Topic: New York State Rockland County Bans Unvaccinted Kids From All Public Places - page 3. (Read 1009 times)

Free speech exists to talk about the fringe subjects in the first place. Many want to simply silence anything controversial. This is a very bad idea, and will lead to very big problems if you allow people to silence one another.

“I am going to continue to take a sledghammer to bad ideas regardless of who's feefees it hurts because the world desperately needs people like me to do so.”


WoW! (And I don’t mean wow in the happy Shibe sense) I mean “wow” you actually believe yourself?
                                                                       You’ve got a lot to say about other people’s “feefees”: while you are sensitive AF.

The world doesn’t desperately need people like you, there are more than enough caustic flame wars happening on the internet right now.
No, I don’t like the way you “communicate” you just keep running your mouth (clicking away on your keyboard)

Meanwhile in the real world:
I’ll take advantage of bitcointalk’s “chill effect”.

^^^ The issue of controlled immigration is already addressed (USA).

Consider that about one third of USA land is uninhabited. Also, consider that big cities show us that small cities could easily contain more population. Actually, there is the capability of the USA to hold many times the numbers of people that it contains. All one need do is look at the population that Bangladesh and India support.

The issue of uncontrolled immigration doesn't have much to do with the idea of greater population. Some of what it really has to do with is:
1. The style of living of the current population;
2. Maintaining control of the existing population by not bloating it beyond controllable numbers (slavery maintenance);
3. Fear of what might happen if the population is allowed to increase rapidly. Regarding over-the-border aliens, all we need do is look at the history of the USA allowing Hispanic peoples up over the border in the past.

The courts are set in place to handle the injury done by anyone, including illegals. If we have many more people doing injury, the courts can easily be expanded to handle more cases. If immigrants do injury, they can be forced into slave labor in the prisons as punishment. When this happens, immigrants won't want to come in any longer, or they will become law abiding citizens - remember, the country has room to hold many more people.

Virtually all the talk about controlling immigration has to do with the fact that the people don't know how to properly use the court system. If they did, they would use the courts when necessary, both on immigrants who did harm, and also on government officials who did them harm.

Which government officials are doing them harm? The ones who are taking away their right to travel on public lands without having anything other than hearsay as their reasoning.

Which hearsay? The hearsay that unvaccinated people are a danger to the rest of the people, or even to vaccinated people. All of it is talk. There are no studies. In fact, the fact that the vaccinated people are scared of the unvaccinated, shows that vaccinations are causing derangement-by-vaccinations, so that the vaccinated have needless fear of the unvaccinated.

The ban shows that it is the vaccinations, themselves, that are causing the ban to exist in the first place. Vaccinations are hazardous to all people... some immediately (autism in kids), and some later when they become fearful of nothing (because their brains are caused to act inefficiently by the vaccines). Or does anyone have double-blind test results that contradict this?

And I prefer to have a debate without the bullshit and dancing around peoples emotions because they can't handle facts. So tell me, if I am regurgitating political punditry, and there is no current political conversation being had anywhere right now that addresses immigration issues, what exactly am I regurgitating from? I am sorry your world view is limited to what those that own the media pre-approved for plebeian discussion, but that is not demonstrative of there being no legitimate discussion to be had. These are serious issues that sad little people who worry about feelings more than they do issues that can cause great physical suffering run away from.

You lack any logical argument so you need to fall back on character attacks, assumptions, and accusations. You don't know shit about me or why that sig is there, so save your breath. Or have a logic based debate where you don't rely on all that lazy bullshit and perhaps I will become just a teeny bit less caustic. Either way I have no need to be liked by or need approval from anyone so if you don't like the way I communicate don't interact with me. I am going to continue to take a sledghammer to bad ideas regardless of who's feefees it hurts because the world desperately needs people like me to do so.

The issue of uncontrolled immigration MUST be addressed, if it is not there will be no USA as we know it to speak of within the next 10 years because it will become the USSA, and some people would love that, which is why the real cause of these outbreaks must be obfuscated at all costs.

Techshare,
I prefer to have conversations and make an effort to talk to people online the same way I would in real life.
Can't imagine standing in front of someone spouting off the way you do for too long.

