Topic: New York State Rockland County Bans Unvaccinted Kids From All Public Places - page 4. (Read 992 times)

If I say that I also support unvaccinated illegal immigrants staying out of the same spaces as unvaccinated U.S citizens, does that help? I'm not "afraid" of infection, statistically it'll never happen to me, but its an absolutely real possibility. I'm not pretending that every single unvaccinated child will catch the plague, but all it takes is one to screw over a lot of people. The same could happen with immigrants as a source of contagion, but that doesn't mean we ignore the pinhole until we've shored up everything else. The problem is that with a single case that occurs, who foots the bill? Who is held responsible, and makes everything right?

Its not media, its thousands of years of human history that have taught us diseases are bad. Telling me to shut up and deal with you doing whatever you want is dismissive in itself, what about my right to not catch your diseases? Now you are stripping me, and using your minority defense to make your point infallible. Anti vaxers are not a minority group, they are just reckless. The point I keep trying to stress, you don't have to get vaccinated. Just don't expect everyone to respect your decision. I don't have to bathe, and if I don't bathe for a few years, I don't get the right to get pissed off when they kick me off the subway. If you don't give a shit about your community, you aren't welcome in your community.

My only point is that you only get to live exactly how you want, with whatever you perceive as your rights, if you live on your own. Don't expect that you can force your bullshit on others, any more than I can force mine on you. That doesn't mean we have to live harmoniously as neighbors however, and a community can tell me to leave for not bathing, and they can tell you to leave for being unvaccinated. A homeowners association can tell you to leave for not having the right color doors, your recourse is to not live in that homeowners association if you don't want to abide by their rules.

We obviously don't care much about each other's opinions even after making our claims. Thats cool, we nor our opinions will likely never effect each other in any way. I'm alright with watching it play out. Shoot me a pm with I told you so when it all works out in the end.

That's cute. How convenient you simply can just skip over this entire topic and not even discuss it because "I don't know enough". I love the additional hypocritical touch as you cast my point as fear mongering, but yours as completely logical when we are talking about the same result of the spread of infectious disease. I guess your fear mongering has more credibility does it?

As far as Mexico's vaccination rates, first of all you know very well Mexico is not the only source nation for illegal immigrants, nor are they even the majority source any more. People from all over the world cross illegally via our Southern border, also increasingly from Asian nations where infection rates are also very high. Furthermore it is well established that the rates of infectious disease are in fact substantially higher in South America than North America. I know you are smart enough to know these things, so I can only assume you are being disingenuous at this point. I also find it interesting that the areas that are having the most outbreaks are also in or geographically close to "sanctuary" cities which would naturally act as an inductive force for illegal immigrants to congregate. Here are some related references:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/images/trends-measles-cases.png

Hmm... 2014... I wonder what happened in 2014...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/320/cpsprodpb/174D0/production/_105204459_border-nc.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_American_immigration_crisis
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/29/measles-outbreaks-cdc/9718129/

Interesting... the rate of measles infections spiked along with the flood of immigration. Curious we just had a large surge of illegal immigration and suddenly the rate of measles infections is again increasing isn't it?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-outbreaks/more-than-2000-migrants-quarantined-in-u-s-detention-centers-due-to-disease-outbreaks-idUSKBN1QR0EW
and what is this? Thousands in quarantine? Those seem like some pretty high rates of infection. I wonder how many that they didn't catch got through...

Of course this is all just fear mongering and we should just get over it an give up what few rights we have left for our "safety" right? Pay no attention to the thousands of disease carrying illegal immigrants behind the curtain.

Do you know why people are against vaccination and scare of it? Because of ignorance. I have read an article about this before.

People were influenced not to get vaccinated or doesn't let their kids to be vaccinated because of ignorance.
Humans are scared of the things they can't understand. For example, "chlorine". Chlorine is a very fatal type of chemical and everyone knows it. But 96% of human doesn't even know that the salts that they use for their food every day is containing "chlorine". Chlorine is one of the vital chemicals in vaccines and this is a fact.

People are scared of a vaccine because they are not familiar with the chemicals within the vaccines. Scientific names are really scary.

