Nexus - Pure SHA3 + CPU/GPU + nPoS + 15 Active Innovations + More to Come - page 182.

pdogg147

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Advancing Liberty Through Blockchain

Quote from: macorcina on November 18, 2015, 08:04:40 AM

if community like this pos system, that fine. If someone have 10 mil coins for them this is perfect pos, for all others go ahead and babysitting wallets for peanuts

Hi macorcina,

As tokyopotato and Viz mentioned above we are proposing a solution to extend the length of time before trust keys expire. So the concerns of the Community are being heard and addressed. We appreciate Community feedback. I understand and share your concern on the trust key expiration as I was away for a long weekend and was also concerned that my trust key would expire if my PC shutdown. I was okay with a 3 day expiration but what Viz proposes regarding the expiration being a ratio based on the length of time you have had your trust key is very fair. Also, the interest rewards are proportional, so whether you have a small number or larger number of coins you get the same interest rate. I would like to point out that we care about holders small and large and understand that a small amount of coins may be quite an investment for some folks. We also agree that more users on the network is better. Please keep in mind that larger holders that are actively staking are supporting the network too and also helping the economy by keeping the coins off the market. This also helps smaller holders on some level and for some of the larger holders it is also quite an investment.

Thanks,

pdogg147

macorcina

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if community like this pos system, that fine. If someone have 10 mil coins for them this is perfect pos, for all others go ahead and babysitting wallets for peanuts

AliMan

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 18, 2015, 04:30:08 AM

That was my assumption as well, but it's always good to verify rather than assume at least in my opinion

Thank You,
Viz.

Viz, you can see how long since this coin has been released. You also know how many chances we've had for mining, or buying low. Not sure how much it's worth it, just to put a few extra coins in the pocket.

macorcina

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i don't have turbo miner for myself, i can only use simple miner like everyone else...

merc84

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 18, 2015, 04:30:08 AM

That was my assumption as well, but it's always good to verify rather than assume at least in my opinion

Thank You,
Viz.

In this case i was happy to make that assumption as it didn't include me lol.

Videlicet

legendary

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Creator of Nexus http://nexus.io

That was my assumption as well, but it's always good to verify rather than assume at least in my opinion

Thank You,
Viz.

merc84

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 18, 2015, 02:07:33 AM

Quote from: AliMan on November 17, 2015, 11:43:41 PM

I gotta say, all I can smell is a lot of greed.

In what respects, and to whom are you directing your comment?

Thanks You,
Viz.

I assume he means macorcina...

Videlicet

legendary

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Creator of Nexus http://nexus.io

Quote from: AliMan on November 17, 2015, 11:43:41 PM

I gotta say, all I can smell is a lot of greed.

In what respects, and to whom are you directing your comment?

Thanks You,
Viz.

AliMan

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I gotta say, all I can smell is a lot of greed.

merc84

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Quote from: macorcina on November 17, 2015, 12:53:14 PM

Quote from: yampi on November 17, 2015, 09:20:53 AM

When coin recycling goes into effect, more users will take interest in Nexus.
Increasing rewards won't solve anything.

I speak about distributions existing coin emissions, between mining thru mining with cpu, gpu and mining with pos.
everything is reward. if you mining on CPU chanel, and find block reward is some amount of coins.
If you staking after some time reward is block with coins.

So you are suggesting to change the distribution of reward between cpu/gpu and pos, however some time ago we had this discussion, where i pointed out the relative cost and reward for gpu and cpu mining vs the relative cost and reward of Pos mining. Cpu and gpu mining are much more expensive therefore it is logical that they receive the larger distribution of the rewards. Also the emission from cpu/gpu mining can be precisely controlled however emission from pos is much less reliable.

macorcina

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Quote from: yampi on November 17, 2015, 09:20:53 AM

When coin recycling goes into effect, more users will take interest in Nexus.
Increasing rewards won't solve anything.

I speak about distributions existing coin emissions, between mining thru mining with cpu, gpu and mining with pos.
everything is reward. if you mining on CPU chanel, and find block reward is some amount of coins.
If you staking after some time reward is block with coins.

yampi

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When coin recycling goes into effect, more users will take interest in Nexus.
Increasing rewards won't solve anything.

