented in this particular client.  (The distinction could probably apply just as well to bitcoind, since the "reference" has more to do with the protocol implementation, not so much to do with the user interface.)
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1010
Bitcoin Mayor of Las Vegas
May 01, 2012, 08:51:26 AM
#28
I guess it's already been decided, but I'm still going to voice my opinion for prefering Luke-jr's suggestion.

Its very easy contemplate each client's pros and cons. I don't think it's in a new bitcoiner's best interest to blindly follow recommendations. It's a complex topic with some very real financial implications if they just grab something and jump in the water without thinking about things. Having them actually think about things before they get involved is probably the best path.

A noob blindly following a recommendation to install a full blockchain client and later finding out his computer's resources aren't really compatible and having to reconsider is not the best situation. (I'm thinking specifically about third world adopters, with crappy computers or networks, that may soon be picking this up). If they were made to think about it before hand, by seeing all the different client properties relative to each other, perhaps it might make their adoption a more comfortable experience.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
May 01, 2012, 06:59:09 AM
#27

I'm not familiar with this space so I didn't add them. Best to add them after.
Why is it best to add them after ? after what by the way?

@genjix

Please include paytunia among the ewallet option even if some people are reluctant to do so because they see us as their competitors.
Bitcoin.org until now is not a self promotion tool but is meant to be a neutral source of information for the bitcoin community.
By the way, it should be localized : I would like to edit a French version of it (I know you will like the idea;o)).

Sure, can you give me a 250x200 picture, a 400 char max description and the website? Please keep the description neutral sounding and focused. I didn't put it because I don't own a phone and haven't tried Paytunia nor kept up with mobile developments Smiley Not because of any political thing.

BTW if you want to write a BitcoinMedia about it then give me an email.

Two questions: is it open-source? Does it store people's keys (wallet) locally on the device?
legendary
Activity: 1221
Merit: 1025
e-ducat.fr
May 01, 2012, 06:06:43 AM
#26

I'm not familiar with this space so I didn't add them. Best to add them after.
Why is it best to add them after ? after what by the way?

@genjix

Please include paytunia among the ewallet option even if some people are reluctant to do so because they see us as their competitors.
Bitcoin.org until now is not a self promotion tool but is meant to be a neutral source of information for the bitcoin community.
By the way, it should be localized : I would like to edit a French version of it (I know you will like the idea;o)).
legendary
Activity: 1896
Merit: 1353
May 01, 2012, 05:04:33 AM
#25
IMO the proposal by luke would better go on the wiki
donator
Activity: 674
Merit: 523
May 01, 2012, 04:55:47 AM
#24
Please make frontpage as simple as possible and as nongeeky as possible, without many options...

Maybe "MORE>>>" link should then go more into detail and provide additional options...

My mom always get scared if there is too much to choose from on the frontpage screen...
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1076
May 01, 2012, 03:59:29 AM
#23
OK, I'll try to respond to comments

I think either layout is fine. But what I have a stronger opinion on is the terminology used on that page.

When a new Bitcoin-user arrives on that page (a non-techie), he will think the following:
1) "What the hell is a "graphical interface" and how does that relate to Bitcoin"
2) "Are all these softwares equivalent? Do they serve the same purpose? Do I need one or several of them?"
3) "Which one is the official client?"

To solve these questions, I propose the following:
1) Change the "Graphical Interface" title to "Bitcoin Client Software"

Done.


Let's not list other clients until we are assured they can (a) properly handle a block chain reorg and (b) properly handle BIP16 transactions, and do not have otherwise glaring usability or security issues that prevent mainstream endorsement and use.



This is FUD. Electrum relies on libbitcoin which is BIP16 compliant and handles blockchain reorgs fine. Armory depends on bitcoind. MultiBit is based on BitCoinJ which is well tested in many clients and more than 1 year old.

FWIW, here is a picture of my original suggestion, that should IMO still be open for voting on:

I like this the best. It's similar to Wikipedia "Comparison of x" articles, which is a format people are already familiar with. It'd need some explanatory text at the top and ideally info about every feature, though.

it probably needs more explanation than all the other texts combined. strongly vote against this one.

Indeed...  IMO new users will just be bewildered by all that info.



Yeah, I agree with this. Also it's too restrictive a format for projects. There's no meaningful way to compare them really. I think name, pic, website, description is best.

Quote
Armory is security-oriented and targets the high end of the user base

I am not sure this language helps any.

"Security-oriented" means little more than that the other clients have security issues, or that the other clients are for people who don't mind their money getting stolen.  Not likely the intended message.

"High end" doesn't mean anything useful.  Is someone who does a lot of transactions "high end"?  Someone who has a lot of money and carries a Gucci purse needs their bitcoin client to be shiny?  Perhaps it has better support for multi-party transactions?  These advantages would be better conveyed with more specific language.

Descriptions aren't final. They are just temporary place-holders. People would submit their own after. This is just pedantry.

Why not have both?  The easy to read one on top.  Luke's version underneath.