Sometimes you have an interesting point of view, this post isn't one of those times...it's some regurgitated Alex Jones BS: not interested in that conversation.
The Rotary example wasn't antidotal.
You don't have debates; you have these pre-formed diatribes you want to have made up from the current political punditry.
There is no current political conversation being had anywhere right now that actually addresses immigration issues I'm not going to get into some non-sensical argument online over it.
You've got something to say about Muslims, how the Mexican Catholics are going to vote, on and on...
How many Muslims and Mexican Catholics do you actually know? I don't mean "know of" ... I mean people that matter to you.
Your signature in all caps is all anyone needs to know about you, you behave badly and complain about being treated badly.

"the Fabians trying to take over our nation are oh so fond of." <---see that's funny
Like when you compared socialism to a cocaine high  <---truly brilliant; I liked the analogy the first time I read in an article, although admittedly I appreciated your guttural version just a little more.

To me there have been too many records of contiguous diseases in the world already and I support the government restrictions of unvaccinated kids from public places in other to prevent spread of contiguous diseases. It better for us to prevent it from happening then looking for solutions after the harm have been done and I don't see it as an abuse of right of any kid.

Great debate as usual.

OK

Yes, I brought up immigration, and? I brought it up because it is the real cause of these outbreaks but everyone is so afraid of being politically incorrect everyone denies it even when the numbers clearly support this premise. The tiny minority of "antivaxxers" are simply being used as a scapegoat, a distraction, and another incremental infringement of human rights that the Fabians trying to take over our nation are oh so fond of.

I suppose it is just a coincidence that xenophobia is a synonym of racism eh? No of course you didn't call me racist, you just used an interchangeable word with racism to label me. I don't care what you identify as, you are still spouting leftist Marxist rhetoric regardless if you know enough to recognize this or not. Most Socialists, Marxists, and Communists like to think they are some thing else anyway because that is how they work, via re-branding, deception, and infiltration, and it will always "be different this time". Unfortunately people are usually too ignorant of political theory, psychology, and history to know they are spouting Marxist ideologies.

I didn't bring up immigration but it seems to be an argument you want to have: even if it's only with yourself...have at it.
Didn't call you a racist and thought what I said was very direct and clear.
I'm not a leftist or on the right and for sure have --zero- claim to moral superiority.

Your own words are the only things on this forum capable of character attacks against you.

So because I want the laws of my nation to be enforced, I don't want the people here to be infected with diseases, and I don't want all of our social systems to collapse under the weight of uncontrolled illegal immigration, and have our rights stripped I am a xenophobe? This continual autistic screeching from the left about racism, xenophobia, and victim status is so frequently and arbitrarily exploited it has literally become meaningless and made it that much harder to identify ACTUAL racists. Good job.

You have no argument so instead you are forced to resort to character attacks to pretend you have a point and pretend you are in a position of moral superiority. What about the immigrants already here who don't want their opportunities taken by this tidal wave of people from the 3rd world? Fuck them too right? Again, much like SaltySpitoon you are relying on the strawman of anti-vaccination in order to argue against the premise of preserving human and constitutional rights in favor of removing informed consent for medical treatment. I am not against vaccination, I am against COMPULSORY vaccination.

The right to travel is a right that everyone has, especially a parent with his property... his child.

File claims in a courts of record - particularly Federal District Court, Corpus Juris Secundum, volume 25, section 334 - against the men/women who are not allowing your right of travel with your property. File against them as wrongdoers. Select at least half of the jury as those who understand vaccines as you do. Let the accused provide the safety docs for the vaccines, as well as the tests that prove the vaccines are beneficial... with proof that the vaccines that have seemed to work in the past, didn't simply work through timing. And that the disease were in remission, already.

As long as you keep filing complaints, and keep on using attorneys, you will fail... except if the court doesn't want you to fail this time, for some nefarious reason.

Karl Lentz... listen to the first 20 episodes - http://jurorinlaw.com/talkshoe/klentz/.

If you don't care for the floods of accusations and if you're not a xenophobe then stop acting like a xenophobe.