Namsbreh

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 01:43:16 AM

Yeah it is way too short, what I've been thinking is actually having the trust key expire after the trust is lost, so if you have more trust, your key will be able to be held longer without blocks rather than a fixed day.
An example could be your key has been active for 1 month, it expires in 3 days, active for 3 months expires in 9 days, 6 months, 18 days, so forth. What do you guys think?

Thank You,
Viz.

The reason this has been ongoing is because I haven't settled on a satisfactory solution until now regarding balancing security and usability. So with this new proposal those with more trust will have more time they can wait before their key expires with not staking, but on the other hand, you lose trust and interest for not staking, but not down to 0.5, just down to the levels of trust in your key. So keeping a key offline will slowly degrade its trust until it becomes expired. This means that more trust == more time before expiration, almost like a reverse process of building trust that comes when you stake, where you lose trust when you don't stake from the levels of trust you already have established.

Last note, how about a trust key reactivation on new update which means, your node will be able to use an expired key that was created before update time lock if you produce a block within 24 hours of the new update. This can revive your lost trust keys, especially the ones that had higher interest rates if you stake with a 2.0.1 node. Sound Good?

Sounds very good, thank you.

macorcina

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 04:36:19 AM

As demand increases so does market capitalization which therefore increases reward as per value without flooding the market with more coins. If you flood market with coins to get new users, new users dump these profits in the market reducing the price, which reduces reward. Your model works against itself here my friend, though I do see your logic in increasing reward to bring more users into the market, I just disagree that flooding the network with more coins is the proper way to do it.

Thank You,
Viz.

what is difference to make new coin in cpu, gpu or in wallet ?
This is new coin.
current supply + 1 coin.
when is new coin in network at this moment is new disbalance, of supply and demand. this is inflation.
if in this moment demand increase by 1 coin, then price will stay. If in this momet is no demand for new coin price will go down.

at this moment your model flooding market with tons of coins by mining, and we discuss about 0.1 % of coins from wallet

My proposal is different approach. To stimulate lot of people to run wallets, and balance between mining and staking. And limitations for big holders.
this will have more influence on and attract more users.

Videlicet

legendary

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Creator of Nexus http://nexus.io

As demand increases so does market capitalization which therefore increases reward as per value without flooding the market with more coins. If you flood market with coins to get new users, new users dump these profits in the market reducing the price, which reduces reward. Your model works against itself here my friend, though I do see your logic in increasing reward to bring more users into the market, I just disagree that flooding the network with more coins is the proper way to do it.

Thank You,
Viz.

macorcina

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 04:02:52 AM

You miss a pivotal piece of economics, supply and demand. More supply generally reduces demand, as you can see lower prices is reflected if more coins are produced while the demand does not increase to supplement the new supply. This is unfortunately the general consensus, so human perceptions is greatly influenced by these two figures.

Thank You,
Viz.

difference is supply and demand, is inflation. that's right.
buth demand depence of human emotion not of numbers.
number is in mathematic only number.
1 , 1 mil . this is number.
human perceptions of numbers is different.
speciality in economics.
to make demand you need , more users. more user you get if they have reward.
demand is based on believe, and reward
inflation is primarily lost confidence in something. coins, people ....

merc84

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Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 01:43:16 AM

Yeah it is way too short, what I've been thinking is actually having the trust key expire after the trust is lost, so if you have more trust, your key will be able to be held longer without blocks rather than a fixed day.
An example could be your key has been active for 1 month, it expires in 3 days, active for 3 months expires in 9 days, 6 months, 18 days, so forth. What do you guys think?

Thank You,
Viz.

The reason this has been ongoing is because I haven't settled on a satisfactory solution until now regarding balancing security and usability. So with this new proposal those with more trust will have more time they can wait before their key expires with not staking, but on the other hand, you lose trust and interest for not staking, but not down to 0.5, just down to the levels of trust in your key. So keeping a key offline will slowly degrade its trust until it becomes expired. This means that more trust == more time before expiration, almost like a reverse process of building trust that comes when you stake, where you lose trust when you don't stake from the levels of trust you already have established.