Redundant.

Great!

I agree with comments. Dont call it graphical user interface.
It has to be a text for everyone.

Changed this to 'Bitcoin Client Software'

FWIW, here is a picture of my original suggestion, that should IMO still be open for voting on:

Why is Paytunia not listed as an ewallet ? It's secure and operated by payment software professionals with over 20 years combined experience.
For most new non-technical users, ewallets are going to be the easiest option.
ewallets enable thin mobile clients. Paytunia on android is one of the most reliable mobile client, without the need for the user to backup embedded keys.

Bitcoin brings about a new freedom (freedom of operating one's own downloaded wallet) but it does not remove an existing freedom (freedom of choosing a service provider when it makes sense, like for mobile use).

I'm not familiar with this space so I didn't add them. Best to add them after.
legendary
Activity: 1221
Merit: 1025
e-ducat.fr
May 01, 2012, 03:52:56 AM
#22
FWIW, here is a picture of my original suggestion, that should IMO still be open for voting on:

Why is Paytunia not listed as an ewallet ? It's secure and operated by payment software professionals with over 20 years combined experience.
For most new non-technical users, ewallets are going to be the easiest option.
ewallets enable thin mobile clients. Paytunia on android is one of the most reliable mobile client, without the need for the user to backup embedded keys.

Bitcoin brings about a new freedom (freedom of operating one's own downloaded wallet) but it does not remove an existing freedom (freedom of choosing a service provider when it makes sense, like for mobile use).
hero member
Activity: 523
Merit: 500
May 01, 2012, 02:35:12 AM
#21
Great!

I agree with comments. Dont call it graphical user interface.
It has to be a text for everyone.

I like Luke JR suggestion but it should be on another page such as "comparison table" or something and needs some explainations.
The installer time 2hours, should maybe be called something else.

Sound like it takes 2 hours to install.

I also think the official clients should have a mark such as

Bitcoin QT

"official client"

There must be Android and Iphone clients such as Bitcoin spinner and others.
I see them as cruzial to get Bitcoin popular.
People allways carry their phones and they are super easy to use.


legendary
Activity: 1304
Merit: 1015
April 30, 2012, 11:53:03 PM
#20
Why not have both?  The easy to read one on top.  Luke's version underneath.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
April 30, 2012, 08:29:02 PM
#19
Quote
Armory is security-oriented and targets the high end of the user base

I am not sure this language helps any.

"Security-oriented" means little more than that the other clients have security issues, or that the other clients are for people who don't mind their money getting stolen.  Not likely the intended message.

"High end" doesn't mean anything useful.  Is someone who does a lot of transactions "high end"?  Someone who has a lot of money and carries a Gucci purse needs their bitcoin client to be shiny?  Perhaps it has better support for multi-party transactions?  These advantages would be better conveyed with more specific language.
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1000
My money; Our Bitcoin.
April 30, 2012, 08:21:26 PM
#18
- i very much agree with erik's wording suggestions (and personally, picked the vertical option).

- i agree with jeff about vetting clients' security/trustworthiness/buginess very carefully first.

- luke's version needs to be killed with fire reserved for more technical, wikipedia-type articles.

I think it would be great for augmenting the first page presented here. It could be behind a link such as "Click here for a comprehensive comparison of these clients". No reason to stick with only one or the other.

+1
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
April 30, 2012, 08:06:20 PM
#17
Can we do this after 1.0 ?

ok, 2015 sounds good too, i guess....
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
April 30, 2012, 07:40:06 PM
#16
Can we do this after 1.0 ?
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
April 30, 2012, 07:27:15 PM
#15
I think it would be great for augmenting the first page presented here. It could be behind a link such as "Click here for a comprehensive comparison of these clients". No reason to stick with only one or the other.
I also like the Luke-Jr proposal, but as rjk said it should be better to have it on a second link.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
April 30, 2012, 07:05:53 PM
#14
- i very much agree with erik's wording suggestions (and personally, picked the vertical option).

- i agree with jeff about vetting clients' security/trustworthiness/buginess very carefully first.

- luke's version needs to be killed with fire reserved for more technical, wikipedia-type articles.

I think it would be great for augmenting the first page presented here. It could be behind a link such as "Click here for a comprehensive comparison of these clients". No reason to stick with only one or the other.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
April 30, 2012, 06:57:53 PM
#13
- i very much agree with erik's wording suggestions (and personally, picked the vertical option).

- i agree with jeff about vetting clients' security/trustworthiness/buginess very carefully first.

- luke's version needs to be killed with fire reserved for more technical, wikipedia-type articles.
REF
hero member
Activity: 529
Merit: 500
April 30, 2012, 06:53:38 PM
#12
FWIW, here is a picture of my original suggestion, that should IMO still be open for voting on:
I like it but I like the OP too.

Luke-Jr's chart is still too confusing for a non-techie. Once the client page is reached there should be an option to view the full details of every client which would lead to luke-jr's tables.
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