I don't know enough about the actual non fearmongering statistics regarding illegal immigration, and am not in a position to respond. I'd be happy to point out the CDC's statics that seem to conclude that Mexico has a higher vaccination rate than the U.S, but most of that data is for children, and I have not validated the legitimacy of their data.

I would agree with you if the tiny majority demanding bodily autonomy were absolutely isolated, and had no risk of spreading diseases that they obtained by choice to those that did not make the same choice. I support the choice not to be vaccinated, I do not support the choice to put others at risk because of it though.

Consider the choice to stop bathing. No one can force a person to bathe, but you may find out that you are no longer welcome in public places. Why is that understandable, but when a health risk is at stake, its oppressing a minority group? Again, its all fine and good as long as your choices only effect you when they effect others, it is not acceptable.

I am not ignoring anything. Again, as in every other time I bring this issue up you avoid responding to the directly related impact of uncontrolled illegal immigration. When dealing with mass medical issues, they use a process called "triage" which is designed to prioritize medical treatment based on the severity of the condition of the patients. Now if there is a group X which needs to be addressed but is in the minority, and a group Y who is in the majority and more severe, it makes no sense to treat group X before addressing the circumstances directly causing the issues of group Y.

I argue that this tiny minority of people only demanding bodily autonomy are simply being used as the scapegoats to cover up for the disease that uncontrolled immigration from the 3rd world with substandard sanitation and healthcare as well as higher infection rates of transmissible diseases. Of course the synthesis of this scapegoating is advancing the continual incremental conditioning of people to losing their rights to everything, including their own bodies.

No one has a right to compromise public safety. Saying that threat X statistically will claim 1,000 lives vs threat Y will statistically claim 100 doesn't mean we can just ignore threat Y. We could save far more lives ignoring nearly all hot-button issues combined, and focusing on proper nutrition, but that doesn't mean there is no point in anything besides nutrition.

This topic isn't about people in Rockland County being forcibly strapped to chairs and injected full of chemicals, its about them being told, you aren't welcome here because you are a threat to public safety. Those that have enjoyed their decades of lack of crippling diseases should change, just because others are willing to take the risk? You don't have to be forced to put anything inside your body if you don't want to, just don't feel indignation when others tell you they don't want to come in contact with you.

Owning a snotty tissue with measles virus on it will get you sent to prison for a while, why is having the child that produces those snotty tissues acceptable?


This isn't vaccination related, its travel related, but check out the SARS outbreak in Toronto in the early 2000s. It didn't affect hundreds of people, but it shut the city down pretty well. The doctors that didn't quit were quarantined along with those they came in contact with. They don't really want little Jimmy going to the hospital if he comes down with something that could kill the other patients with weakened immune systems, and quarantine is awful expensive. 

Yeah, why would you compare threats when you can just let the lesser threat serve as a scapegoat for the more severe threat right? All it will cost is your freedom for some temporary safety. The threat of losing human rights is far more real and significant. I don't know if you have noticed, but this stripping of rights has become a global trend, but as long as they have scary excuses its A-OK right?

THESIS - ANTITHESIS - SYNTHESIS

I would absolutely say that Antivaxers have the right to do as they wish, if they are willing to agree to deal with any consequences as a result of their choice. Thats not going to happen though. I'm not going to try to compare threats, just because one threat has a higher total amount of damage as a possibility, doesn't mean we should disregard the others. Talking about dangerous precedents, do you know the human rights you lose during a federal isolation order by the CDC? You are imposing that on others by choosing not to get vaccinated. Yes, I understand that not everyone that doesn't get vaccinated will contract all of the diseases, but the possibility is real and not insignificant.

Your rights end when they spill over and infringe on others, thats just sort of how human civilization works. You don't get to claim minority rights, when they are harming the majority or anyone else.

It is literally about that choice for some people. Kind of you to summarily dismiss the reality of the minority. After all, it is not like we live in a constitutional republic where the rights of the minority are protected by the constitution right? Do you really think this tiny minority of people who refuse to vaccinate for whatever reason are more of a threat than the thousands flooding in from our Southern border every month?

I find it interesting a lot of the same people cheering for the loss of individual rights in the name of temporary safety are also cheering for open borders. Of course when you point this out, instantly come the floods of accusations of racism and xenophobia, because of course infectious diseases care what race you are right? At what point does this obsession with taking the rights of others to provide temporary safety end? Is this not setting a dangerous precedent ripe for abuse in the very near future?