Last note, how about a trust key reactivation on new update which means, your node will be able to use an expired key that was created before update time lock if you produce a block within 24 hours of the new update. This can revive your lost trust keys, especially the ones that had higher interest rates if you stake with a 2.0.1 node. Sound Good?

This sounds fair those with more trust should be given a bigger grace period. Also reactivation sounds like good idea, wouldn't seem fair if those who have been staking since nPoS launch would lose their interest rate.

Quote from: macorcina on November 17, 2015, 03:34:19 AM

Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 03:22:43 AM

Fixed amount will create massive inflation,

Thank You,
Viz.

.

every new coin in network, generate inflation. does not matter if its come from CPU, GPU, or wallet. This is new coin in system.

I don't know about coding, but you obviously learn about economics from wikipedia.

number of coins is only number.
Human perceptions of this number is different.
purchasing power it only matter . At this moment purchasing power of nero is 350 sat,

purchasing power dependence of human, and believe.
look numbers of supply DOGE, DGB, BTC, LTC, ........
primary function of coins is to reward. Reward for work and goods.
and exchange with work and goods with other people
inflation is disproportion of number of coins, and human belief of purchasing power of this number.

I think you miss the point viz has made, if trust reward is fixed then large holders can simply split their wallet into multiple smaller wallets and earn more than they otherwise could staking all coins in a single wallet. This would create more coins than intended hence more inflation. Also there is no need to aim insults at viz, I do not know what education you have in economics but ur comment is uncalled for.

Videlicet

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Creator of Nexus http://nexus.io

You miss a pivotal piece of economics, supply and demand. More supply generally reduces demand, as you can see lower prices is reflected if more coins are produced while the demand does not increase to supplement the new supply. This is unfortunately the general consensus, so human perceptions is greatly influenced by these two figures.

Thank You,
Viz.

macorcina

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Activity: 466

Merit: 250

Quote from: Videlicet on November 17, 2015, 03:22:43 AM

Fixed amount will create massive inflation,

Thank You,
Viz.

.

every new coin in network, generate inflation. does not matter if its come from CPU, GPU, or wallet. This is new coin in system.

I don't know about coding, but you obviously learn about economics from wikipedia.

number of coins is only number.
Human perceptions of this number is different.
purchasing power it only matter . At this moment purchasing power of nero is 350 sat,

purchasing power dependence of human, and believe.
look numbers of supply DOGE, DGB, BTC, LTC, ........
primary function of coins is to reward. Reward for work and goods.
and exchange with work and goods with other people
inflation is disproportion of number of coins, and human belief of purchasing power of this number.
biggest inflation in this case is made by developer, and developer attitude.

Videlicet

legendary

Activity: 868

Merit: 1058

Creator of Nexus http://nexus.io

Fixed amount will create massive inflation, and reduce the cost to produce large amounts of Niro without having to purchase them. Interest rate building on trust helps to mitigate this, where cost is in time and amount purchased. Mining trust keys will work similar to that with larger rewards up to the fractional maximum based on your trust which puts cost in electricity and time to mint the Niro. Otherwise we open the doors for cunning manipulators to generate large amounts of Niro and flood the market bringing harm to everyone, which does not level the playing field but rather pushes wealth distribution into those that know how to game the system.

Thank You,
Viz.

Loading time is an issue with BerkleeDB and hard drive read speed. This can be resolved with the LLD and also expansion of the trust network to allow nodes that don't need to sync, and also, getting the current network best block through the trust network to continue mining while the database loads the blockchain to verify that the trusted best block that was voted and agreed by trust nodes is in fact a valid top of the chain. Or in other words full nodes will load from the trust network and verify that trust by loading the chain from their database, light nodes will rely completely on the trust network without independent verification and storage of the chain. Example light nodes could be mobile wallets, full nodes would be trust nodes where the trust network can speed up their boot especially as the blockchain grows in size.

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