This whole Anti-Vax Vaxx issue has so many aspects to it:
How much freedom do we want to give up for safety?
How much should we interfere with a parents choice? Even when that choice puts someone else and even their own child at risk.
I am vaccinated for things in countries I may never see, my kid was vaxxed, my pets are always vaxxed- I personally believe in being vaccinated.
Why parents can't trust news outlets or even their doctors to make well informed decisions?  <---that is a problem all on its own right now

About 15 years ago Rotary almost hit a wall with the Polio vaccination. People didn't want to be vaccinated anymore or let their children be vaccinated.
A lot of it was mis-information combined with the fact that Polio was at that point almost eradicated so not only were people afraid of the vaccine, or rumors of what was really happening but many had also not experienced the effects of an outbreak so they either didn't believe it existed or understand how devastating the effects  Polio could be.

Blame it on virtue-signalling policy makers far removed from reality being generous with other people's money.

I'd be blunt but I really don't care if adults want to maim themselves with preventable diseases. Want measles? Go ahead, enjoy the rashes and the 1 year weakened immune system. Polio? Whatever floats your boat.

The problem is they're endangering people who can't take the vaccines, like very small childen and the elderly, who also happen to be more susceptible to complications. These people are relying on herd immunity.

You have it right, I definitely see something going on here. This is a preliminary test of the government to see where in the equation the population sits at currently. I also expect this will not be the last of this tightening of the noose around the necks of unsuspecting citizens (until it is too late). From the cited zerohedge article: " What Rockland County is doing is unconscionable, and they should be completely and utterly ashamed of themselves." [highlights mine]. We must stay vigilant and informative - it is a crucial time in history. Thank you brother for bringing this up.

No, the problem is we are having a clash of ideologies, not a debate. Your own words are religion to you, and mine are the same to me. I'm not interested in your points about immigration, I brought that up a while ago so you wouldn't waste your time. I'd have to swim through countless hours of research to justify whether your sources are valid or not, what they actually mean, and whether it is worth communicating my thoughts on them. I'd be happy to do that if this was a thread about border security and influx of disease, but as I stated before, I know nothing about any of that. If that was the topic of the thread, I wouldn't have replied, as I have nothing to add to that conversation. I'm not dismissing your claim that immigrant carriers of diseases are of greater number than domestic unvaccinated citizens, because I don't know otherwise. You are not a minority group because of an individual belief on whether or not you should be vaccinated. Citing the 6th grade statistics definition of minority versus the anthropology definition of minority is dishonest.

I cannot engage you in a debate because I cannot understand your point of view. I really don't mean this as a personal attack, but to me, it sounds like you live in a self entitled fairy land, where you can do absolutely anything you want with no regard for others. I understand this is probably not the case, but from my perspective thats what your words mean. My absolute main point throughout the entire discussion which you keep trying to drag away from "County in New York bans unvaccinated from public spaces" to, "We aren't as bad as this other group!" is that you cannot force people to accept your life choices. You make a choice, other people have a reaction, you don't get to scream outrage because other people aren't as understanding of what you consider a good idea. If your point is that the threat is being overblown, sure you might be right! That doesn't change anything, your rights are not being taken from you until someone is holding you down and injecting you. People are just saying I don't want to live with you.

Everything you describe as false equivalencies and incoherent arguments makes absolute perfect sense to me, I'd assume in the same way your argument makes perfect sense to you, and absolutely no sense to me. You don't debate people who have different ideologies as you, because they aren't formed from misunderstanding but perception.
I'm not trying to take some philosophical high ground, I'm just stating that we are both wasting our time.

I do not think that people are physically able to take responsibility for the actions of their choice to not be vaccinated. That is why it is a problem at the social level rather than just a matter of individual responsibility. I have zero problem with unvaccinated people living the way they want, but just don't be surprised if your only neighbors are also unvaccinated neighbors, and when the question is asking 1,000 people to move elsewhere or asking 1, its not really a hard to answer. Set your own house on fire if you'd like, but the situation is different if you live in an apartment complex.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me as public policy.

I would mention that the medical issues with unfiltered, unfettered illegal immigrants goes far beyond this. Docs here are having to deal now with vast numbers of tropical diseases they have zero experience with, various types of parasites.

It's also true that we're setting up two parallel systems, one which is lax (and free) for the immigrants and another which is strict (and expensive) for the citizens.