Vaccines work by introducing a dead virus that allow your body to create antibodies. In the case that you come in contact with the live virus in the future, your body already has the antibodies necessary to fight it off before it gets the chance to proliferate. That doesn't mean you can't get sick with a disease if you have a vaccine for it, it typically just means that you'll be able to fight it off more easily before it gets the chance to develop. If you have ever gotten the flu after getting a flu shot, you'll probably notice its like a cold, not that bad, but it still sucks. That doesn't mean you aren't contagious though.

I agree that people should have the choice to be vaccinated or not, but that also means they should understand that others may dislike their choice and not choose to just respect it. Nudists live in their own separate communities because they'd get arrested for walking around naked in public elsewhere. If you enjoy chewing gum, maybe avoid Singapore. If you are an avid gun collector, and enjoy shooting, maybe avoid living in Boston.

Its not really that touchy of a subject on the surface, it becomes an upsetting subject when we get to the step past it. Suppose everyone has the right to choose whether they get vaccinated, the next step is what to do with those that do get sick, and thats a humanitarian can of worms.

The whole vax thing is a touchy subject and I think people should have the choice, but what's the issue with people not being vaccinated? Surely these diseases would only effect people who haven't been vaccinated anyway? If you've been vaccinated then what's to worry about? The only people then endanger our themselves and others who haven't been immunized, but that would be their fault if that ever happened.

I don’t think this is so much about freedom but is more about public safety.

It needs to be noted that vaccines are absolutely safe and the antivaxxers rely on disinformation and propaganda. There have been many studies over a long time that confirm this safety.

Some children however are not healthy enough to receive certain vaccines and as such cannot receive them. If children who can receive the vaccines don’t, then those who cannot are being put at risk.

Right, that was sort of my point, no one has any objection to telling a specific group with infectious diseases, sorry you are a danger to public health, and are being relocated against your will. In this case, they aren't saying, alright we are shipping you off to an island, but, sorry you are a danger to public health, and can't stay here.

Compare the situation where someone is infected with a dangerous disease, versus someone who is healthy and carrying a vial containing the disease. One is a bio hazard that will get a SWAT/CDC team surrounding you, and the other is acceptable? People would be outraged if government officials ran into a house, killed, and cremated a disease carrier to prevent spread, but thats what was done in the past... We got around that with vaccinations and advances in medical science, but if people make a choice to disregard the measures in place to prevent a disease that requires those kinds of measures, you can't get angry when they decide that rather than having to deal with preventing disease, they'll just politely ask you to leave.

In my country we shipped off lepers to a far-away island so they don't endanger the population. After we managed to eradicate the diseases the island was decommissioned (the facilities are maintained as some sort of museum).

To be fair it was easier back then to just load people into ships without complaints - heard there used to be a separate island for prostitutes.

I dont see why not. Its not about whether its a choice or not, its a matter of public risk. You have the right to do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't infringe on others. The argument can be made that people that could become carriers for dangerous infectious diseases are a risk to others.

You don't have to be vaccinated, you can just move elsewhere. I can't build a reactor where I'm at, but I could move somewhere where I could potentially obtain a permit to do so.

Whats your take on lepers?

Sorry but building a nuclear reactor is not equivalent to a choice between bodily autonomy and freedom of movement. They are purposely building a very dangerous precedent to desensitize people to these kinds of actions.

^^^ Everything depends on the jury. But someone has to bring the case before the jury in the right way. If done right, since the medical doesn't have any safety studies, not only can the vaccine patrol be stopped, but the perpetrators can be fined.

I'have always admired the US healthcare system. Everyone knows that it is full of shit but no one can do anything with it. The lobbyism of pharma companies is something unbelievable.
My friend tried to buy some contact lenses in US and faced that he need to get an assignment (or however it called) from doctor for it. And he had to pay the doctor 5 times more than lense cost just to get 1 paper. And that happened because some retard didn't use his lense properly and lost his sight. This happens in like 0.00001% cases but the issue was heavily lobbied and people now should pay for that bullshit.

It is pretty much the same thing with vaccination. Pure lobbyism.